Feral Pigs!

[NumaJohn]

Hello, all.

FYI, here's some disturbing news about feral pigs in the U.S. and Canada: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/16/science/feral-pigs-canada-texas.html.

If there's already a thread on this topic, my apologies for the duplication.

John

[pianoman9701]

There are a couple of inaccuracies and some questionable information, but overall, this is a big problem nationwide. I wasn't aware of the problem on our northern border. Build The Wall! Hogzilla was raised and wasn't a feral hog. I'd find it hard to believe that anyone is planting pigs in the wild to increase hunting opportunity, although some people are really stupid. It just seems unlikely. The Canada part of this report is tough to take. We should definitely be addressing that with their government if we aren't already.

[Rob]

There are a couple of inaccuracies and some questionable information, but overall, this is a big problem nationwide.

Questionable info from the NYT?  Get out!

[Stein]

Texas plants feral pigs all the time for hunting opportunity, I wouldn't be surprised if other places did it as well.

[WAcoyotehunter]

Texas plants feral pigs all the time for hunting opportunity, I wouldn't be surprised if other places did it as well.

The state of Texas?  I highly doubt they plant pigs, the landowners would go wild if that was true, they hate pigs down there

[Stein]

They may hate pigs, but they love trophy hunters and the money they bring.  There are many well known guys that trap pigs and then re-sell the big ones to hunting properties and send the small ones to a butcher.  I don't know the numbers, but if you see a property that is consistently kicking out huge monsters week after week, one might wonder how that could go on forever.

It's a well known secret, TX will never not have a pig "problem."  Way too much money in it.

[dontgetcrabs]

Texas plants feral pigs all the time for hunting opportunity, I wouldn't be surprised if other places did it as well.

BS

[ipkus]

Texas plants feral pigs all the time for hunting opportunity, I wouldn't be surprised if other places did it as well.

The State of Texas has nothing to do with planting feral pigs.  Are some landowners trapping and swapping?  Maybe.  But the State is not involved. 

[bornhunter]

We should ship Texas some wolves and cougars!

[Stein]

The state isn't moving pigs, Texans are, every day.  There are countless people that will bring you however many live pigs you have customers for.

On the other hand, we can simply believe that a small to modest ranch can produce a dozen pigs a week over 200# indefinitely from natural reproduction.  It's a different ball game down there from WA.

They make a big mess, but they also bring a ton of money.  We could eradicate them, but it will never happen. 

[ne kid]

My nephew lives in Austin my cousins live all around the Houston area they move pigs to the ranches the state is not involved they are wiping out many native species you don't even need a hunting license anymore, I've been down there twice the game warden we talked to last time sure encouraged shooting as many as possible.

[dontgetcrabs]

Texas, much like WA, has strict laws on transporting feral hogs.

[Birdguy]

Texas, much like WA, has strict laws on transporting feral hogs.

Lots of laws about a lot of things all over. Enforcement is the key!

[Stein]

Texas, much like WA, has strict laws on transporting feral hogs.

Sure they do.  WA has strict laws about a bunch of things that happen in Seattle.  You can't camp in the streets, you can't go #2 on the sidewalk, you can't punch a Bartell Drugs employee in the face, you can't shoplift, and car tabs are only $30.

If you think Texas wants to get rid of pigs then we are of a different understanding of the situation.

[Okanagan]

They may hate pigs, but they love trophy hunters and the money they bring.
…

... TX will never not have a pig "problem."  Way too much money in it.

^^ This^^

Let's see... ranchers hate pigs and want to eradicate them.  So they limit the number of hunters and charge them a hefty fee to shoot pigs one at a time.

In a quick random google of three Texas hog hunting sites, they each bemoaned the damage hogs are doing and begged hunters to come help eradicate them – so hurry to reserve a limited booking.  Costs ranged from a discount $250 for one evening in a hog stand to a starting price of $2000 for two days, and I did not check the cost of a helicopter hunt.  Hunting ranches add on fees for almost everything though the discount place lets the hunter shoot two hogs before adding fees for each pig killed after two. 

