209 primers in WA. Cant believe no one wants them?

[bobcat]

So if you have tried both and don't see any advantage why would you be in favor of making an inline illegal?

Only because I feel it would be more of a primitive weapon hunt, and there would be a lot less people doing it. Since the inlines became popular it seems everybody is wanting to switch to muzzleloader season, just because of the theoretical advantage that the inline rifles provide.

[M_ray]

But you said yourself you didn't see an advantage and you would switch back! Wich is my point exactly!!! if you don't have the aide of 209,scope,jacketed bullets and max loads ther is no advantage and an inline is just the same as a flinlock with the ignition in a different spot!

[Ray]

Where's the popcorn. I am not a front stuffer but exactly how is an inline the same as a flint lock? Just asking. I don't like debating with bobcat because he's always got pretty good points that I almost always end up agreeing with.

[bobcat]

Right but most people think inlines are superior to sidelocks, so in the last few years tons of people have decided to go out and purchase one and switch to muzzleloader hunting. I think people get caught up in all the hype on tv and hunting magazines about the inline muzzleloaders. When I started muzzleloader hunting 25 years ago, very few people were into it. Now it seems everybody wants to switch over, for the longer season and supposedly less people in the woods. So not only have I been contemplating selling my inline and going back to the sidelock, I'm also seriously considering quitting muzzleloader hunting altogether, and hunting rifle season instead, because muzzleloader seasons are no longer providing a less crowded hunting experience.

[M_ray]

Where's the popcorn. I am not a front stuffer but exactly how is an inline the same as a flint lock? Just asking. I don't like debating with bobcat because he's always got pretty good points that I almost always end up agreeing with.

But you said yourself you didn't see an advantage and you would switch back! Wich is my point exactly!!! if you don't have the aide of 209,scope,jacketed bullets and max loads ther is no advantage and an inline is just the same as a flinlock with the ignition in a different spot!

Read my post again Ray and you'll get your answer! The point is that allthough not exactly the same ... without 209 primers a scope, jacketed bullets and max 150 grn loads you have essentially the same weapon with the ignition in a different spot. With the types of powder these days the inline would fire a bit faster without the delay but as far as down range goes an inline is still a limited range weapon with a max range of 120-130 yards if you are good and 100 for the average person. Now I do agree with points that Bobcat makes

Right but most people think inlines are superior to sidelocks, so in the last few years tons of people have decided to go out and purchase one and switch to muzzleloader hunting.

Which is the point I've made to you above and

I think people get caught up in all the hype on tv and hunting magazines about the inline muzzleloaders.

Which also makes the same point above! People see what these guys back east are achiving with their muzzleloaders and what the componies are adverstising with guy's like Micheal Waddel in pouring down rain like he has a modern rifle and the uneducated Washington hunter that has never muzzleloaded runs out and thinks he is going to do the same thing, until he learns that more than half of what makes up the midwestern muzzloader is not leagal here in WA!!! I worked with a guy that went out a few years ago and bought a Remington disc muzzy when they first came out  He had no clue that disc's were illeagal in WA. So he wasted his money and never hunted the muzzy season. I agree with most of what bobcat is saying it was just a question if there is not much of an advantage why go back to the sidelock? The powders you can use in your inline are way easier to clean for sure so I would'nt personally go back!

on this point -

Now it seems everybody wants to switch over, for the longer season and supposedly less people in the woods.

Again if people are doing this they are uneducated because the season was only extended by a couple of days on the previous 6 day Deer and Elk season. That's right guy's Deer and Elk were together for a 6 day season then it was all over with a few token late hunt units thrown in that were either 99% private land or wich held no animals. Then you could hunt Western WA and get a late hunt where again by the time the late hunt comes around most animals have their bullet proof undies on and are on private lands and the others that are not are just a needle in the haystack and sooo thick it's difficult to get a shot. Do your homework before getting into muzzy hunting the season is short, now having said that Bobcat one thing to keep in mind is that the increase you are seeing during the muzzy season may be multi-season tag holders!!!

[Ray]

I thought flint lock was ignited by flint. Not by a primer. 

[Gobble]

Right but most people think inlines are superior to sidelocks, so in the last few years tons of people have decided to go out and purchase one and switch to muzzleloader hunting. I think people get caught up in all the hype on tv and hunting magazines about the inline muzzleloaders. When I started muzzleloader hunting 25 years ago, very few people were into it. Now it seems everybody wants to switch over, for the longer season and supposedly less people in the woods. So not only have I been contemplating selling my inline and going back to the sidelock, I'm also seriously considering quitting muzzleloader hunting altogether, and hunting rifle season instead, because muzzleloader seasons are no longer providing a less crowded hunting experience.

