Difference between cheap Winchester shells and Black Cloud on the inside of thes

[Everydaylimits]

Check out this video to see the difference between the Winchester shells and Black cloud. What shells do you prefer?

[Bill W]

Two things he didn't address 1) what was the black coating on the Winchester pellets?  I assume Winchester (or whoever made them for Winchester) applied a coating to make the pellets appear black.  2)how well are the cases sealed in case the ammo gets dunked in water.  Don't want the pellets rusting or clumping together if the end of the case isn't sealed.

[metlhead]

I'm gonna assume that 3.5" #2s, we are talking a goose load. Both have irregular shot so they are very similar. BC is by no means premium, just gimmicky. But they do work, no better than regular steel. I'd jump ahead to actual premium tungsten.

[huntingfool7]

Neither. 

Black Cloud is a gimmick.  The belt you see on Black Cloud is on all steel shot when it's stamped.  To get round shot it takes more finishing.

Winchester markets some of the cheapest and crappiest steel on the shelves.  Quality shot costs more.  The "black soot" is graphite.  Probably added to make those pellets with Kling-Ons feed through the loading equipment.

[Widgeondeke]

No mention of powder either. I've had issues with Winchester gunking up my guns from powder residue. 

[fowl smacker]

As someone who has shot A LOT of Black Cloud, I can tell you this.  It has had more one shot kills for me than any other STEEL shot has on the market.  I've tried them all.  No it isn't going to have the killing range and knockdown power of your super metals, but in my observations it is no gimmick.  I don't get to waterfowl hunt near as much as I used to, but when I do get out I shoot Black Cloud shells.  FYI, I have no affiliation with them, just a fan from experience. By no means am I saying that you can't go and kill birds dead with Kent or Winchester or Estate, or whatever else brand you find on the shelves.  Good hunting.

[Dan-o]

As someone who has shot A LOT of Black Cloud, I can tell you this.  It has had more one shot kills for me than any other STEEL shot has on the market.  I've tried them all.  No it isn't going to have the killing range and knockdown power of your super metals, but in my observations it is no gimmick.  I don't get to waterfowl hunt near as much as I used to, but when I do get out I shoot Black Cloud shells.  FYI, I have no affiliation with them, just a fan from experience. By no means am I saying that you can't go and kill birds dead with Kent or Winchester or Estate, or whatever else brand you find on the shelves.  Good hunting.

That's good to know.     

I've been getting back into waterfowl hunting the last couple years.

I don't mind paying more if it actually makes a difference.

[wadu1]

I've had better luck with Blind Side over Black Cloud. Have seen where the Blind Side wads stick in the barrel (twice). Bought a case of Black Cloud by the time I got home the box was rattling, four of the boxes (25) were over crimped and all the shot fell out. It took almost a year to get any action from Federal. I do just as well with Winchester White box or Federal Blue box shells. 

[fowl smacker]

I've had better luck with Blind Side over Black Cloud. Have seen where the Blind Side wads stick in the barrel (twice). Bought a case of Black Cloud by the time I got home the box was rattling, four of the boxes (25) were over crimped and all the shot fell out. It took almost a year to get any action from Federal. I do just as well with Winchester White box or Federal Blue box shells. 

Strange on the crimps and the shot falling out.  I've gone through probably 27-30 cases of Black Cloud in both 3" & 3 1/2" #2 and BB combined and never had an issue like that.

[metlhead]

Question to the OP, are you seeking a gun/load combo for waterfowling? If so, let us know some background- experience, region hunted. Many years of bird hunting experience on this site that can really get you dialed in. For instance, I hunt an expansive piece of public land that requires a boat for the best spots. I've been able to pattern the birds over 30 years. All my shooting is less than 25yds, so my cheap Estate 20ga #4s will hammer anything I shoot.

[konradcountry]

I'm going to agree with fowl smacker.

I don't think it is a gimmick. I can get a 60 yard pattern with Black Cloud which is what they advertise.

I'd be fine shooting turkeys with it.

The real difference is in the flight control wad.

For close up I'd use something that costs less. But I never pay full price anyways. Easy to find it on sale off season.

[huntingfool7]

The Flite Stopper wad is no gimmick.  It keeps the shot together much further than a conventional wad.  Have any of you guys put those Flite Control wads on paper at 20 yards?

I just came in from killing a coyote with 12 gauge Federal Flite Control wads and HW15 BB's.  Laser range finder confirmed the distance at 111 yards.  I know that's not normal shotgun range.  However it is my home defense setup and thus was at hand when the booger ran across the back yard while I was getting out of the shower.