Yep, those ranchers are longing for the day when there is not a single pig left to charge hunters to hunt.

[ne kid]

I am going in April my cost will be ammunition, and chipping in to buy some corn they are all over down there. 250$ is a pretty cheap hunt with no license required. I think if Texas wanted them they wouldn't have dropped license required to hunt them last September.

[pianoman9701]

A couple of years ago I looked into hog hunting in TX. For several properties, the cost was $500/day and you sit on a feeder/ Lots of money to shoot pigs that may be hazardous to your health to eat. Leptospirosis is a zoonosis - it transfers to humans. Not for me thanks.

[Rob]

seems to me two different groups here.

-State of TX wants them gone
-Outfitters who sell hunts want them to stay.

This will manifest conflicting policies for pig management.

[b0bbyg]

seems to me two different groups here.

-State of TX wants them gone
-Outfitters who sell hunts want them to stay.

This will manifest conflicting policies for pig management.

I agree with you, it is not a yes or no question on does Texas or do Texans want pigs, it just depends on the lens you are looking through.  Some folks with lots of land that is not completely used so why not have some hogs and charge people to shoot them. 
Imagine if you are a more residential neighborhood near one of these wide open areas, guessing they do not want them.
The State likely does not want them because they do not want the nuisance calls.
There are people down there making a living off of them, they will manage so that they can continue to do so.

 

[pianoman9701]

seems to me two different groups here.

-State of TX wants them gone
-Outfitters who sell hunts want them to stay.

This will manifest conflicting policies for pig management.

I'd be willing to bet there are major penalties for releasing pigs for sport in almost every state in the lower 48.

[Rob]

Probably - however Texas has lots of exotics so they may have different rules.  And I know many outfitters have fenced in their feral pigs and then manage them for hunting.

[Pegasus]

Used to be a problem with them in Washington down by Montesano. Not sure if they ever eradicated them but they was a year-round open season on them. Not sure that you even needed a hunting license to harvest them.

[pianoman9701]

Texas Administrative Code

Next Rule>>
TITLE 4   AGRICULTURE
PART 2   TEXAS ANIMAL HEALTH COMMISSION
CHAPTER 55   SWINE
RULE §55.9   Feral Swine

...
(5) Suspension/Revocation. The commission may suspend the authorization for an approved holding facility if the owner or operator fails to generate, maintain or provide records on feral swine as provided in paragraph (4) of this subsection, fails to maintain swine-proof fences to prevent the ingress or egress of feral swine, or violates any of the provisions of this chapter or the provisions of Chapter 161 of the Agriculture Code. The suspension will remain in effect until the deficiencies that were the cause of the suspension are corrected and any penalties assessed as result of the suspension are satisfied and a written suspension release is provided by the agency. The authorization for a holding facility may be revoked for blatant or repetitive violation(s) of the feral swine law or rules or for repeated failure to meet the requirements contained in this chapter.
(d) Authorized Hunting Preserve.
  (1) To trap, move, and release live feral swine, a person must apply and receive commission authorization for a hunting preserve. Authorization is required for each hunting preserve.
  (2) If feral swine are to be trapped and moved for release to a hunting preserve, the hunting preserve shall meet the following requirements:
    (A) Only male feral swine (i.e. boars and/or barrows) may be trapped, moved and released to a hunting preserve;
    (B) Any feral swine released must be individually identified with a commission approved form of identification prior to release;
    (C) Records shall be generated and maintained as provided in subsection (c)(4) of this section;
    (D) Have a Hunting Lease License with the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department and the license must be current and in good standing with that agency, as provided for in Chapter 43 of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Code;
    (E) Be enclosed by a swine-proof fence and the fence shall be maintained continually to prevent the egress of feral swine;
    (F) Feral swine shall not be fed any garbage or waste as defined in Chapter 165 of the Texas Agriculture Code; and
    (G) The authorization for a hunting preserve may be suspended or rescinded if owner and/or the operator fails to generate, maintain or provide records on feral swine as provided in subsection (c)(4) of this section, sufficient fences are not maintained, or violates any of the provisions of this chapter or the provisions of Chapter 161 of the Agriculture Code. The suspension will remain in effect until the deficiencies that were the cause of the suspension are corrected and any penalties assessed as result of the suspension are satisfied. The preserve will be notified in writing when the suspension has been lifted. The authorization for a hunting preserve may be rescinded for blatant or repetitive violation(s) of the feral swine law or rules or for repeated failure to meet the requirements contained in this chapter.

