Washington bass, walleye fishing limits liberalized in response to orca crisis

[HUNTIN4SIX]

seems pointless to plant more fish that just don't come back anyway.  look at the cowlitz if you need proof of that.

where WDFW is just making things worse, is taking fisheries that are actually productive and thriving - eastside bass and walleye, and taking them the same direction of salmon and steelhead in this state.  pretty soon, all we'll have left to fish for is planter trout.

Yes just look at Cowlitz......they have decreased production in the last 15 years,  wdfw is playing the game with Tacoma power who does not want hatchery fish.  Now we have very low returns

[HUNTIN4SIX]

1. increase hatchery chinook production. (giving the orcas something to eat)
2. kill the sea lions
3. regulate tribal

pretty easy solution on paper, but none of these will happen.

Increasing hatchery salmon is not a good idea. Hatchery salmon are destroying what little genetic diversity is left in truly wild fish. It’s dumbing the natural population down through our selfish actions. The best course of action, albeit unreasonable, is to remove the man made barriers that have decimated the population, kill the hatcheries and let Mother Nature heal itself.

I hope your just being funny?  This exact thinking is why we are in this situation with low returns and orca problems.  Ever wonder where hatchery fish came from?  LOL!
Best returns came from the 70's And 80's when hatchery production was at it's peak.  That was before very smart educated liberal people got involved.  Hatcheries have been around long before all these problems.  It's a shame terrible dams and humans messed up the liberal utopia of nature.
Since you are a geneticist enlighten be on the difference in genetics of wild vs hatchery fish.  I promise not to bring up stray rates either.

[ctwiggs1]

seems pointless to plant more fish that just don't come back anyway.  look at the cowlitz if you need proof of that.

where WDFW is just making things worse, is taking fisheries that are actually productive and thriving - eastside bass and walleye, and taking them the same direction of salmon and steelhead in this state.  pretty soon, all we'll have left to fish for is planter trout.

Even stocker trout are seeing some cut backs and changes throughtout the recent years.

That’s great news! I could live a good life if I never have to eat dog food trout again.

[castie2504]

1. increase hatchery chinook production. (giving the orcas something to eat)
2. kill the sea lions
3. regulate tribal

pretty easy solution on paper, but none of these will happen.

Increasing hatchery salmon is not a good idea. Hatchery salmon are destroying what little genetic diversity is left in truly wild fish. It’s dumbing the natural population down through our selfish actions. The best course of action, albeit unreasonable, is to remove the man made barriers that have decimated the population, kill the hatcheries and let Mother Nature heal itself.

I hope your just being funny?  This exact thinking is why we are in this situation with low returns and orca problems.  Ever wonder where hatchery fish came from?  LOL!
Best returns came from the 70's And 80's when hatchery production was at it's peak.  That was before very smart educated liberal people got involved.  Hatcheries have been around long before all these problems.  It's a shame terrible dams and humans messed up the liberal utopia of nature.
Since you are a geneticist enlighten be on the difference in genetics of wild vs hatchery fish.  I promise not to bring up stray rates either.

The low numbers are a man made problem, no? Before our predecessors let greed destroy the runs they were incredible. What we have now is remnants of this. Why were hatcheries started anyway? To produce and replace fish because nature could no longer keep up with the stress humans placed upon them. The genetics part is easy. Hatcheries are built to maximize production where the survival rate is super inflated. The fish are raised unnaturally in pens, even those that otherwise would not have made it. It’s no longer survival of the fittest. Even those fish who are genetically inferior are reproducing now I’m hatcheries. Only the best genetics made it to reproduce (before hatcheries) hence keeping strong, healthy fish. Being raised in pens does not allow natural selection to occur how it should and altering genetic diversity. I for one, would love to see the natural runs return, if there are any left. But I am afraid that we’ve muddied the water too much and it will never happen in my lifetime. The salmon population problem is a very complicated issue with no simple solution. There are pros and cons, arguments for and against every idea or thought. The one thing I think we can agree on is this: it is a damn travesty what has occurred to this once seemingly endless supply of salmon.

[Bullkllr]

I tried to warn you guys. Wild/hatchery debates don't go anywhere except circles.

[Taco280AI]

Demand for salmon will only increase and big money corporations have politicians ears. Hatchery salmon will increase numbers for everyone - orcas, anglers, commercial, tribes. Getting rid of all hatcheries will guarantee sport fishing to decrease or be eliminated with time.

[lokidog]

Ocean conditions have been a factor in this as well.  Ocean conditions have improved over the last 3 years, I would expect to see improved runs in the near future.  When you mix seals, birds, tribal, commercial harvest, decreased hatchery production and poor ocean conditions you get a recipe for disaster.  Don't forget it was only 5-7 years ago we had record numbers of returning chinook.  I am hopeful for an improvement in the near future.

