Puget Sound Steelheading

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

Nets.

 Again, how are coastal fish avoiding the “predators”/nets and the PS fish are not?

My simple thoughts are that coastal fish can sneak up there favorite streams without detection from as much predators as inner pugatroplis steelheads.  The Pugatroplis rivers have suffered from many issues for many decades.  This thought coming from a young boy who caught his first of many steelheads from the  Green which at one point was in the top 10 in the state.

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

Coastal Tribal hatcheries get "more" fish back because they 1] Empty into the coast, and therefore have higher survival than Puget Sound streams
2] Are federally funded (by taxpayers] 3] Have the largest smolt release programs on the westside, with the exception of the Cowlitz 4] Arent subject to "hatchery reform" 5] Arent subject to Endangered Species Act limitations.

The Bogachiel hatchery gets back fish at as good or as high a return rate as any tribal program.  If they weren't subject to the same hatchery reform regulations and could selectively breed locally adapted broodstock and release them at the same quantities as tribal programs, you'd see a dramatic increase in the both the quality and quantity of adult returns.

The Sooes [Tribal) releases 165,000 smolts on average a year, which is slightly more than the Bogey/Calawah.  And the fishery was totally closed this year to tribal and recreational fishing due to bad returns.  Last time I looked the Bogey had returned 1106 steelhead this season, the highest return on the coast.  Both facilities utilize "chambers" stock, for a more apples to apples comparison.  Both are subject to intensive tribal fisheries-

Cook Creek on the Quinault releases a "Chambers" derivative, at a higher annual number than Bogey.  It sucked this year as well. 

The Salmon releases a local (Quinault) stock that is selectively bred for large size.  While return rates seem better, they also plant a lot more into that system, usually 200,000 to 225,000.

Boy Howdy that's what I was looking up! Thank you!

[huntnphool]

Coastal Tribal hatcheries get "more" fish back because they 1] Empty into the coast, and therefore have higher survival than Puget Sound streams

 Ok, so are coastal fish and PS fish maturing in different areas once they hit the salt?...doubtful that they are that different.

 So if they both mature in similar areas, the difference is the areas of the PS before they reach those maturing grounds, and same areas when they return. How many “nets” are there in that migration route, that the coastal fish never have to deal with?

 Is there that much steelhead netting going on in the inland waters?

[BigCutty3]

There is extremely limited tribal netting targeting steelhead nowadays in Puget Sound Rivers.  There are simply so few fish coming back either it isn't worth it for them or they are choosing not to.  There are a few exceptions of course....the Skagit on years there is a forecasted harvestable surplus, and a few limited C and S fisheries in the S rivers, the Nooksack, etc.  Most tribes are no longer fishing steelhead.
There is no legal non-tribal netting targeting steelhead.  Im sure a few get captured in salmon fisheries as bycatch (ie seine fisheries, etc) but its miniscule.

Puget Sound problems have to do with predation by pinnipeds, avian mortality, and a lack of food during early entry into the sound/ocean.  Telemetry studies show less than 20% (sometimes less than 10%) even make it out of the Strait of Juan de Fuca, after being released from PS rivers.

When Puget Sound hatcheries release 486,767 steelhead smolts (for this years 2-salt return) and to date trap around 255 adults, with a virtually shut down recreational fishery, high water, and almost no tribal netting, spread out over 5 different hatchery programs, you could say "Houston, we have a problem".

And as some other posters have noted, it aint just steelhead.  Chum returns last year are among the worst, and the worst, in several of the major Puget Sound systems.

You can add sockeye to the list, and pinks in most, with the exception of the Puyallup/Green.  Puget Sound is seriously hurting. 

[huntnphool]

Puget Sound problems have to do with predation by pinnipeds, avian mortality, and a lack of food during early entry into the sound/ocean.  Telemetry studies show less than 20% (sometimes less than 10%) even make it out of the Strait of Juan de Fuca, after being released from PS rivers.

You can add sockeye to the list, and pinks in most, with the exception of the Puyallup/Green.  Puget Sound is seriously hurting.

 Bingo!!!

 This is what I was getting at. The issue is within the PS itself, pinnipeds being the top issue IMO.

[87Ford]

BigCutty3, thank you for commenting on this thread..

