The real culprit of Elk decline

[cb1989]

Liberal garbage.

I don't understand why everything needs to be labeled as completely one thing or another. "If they are blaming anything but predators, they must be denying the impact of predators." Black and white is easy to understand, but its not the right answer. In that article they are simply saying increased human traffic stresses animals. Which is common sense. The point of the article is that non-consumptive users have an impact as well. If anything, someone acknowledging that hikers, mtn bikers, and selfie stick-ers are having an impact too should be viewed as a good thing? Those people historically think their hands are clean just because they aren't bloody.

It's not saying predator management isn't an issue, it is simply speaking to one specific issue among many. Nothing is completely one thing or another. It can be wolves, increased human pressure, poaching, loss of habitat, etc all at the same time. In fact, it is. And that's why the issue is so challenging. Seems like these days we are all so worked up about our opinions that anything that even smells like opposition is written off as false/biased/secret agenda. And that completely shuts down the debate and compromise that actually gets things accomplished. Not everyone who holds a view different than yours has some secret agenda. Maybe what is so threatening about it is that you're worried they might be right? Thinking about everything in black and white is a foolish way to live.

[idaho guy]

Liberal garbage.

I don't understand why everything needs to be labeled as completely one thing or another. "If they are blaming anything but predators, they must be denying the impact of predators." Black and white is easy to understand, but its not the right answer. In that article they are simply saying increased human traffic stresses animals. Which is common sense. The point of the article is that non-consumptive users have an impact as well. If anything, someone acknowledging that hikers, mtn bikers, and selfie stick-ers are having an impact too should be viewed as a good thing? Those people historically think their hands are clean just because they aren't bloody.

It's not saying predator management isn't an issue, it is simply speaking to one specific issue among many. Nothing is completely one thing or another. It can be wolves, increased human pressure, poaching, loss of habitat, etc all at the same time. In fact, it is. And that's why the issue is so challenging. Seems like these days we are all so worked up about our opinions that anything that even smells like opposition is written off as false/biased/secret agenda. And that completely shuts down the debate and compromise that actually gets things accomplished. Not everyone who holds a view different than yours has some secret agenda. Maybe what is so threatening about it is that you're worried they might be right? Thinking about everything in black and white is a foolish way to live.

   

That’s very well said and I agree with a lot of what you just said with a few exceptions
I have no problem that the study is blaming hikers and bikers for a change  and no doubt there is truth that human traffic disturbs wildlife. Nature is not some super fragile environment where a guy doing anything at all will create total chaos either . I have watched moose, elk and deer fight in person and they are tough! I also witness mostly the after effect of what wolves and lions do every year. I have watched herds of elk barely walk through 4 feet of snow. Nature is not gentle and wildlife is incredibly tough to survive at all regardless of what we do. I am in the woods 2-3 days per week lion hunting all winter and those animals are tough!My main problem was with posts proclaiming man is the great problem of all wildlife and wild places. My point is humans called hunters have restored and increased all kinds of game. The North American wildlife model has worked amazingly well for a century. Looking at non hunters for once in this study is refreshing but it ties into another common theme I don’t like and that is the theory humans doing anything in the woods is negative. Humans have always been part of the big cycle and we belong out there too. Unfortunately some people have lived in the city so long they view the woods as some place people don’t belong at all. My point is humans are part of nature we belong out there and we can improve things. The North American wildlife model has 100 years of proven results. Again most of these studies have a common theme that humans just shouldn’t be in the woods and that’s not true. I don’t know if this study had an agenda or not but I think we have Way bigger issues. My main issue was posters saying humans are wildlife’s 1 problem. We can be a problem but we have also been more often the solution.

[Mudman]

Liberal garbage.

I don't understand why everything needs to be labeled as completely one thing or another. "If they are blaming anything but predators, they must be denying the impact of predators." Black and white is easy to understand, but its not the right answer. In that article they are simply saying increased human traffic stresses animals. Which is common sense. The point of the article is that non-consumptive users have an impact as well. If anything, someone acknowledging that hikers, mtn bikers, and selfie stick-ers are having an impact too should be viewed as a good thing? Those people historically think their hands are clean just because they aren't bloody.

It's not saying predator management isn't an issue, it is simply speaking to one specific issue among many. Nothing is completely one thing or another. It can be wolves, increased human pressure, poaching, loss of habitat, etc all at the same time. In fact, it is. And that's why the issue is so challenging. Seems like these days we are all so worked up about our opinions that anything that even smells like opposition is written off as false/biased/secret agenda. And that completely shuts down the debate and compromise that actually gets things accomplished. Not everyone who holds a view different than yours has some secret agenda. Maybe what is so threatening about it is that you're worried they might be right? Thinking about everything in black and white is a foolish way to live.

Liberalism works better than old school common sense.  Just look at California for an example to our future. Not me.  Its still garbage in all forms, agendas and action.  Article states some basic common sense every outdoorsman show already know and then uses it as tool to promote conservation which is a fancy term for control of lands and its use to promote their liberal agenda.  Which results in most getting the shaft.  Just look at Thurston county and the pocket gopher for a small scale example of liberal junk science and theft of peoples land use rights.   Conservation, junk science and abuse of endangered animal legislation our the tools of use.  Spotted owls bring back memories as well.  Sorry but I will stick to "Liberal Garbage" and not waste my energy trying to debate with idiots hell bent on their agendas.  In my experience we always manage to lose those "debates" in Wa.  I would rather fight and stand up while not giving them the acknowledgement of consideration of opinion.  I no longer trust or respect those points of view.  Been lied and manipulated one to many times.

[Bango skank]

The real culprits.
 

[pianoman9701]

The real culprits.
 

Since wolves are not an established predator in CO, they're not one of the factors in the study area.

[Mudman]

True but they will be likely soon.  Why doesn't any one consider the elk have simply moved?  What proof of their death exists?  Why do they not consider bear cat polulations are high?  My Auto shop teacher's first lesson to us was "Statistics are the tools of liars!".  They often don't tell the entire story.

[idaho guy]

True but they will be likely soon.  Why doesn't any one consider the elk have simply moved?  What proof of their death exists?  Why do they not consider bear cat polulations are high?  My Auto shop teacher's first lesson to us was "Statistics are the tools of liars!".  They often don't tell the entire story.

  I saw a bear and a lion in the videos?l I think Colorado has plenty of those but I agree the elk might have just moved! I have seen that all the time in the woods a herd moves from one drainage to the next one over the next year. wolves will probably end up in Colorado also