Exactly why I ended up switching to Bow back in the mid Ninties. Now that I have the Multi season deer tag the Lyman .54 cal. sidelock is going to get the dust knocked off of it. I'm stoked to be able to use it again. 

[bobcat]

I agree with most of what bobcat is saying it was just a question if there is not much of an advantage why go back to the sidelock? The powders you can use in your inline are way easier to clean for sure so I would'nt personally go back!

I'm curious about this statement. What are the powders that can be used in an inline that can't be used in a sidelock   I've never heard of such a thing. Other than the Savage inline that can use smokeless powder, but they aren't legal in this state.

[CP]

I know a lot of people that have tried muzzleloader hunting because of extra hunting opportunities.  Not so much in this state, (in most states ML season is an extra season, it’s not either modern or ML, it’s both).   In any event most people give up on ML hunting when they discover the work, expense and mess involved, even when scopes and 209 primers are allowed.  It looks easy until you try it.  I guess that’s why states like Mississippi now allow large bore single shot cartridge rifles for their “primitive arm” seasons.

[M_ray]

I agree with most of what bobcat is saying it was just a question if there is not much of an advantage why go back to the sidelock? The powders you can use in your inline are way easier to clean for sure so I would'nt personally go back!

I'm curious about this statement. What are the powders that can be used in an inline that can't be used in a sidelock   I've never heard of such a thing. Other than the Savage inline that can use smokeless powder, but they aren't legal in this state.

Sorry for that confusion I was reffering mostly to the fact that the old traditional guys won't use the more modern powders once they have a seasoned barrel with the same old powder that they have been using for 20 years ... most have not switched. For sure you can and I know some have but I guess I meant personally if I have the same range with a inline I like the fact that my cap is somewhat protected from falling off in the brush and not on the side of my gun.

[bobcat]

I like my sidelock because it doesn't take any tools to take it apart to clean it, like my Black Diamond. I've found the sidelock is much simpler to clean. Only nice thing about the inline is that you can see down the bore and see when it really is clean.

[M_ray]

I like my sidelock because it doesn't take any tools to take it apart to clean it, like my Black Diamond. I've found the sidelock is much simpler to clean. Only nice thing about the inline is that you can see down the bore and see when it really is clean.

Good point I didn't think about not needing tools I hate having to carry extra tools in my pack in case I have to take it apart and clean out!

[M_ray]

I thought flint lock was ignited by flint. Not by a primer. 

Yes Ray you are right, I was under the impression and focused on Bobcats refence to a sidelock that uses a #11 cap and not a Flintlockas you stated! My compareasin would be to a sidlock say similar to this one
http://www.bghi.us/index.php?x=gpr
not a flintlock as in the pic you posted sorry for that.

[MagKarl]

To some folks, myself included, what you carry and hopefully kill with is an important part of the hunt.  When I first got interested in muzzleloading, I thought one of the 150 grain inlines with swappable nipples for different ignition types seemed like the right way to go.  After more research I thought a Lyman Deerstalker sidelock at 1:48 twist for balls or bullets and good sights, swivels, etc. seemed better and more traditional.  I kept reading and discovered there is a huge following for more traditional muzzleloading of more historically accurate guns and people actually kill game with patched round balls.  I finally settled on a Lyman Great Plains caplock kit and shoot real Goex black powder and patched round balls.  I killed a nice WT with it last fall and that kill was one of my most satisfying hunts to date.  I love it, it's just plain fun to shoot.  Now I'm shopping for parts to build a flintlock rifle from scratch.  I'll buy a lock, barrel, and stock blank and build it myself.  The more I learn about muzzleloading, the more primitive I want to go.  I can't be alone in that pursuit.  The bottom line is 209's don't interest me in the least.     

[Ray]

I thought flint lock was ignited by flint. Not by a primer. 

Yes Ray you are right, I was under the impression and focused on Bobcats refence to a sidelock that uses a #11 cap and not a Flintlockas you stated! My compareasin would be to a sidlock say similar to this one
http://www.bghi.us/index.php?x=gpr
not a flintlock as in the pic you posted sorry for that.

Ok. I don't really know the big differences between the primers. Is the 209 a great advantage over the #11? If so can someone explain to an ignoramus why?