(h) Violations and Penalties. In addition to any other violations that may arise under the act or this chapter:
  (1) It is a violation for any person to falsify an application.
  (2) Any violation of these rules is subject to the appropriate administrative, civil or criminal penalties. In addition, the agency may revoke or deny renewal of a permit and/or assess administrative penalties against any person for a violation of these rules.

I can't find where those penalties are listed. Texas is dead serious about containing feral pigs. They're not alone.

[Rob]

"    (E) Be enclosed by a swine-proof fence and the fence shall be maintained continually to prevent the egress of feral swine;"

I would argue there is no such thing!

[pianoman9701]

"    (E) Be enclosed by a swine-proof fence and the fence shall be maintained continually to prevent the egress of feral swine;"

I would argue there is no such thing!

I bet Texas has a standard and it must be maintained. I found it interesting that hunting preserves can only bring in males - so no breeding - and they must keep records of each animal released.

[Stein]

For those of you that haven't done business in TX, it's a different environment.  The state is almost 96% privately owned and the state gives tremendous power to the landowner, much unlike our state.  It's hard to exaggerate how different TX is in every way when it comes to regulation, enforcement and how their game agencies work compared to ours.

My company built a facility down there and one of the huge selling points to us and our customers is that there is such little regulation.  We can permit a project in a week that would take 5 years in this state.  Many of our projects don't even require permits.

The hunting industry is huge money and I agree that some landowners are paying the price.  That said, you will almost never find a free pig hunt and there are a huge amount of people that make a good living or a nice addition to their income through it.  Every day, people bring pigs in and move them around so people can have the hunts they want.

There are also a ton of other exotic non-native animals that are managed by landowners, you really can't compare TX to any other state I have been in, even Alaska.

There are rules of course, and then there is the motto where you get after it, make your money and the state and local government usually is pretty happy that business is going on.

They have all kinds of interesting hunting stuff down there.  Ask someone down there about their pigeon or dove hunts where 6 figures change hands on a regular basis.  I bet there are laws against that as well.

[kidkodger]

I researched hog hunts a few years ago.  Everything starts with the damage they cause, but dig deeper and there's money being made.  I learned that at least in Cali it is very rare to take a pig on public land due to hunting pressure.  I had to pay the state for a license and a tag for the privilege of helping them with their problem.  Our fishing guide went into great detail about his trapping, holding, and processing facility for hogs.  He got pretty coy about what he actually does with the pigs, sounded like a very expensive hobby.  Certainly California has much more regulation than Texas which, I think, is why he never really told us the end of the story. They say pigs are smart as dogs, how many do you think can be killed on a piece of property year round?  A friend hunts family land in Texas for a week each year.  He says he has one shot at the pigs and then they'll move off the property for weeks.  "Hog Wild" in the video takes in 2000 a year!

[Platensek-po]

I researched hog hunts a few years ago.  Everything starts with the damage they cause, but dig deeper and there's money being made.  I learned that at least in Cali it is very rare to take a pig on public land due to hunting pressure.  Our fishing guide went into great detail about his trapping, holding, and processing facility for hogs.  He got pretty coy about what he actually does with the pigs, sounded like a very expensive hobby.  Certainly California has much more regulation than Texas which, I think, is why he never really told us the end of the story. They say pigs are smart as dogs, how many do you think can be killed on a piece of property year round?  A friend hunts family land in Texas for a week each year.  He says he has one shot at the pigs and then they'll move off the property for weeks.  "Hog Wild" in the video takes in 2000 a year!