Fishing in the spring for wild fish on the PS rivers has been gone for a long time (aside from the Sauk/Skagit last year).  Thought I could at least continue fishing on what's left of the hatchery program, but with returns continuing to decline to where we are, I'm afraid it's really over. 

Houston, we have a problem..

[huntnphool]

BigCutty3, thank you for commenting on this thread..

Fishing in the spring for wild fish on the PS rivers has been gone for a long time (aside from the Sauk/Skagit last year).  Thought I could at least continue fishing on what's left of the hatchery program, but with returns continuing to decline to where we are, I'm afraid it's really over. 

Houston, we have a problem..

 +1

[Skyvalhunter]

+2

[WAcoueshunter]

If it’s the PS itself, why are PS hatchery coho and chinook doing well?  2019 wasn’t good, but 2018 was. The hatchery steelhead returns are unreal bad. Clearly something here going on. Just don’t understand why it doesn’t effect coho and chinook the same.

[BigCutty3]

Steelhead are the largest smolts that are leaving the systems, and likely are the preferred target for the pinnipeds due to that.  Coho are the second largest, about half the size of steelhead smolts or slightly smaller.  Hatchery Chinook are even smaller and go out on average at around 80 fish to the pound.
Steelhead tend to run in the surface column as well, and it is believed that makes them more prone to predation.  A lot of steehead smolts disappear around the Tacoma Narrows, Hood Canal Bridge, and in Admiralty inlet, all known choke points where things get funneled into and are vulnerable.

Hatchery coho and Chinook release numbers are also much more substantial than steelhead, in the tens of millions in PS.  They also tend to run deeper than steelhead.

Pink and chum fry are the smallest smolts and leave the river soon after absorbing their yolk sac, about an inch long.  They are dependent on good plankton abundance for early productivity, and are not subject to pinniped predation due to their small size.  Cutts, Dollies, and any other fish bigger than them will snack them like popcorn though.

[Bullkllr]

If it’s the PS itself, why are PS hatchery coho and chinook doing well?  2019 wasn’t good, but 2018 was. The hatchery steelhead returns are unreal bad. Clearly something here going on. Just don’t understand why it doesn’t effect coho and chinook the same.

Edit: just saw the above post, and some of this is a bit redundant...

I think we'd need to define "doing well" in regard to salmon since numbers are on a general downward trend for PS as well, but there are perhaps some unknown factors as well as some known: for example
the number of salmon released absolutely dwarfs steelhead released, and steelhead are typically raised to a  much larger size before release.

For anyone interested, there are comprehensive studies on the causes:
https://www.eopugetsound.org/magazine/young-salmon
and
https://marinesurvivalproject.com/wp-content/uploads/PS-Steelhead-Marine-Survival-Research-Summary-Report-2013-2017-13April20....pdf
and
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282898401_Multi-population_analysis_of_Puget_Sound_steelhead_survival_and_migration_behavior

Now if we could just develop the will as a society to do something about it that would matter...

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

@ BigCutty thanks for posting the info you did. There is alot involved. 

[Stein]

If it’s the PS itself, why are PS hatchery coho and chinook doing well?  2019 wasn’t good, but 2018 was. The hatchery steelhead returns are unreal bad. Clearly something here going on. Just don’t understand why it doesn’t effect coho and chinook the same.

I wouldn't say they are doing well, last several years the seasons were short, limited or flat out closed.  It's been a while since I would say the numbers and size of fish were good.  The trend is clearly down for PS, Columbia and coastal for a couple of decades and we know what it was like the last few years, bad news.



All of the fish have different times when they breed, return to the ocean, return from the ocean, what they eat and where they migrate to not to mention commercial, sport and tribal pressure.  It's no surprise that some will luck out and have better conditions and feed than others.  Big events like the blob hit everything while more local stuff like drought, flood and predators can hit one species much more than others.

[WAcoueshunter]

For sure doing “well” is all relative. Size and weight in coho and chinook is way down over time, and some years it’s really bad. But numbers are still there. 2018 was an incredible year. 2019 not so much. 2017 was good, 2016 I think was the year they closed coho, only to have a decent return in the end. But relative to steelhead survival, it’s still night and day. BigCutty, thanks for the info, very interesting and informative.