  Also, not to forget the "blob" back in 2014/15 warming the waters off much of the northern Pacific Coast.

Unfortunately, it looks like the Blob is back.

Water temperatures were warmer during all of our smolt sampling in the San Juans last summer and catch rates were down.

[lokidog]

1. increase hatchery chinook production. (giving the orcas something to eat)
2. kill the sea lions
3. regulate tribal

pretty easy solution on paper, but none of these will happen.

Increasing hatchery salmon is not a good idea. Hatchery salmon are destroying what little genetic diversity is left in truly wild fish. It’s dumbing the natural population down through our selfish actions. The best course of action, albeit unreasonable, is to remove the man made barriers that have decimated the population, kill the hatcheries and let Mother Nature heal itself.

I hope your just being funny?  This exact thinking is why we are in this situation with low returns and orca problems.  Ever wonder where hatchery fish came from?  LOL!
Best returns came from the 70's And 80's when hatchery production was at it's peak.  That was before very smart educated liberal people got involved.  Hatcheries have been around long before all these problems.  It's a shame terrible dams and humans messed up the liberal utopia of nature.
Since you are a geneticist enlighten be on the difference in genetics of wild vs hatchery fish.  I promise not to bring up stray rates either.

The low numbers are a man made problem, no? Before our predecessors let greed destroy the runs they were incredible. What we have now is remnants of this. Why were hatcheries started anyway? To produce and replace fish because nature could no longer keep up with the stress humans placed upon them. The genetics part is easy. Hatcheries are built to maximize production where the survival rate is super inflated. The fish are raised unnaturally in pens, even those that otherwise would not have made it. It’s no longer survival of the fittest. Even those fish who are genetically inferior are reproducing now I’m hatcheries. Only the best genetics made it to reproduce (before hatcheries) hence keeping strong, healthy fish. Being raised in pens does not allow natural selection to occur how it should and altering genetic diversity. I for one, would love to see the natural runs return, if there are any left. But I am afraid that we’ve muddied the water too much and it will never happen in my lifetime. The salmon population problem is a very complicated issue with no simple solution. There are pros and cons, arguments for and against every idea or thought. The one thing I think we can agree on is this: it is a damn travesty what has occurred to this once seemingly endless supply of salmon.

If a fish, hatchery or wild, makes it back to the hatchery these days, I would suggest that it is, indeed, fit. Sure, some "unfit" fish might survive to be released into the river system, but they have a huge gamut of adversity to concur once they leave the hatcheries, the same adversity a wild fish would have. My only beef with hatcheries is that they should take a smaller amount of eggs/milt from a larger number of fish so there is indeed more genetic diversity.

[plugger]

I can only hope the guides are not stupid enough to let there clients keep 16 walleye each.

[Camo]

I can only hope the guides are not stupid enough to let there clients keep 16 walleye each.

Unfortunately they already do on the lower Columbia and Lk. Roosevelt where the limits previously increased or were completely eliminated.

[plugger]

Ya I know they do. There are a few that put restrictions for there boats, but not many. The river, due to the size can handle it better than say, moses lake though. Just not enough water or enough cover for the walleye in there. If the local guides pound on those fish day after day taking that many fish out of there, they will be cutting there own throat.

[Angry Perch]

Ya I know they do. There are a few that put restrictions for there boats, but not many. The river, due to the size can handle it better than say, moses lake though. Just not enough water or enough cover for the walleye in there. If the local guides pound on those fish day after day taking that many fish out of there, they will be cutting there own throat.

Yep. The right time of year on Moses Lake when the fish are stacked up, they could sure put a dent in the population.

[Camo]

I'm not smart enough to figure out how the walleye or bass in the Banks - Potholes system have any significant impact on salmon smolt that would migrate into and sustain southern Puget Sound Orcas? As said before, just another grab at low hanging fruit because no one has the balls to do what is needed.

[Ironhead]

How about they raise the limit on Lions and Wolves and give us an OTC spring Bear hunt. If it works for Salmon and Whales the same thought process should work for predators and Big Game, no? WDFW is going downhill fast.

[bigskyhounds]

How about they raise the limit on Lions and Wolves and give us an OTC spring Bear hunt. If it works for Salmon and Whales the same thought process should work for predators and Big Game, no? WDFW is going downhill fast.

If only you could convince them that  harvesting more bears, raising lion quotas, and opening a season for wolves would increase salmon runs. If you could do that then we might get somewhere.