Curious about this. If I remember correctly it’s estimated feral hogs cause over 1 billion in damages each year. What’s the revenue from hunting them?? Is it over a billion?? I looked into Hog hunting and it made no sense to me. People want a lot of money to have you “help” with their hog “problem”. California has no limits but it costs about $100 a pig for permits. If they wanted them gone that number would be a lot lower. I would rather save that money and put it towards deer or elk in another state. I’ve wondered about contacting Texas and Oklahoma fish and game for nuisance complaints and seeing if you get permission for “free” hog hunts. Anyone have experience with that?

[follow maggie]

A couple of years ago I looked into hog hunting in TX. For several properties, the cost was $500/day and you sit on a feeder/ Lots of money to shoot pigs that may be hazardous to your health to eat. Leptospirosis is a zoonosis - it transfers to humans. Not for me thanks.

But places where the most pigs are found- Texas, Oklahoma, California are pretty dry, so the risk is very minimal. If you want to do a hunt, don’t let that scare you away. I’ve done 2 pig hunts in California and had great tins and came home with a bunch of excellent meat.

[idaho guy]

Probably - however Texas has lots of exotics so they may have different rules.  And I know many outfitters have fenced in their feral pigs and then manage them for hunting.

 

  the pigs the outfitters are buying and dumping are fenced in. There’s still rules regarding game farms but they can transport and relocate pigs and other game. It’s different than just releasing a bunch of hogs out into the national forest

[Hillbilly Zen]

They may hate pigs, but they love trophy hunters and the money they bring.
…

... TX will never not have a pig "problem."  Way too much money in it.

^^ This^^

Let's see... ranchers hate pigs and want to eradicate them.  So they limit the number of hunters and charge them a hefty fee to shoot pigs one at a time.

In a quick random google of three Texas hog hunting sites, they each bemoaned the damage hogs are doing and begged hunters to come help eradicate them – so hurry to reserve a limited booking.  Costs ranged from a discount $250 for one evening in a hog stand to a starting price of $2000 for two days, and I did not check the cost of a helicopter hunt.  Hunting ranches add on fees for almost everything though the discount place lets the hunter shoot two hogs before adding fees for each pig killed after two. 

Yep, those ranchers are longing for the day when there is not a single pig left to charge hunters to hunt.

Texans don’t pay those prices unless they are wealthy and live in the city.  In my experience, anyone living on, owning, connected to, related to, or who has a third cousin twice removed can get an invitation to hunt feral hogs and will probably be cooked a delicious fried chicken lunch to take to a stand with them.  A dozen hogs can take out a half acre of quality feed in a night.  They breed worse than rabbits and wipe out about anything planted.  If I was losing tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in feed or crops on a ranch/farm and found out people would pay me to shoot the hogs wiping out my livelihood, heck yeah i’d take their money and unlock the gate.  Are some unscrupulous people going to take advantage of that?  Of course.  But do most Texas landowners want hogs for some kind of parallel landowner hunting economy?  Theres a reason ranchers drive around with 30 round mags locked and loaded.  It aint for encouraging hunting tourists...

[Stein]

I hunt some BMA land in MT where the farmer has big trouble with deer eating his hay bales all winter and crops in the summer.  He posted his land with the state so anybody with a hunting license can access the land to shoot anything they can legally harvest, for free.  No limit on the animals you can hunt and it's open during the entire season with no limit on the number of people or anything.  You don't need to reserve it, pay anything, just sign in and have at it.

I talked with him this year, he thanked us for taking our deer, gave us additional info about their habits and location and asked us to spread the word and get as many shot as possible.  They put in a nice flat gravel pad to park multiple vehicles, a second pull out so you can access a different area without having to walk very far, new gates for access, etc.  He also tries not to be running equipment during heavy hunting times and generally does whatever he can to encourage hunters.

To me, that seems like a more productive way to maximize the number of animals taken off a given chunk of dirt.

[Hillbilly Zen]

I hunt some BMA land in MT where the farmer has big trouble with deer eating his hay bales all winter and crops in the summer.  He posted his land with the state so anybody with a hunting license can access the land to shoot anything they can legally harvest, for free.  No limit on the animals you can hunt and it's open during the entire season with no limit on the number of people or anything.  You don't need to reserve it, pay anything, just sign in and have at it.

I talked with him this year, he thanked us for taking our deer, gave us additional info about their habits and location and asked us to spread the word and get as many shot as possible.  They put in a nice flat gravel pad to park multiple vehicles, a second pull out so you can access a different area without having to walk very far, new gates for access, etc.  He also tries not to be running equipment during heavy hunting times and generally does whatever he can to encourage hunters.

To me, that seems like a more productive way to maximize the number of animals taken off a given chunk of dirt.

I believe some ranchers are doing exactly that, but i doubt it is an effective strategy for hogs really.  Not as effective as arming your employees and having them unload on any hog they see.  You have to consider that they are so prolific in some areas that they are not seen as game but as vermin.  To the point where people are attempting to find a way to effectively kill them with poisons.  They are generally shot on the fly and left to rot.  I had deer wipe out about 15 acres of newly planted apple trees In Burnet county Texas.  I shot my legal six pack, put up fences, funneled them to neighbors feeders and stands, and reduced pressure significantly because the breeding rate is low enough that deer can be controlled.  I was able to do that because of high bag limits and predictable gestation.  The hogs just went wherever they pleased and were mostly uncontrollable.   I had very little they wanted and they mostly stuck to wiping out neighboring cattle feed, deer plots, and sheep pastures.  It is difficult to find hunters, who view hogs as a game animal, to come out and shoot a dozen scrawny pigs.  And if there is a monster among them they will more likely target that one, and the rest will scatter; putting a dent of exactly one hog in your hog problem. Now If I put up a sign on the road that said “free deer hunting” there would be a line of trucks ten miles deep looking for deer.  People going to Texas to hunt hogs are looking for large game or trophy animals.  The greater Texas hog problem is more about controlling the swarms of scrawny pigs running like rats through creek bottoms and cedar stands.  I know a couple of hunters near Jarrel who regularly pop 30+ hogs in a night using thermal and night vision optics.  They shoot them from ambush positions and moving vehicles and don’t even make a dent in the farmlands they clear.  The hogs are sometimes sold and sometimes just left in the field.    They do it for access to deer hunting, and rarely take any meat.  Texas deer and ranches both could benefit immensely from an earn a buck program, and a bounty on smaller hogs.  Those pictures on the internet of people standing over huge piles of hogs are not exaggerated or photo shop altered!  The same can be said for much of Oklahoma, and the South.  If I wanted to DEER hunt in Texas or Oklahoma on a big piece of land and not pay for it,  I would offer to kill hogs over crops the rest of the year.  It’s like hunting anywhere I guess: you can pay and just go and do your thing and go home or you can start knocking on doors and figure out what your role in the relationship between hunter, farmer/rancher, wildlife could be for that area.

[ne kid]

  Well said I am going down again in April. The scrawny ones are really good eating.😁

[Alchase]

Wild hogs here in Oklahoma are classified as vermin. They do millions of dollars in agricultural damage every year. They are so prevalent, I have not been out deer hunting or hiking once were I have not seen multiple sounders each day. I probably see between 1 and 5 shot and left dead as well. That does not even blunt the sheer volume of pigs. The sows can give birth at six months and have three litters with as many as 20 or more three times a year. And unless taken out they can live a long life up over 14 years.
I originally thought it would be cool to hunt a couple for meat. Since then I have realized they are the foulest animal on the planet. They stink horrendously!
You can smell them from a long way off, and up close they can make you rech.
I honestly do not know how those hog hunters can stomach the smell.
A bear can get pretty ripe. A hog is ten times worse than any bear I have smelled.
I usually do not like to shoot what I do not eat. I make the exception with hogs.
This year I had a huge sow step out of the reprod about 15 ft in front of me and turn down the trail straight towards me. I don’t think she even knew I was there but I was not taking any chances. I hit her in the head with 180 gr 300 win mag and she dropped straight down. More reactionary than thought through. Pretty much ruined that spur for my deer hunt for the day.

[idaho guy]

I went down there and shot a few pigs. It was fun and I thought the meat was good but they do stink! They charged me a couple hundred bucks to help with their problem