If you are happy with Black Cloud     IMHO it is marketing genius to sell unfinished shot at a premium price.  If it takes a super dupper wad to keep that inferior shot to stay together,  .  Same thing can be done with some nice round #1 steel in a Federal economy blue box.   

[Backstrap]

The Flite Stopper wad is no gimmick.  It keeps the shot together much further than a conventional wad.  Have any of you guys put those Flite Control wads on paper at 20 yards?

I just came in from killing a coyote with 12 gauge Federal Flite Control wads and HW15 BB's.  Laser range finder confirmed the distance at 111 yards.  I know that's not normal shotgun range.  However it is my home defense setup and thus was at hand when the booger ran across the back yard while I was getting out of the shower.

If you are happy with Black Cloud     IMHO it is marketing genius to sell unfinished shot at a premium price.  If it takes a super dupper wad to keep that inferior shot to stay together,  .  Same thing can be done with some nice round #1 steel in a Federal economy blue box.

Damn! Nice shot on the coyote!!

[C-Money]

I've kinda always been a Federal or a Remington waterfowl ammo guy. I've shot a lot of Winchester, but seem to only buy Winchester if its all that's available. I cut open a dud Winchester shell last year and the steel shot was ALL different sizes and not round. Wish I had taken a picture as it really confirmed why I pick the Winchester steel last. Also, It was a dud due to it being ran through the washing machine, not Winchesters fault.

[Stein]

Question to the OP, are you seeking a gun/load combo for waterfowling? If so, let us know some background- experience, region hunted. Many years of bird hunting experience on this site that can really get you dialed in. For instance, I hunt an expansive piece of public land that requires a boat for the best spots. I've been able to pattern the birds over 30 years. All my shooting is less than 25yds, so my cheap Estate 20ga #4s will hammer anything I shoot.

OP looks to be posting to promote his YouTube channel, he is from Michigan.  10 posts and most were his YouTube videos.

[rainshadow1]

I have 4 to 7 shooters to outfit at any given time... off season clearance at $5 per box keeps the shelves loaded with Super X, even though I know the premiums are better made ammo.

[Firstbuck]

Question to the OP, are you seeking a gun/load combo for waterfowling? If so, let us know some background- experience, region hunted. Many years of bird hunting experience on this site that can really get you dialed in. For instance, I hunt an expansive piece of public land that requires a boat for the best spots. I've been able to pattern the birds over 30 years. All my shooting is less than 25yds, so my cheap Estate 20ga #4s will hammer anything I shoot.

OP looks to be posting to promote his YouTube channel, he is from Michigan.  10 posts and most were his YouTube videos.

He’s been posting his videos on all the Facebook groups I’m in too.

[Everydaylimits]

Nothing against posting on this forum if your from another state. I have hunted in Washington before. Also my videos are good talking points to discuss these topics. Have you not enjoyed watching them and seeing the difference in these shells as well as the comparisons. By looking at this forum it looks like im the most frequent poster actually getting people engaged to talk. I have a nice pattern test video of #4, #2 and BB shot coming out but apparently a few people dont want to see it.

[huntingfool7]

@Everydaylimits  I say post em up. 

As stated in an earlier post, I'd like to see patterns shot at normal decoy ranges with those flite control wad loads.  Post a video along those lines and I'll tune in.

[Everydaylimits]

You got it. I will post this one for you on Sunday. I did just that and showed the pattern and the wads were pretty cool to see after. You can see they held a tighter pattern over the Winchester.

[CoryTDF]

While I have slowed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down there was a time that I hunted waterfowl 5-6 times a week. For a little while there we danced with the prospect of television fame and I have hunted many states in this country. Without being a braggart I can say that I have killed more waterfowl than most. I have been sponsored by shot companies and I have used every shotshell you can think of. Here are my thoughts

1) Heavy metal shells like tungsten and bismuth really do hit harder.
2) Anything Remington makes is complete trash, I would rather shoot Estate shells.
3) Kent shells are great for some but I have seen the most FTF (Failure to Fire) from those shells than any others. This was observed in a wide verity of guns.
4) Shooting skills trump shell brand choice. I know a guy that runs a clinic in the goose pit using a 20 gauge with cheap-o shells. Probably the best shot I know.     

This debate is endless and everybody has their own thoughts. It's kinda like the Remington CoreLock bullets. They are not high end but I would wager that they have more big game kills than any other bullet on the market. At some point you just have to rely on shooting skills. I have killed ducks and geese with just about every brand you can think of. They all work, some are dirty and require more cleaning maintenance, some are faster and require aim/lead adjustment, some are "waterproof" and some have crazy ideas about shot size or shape and colors.

The bottom line is you should buy what you can afford to shoot and practice with it. If it's a dirty shell that still kills birds but requires more gun maintenance so be it. There is no reason to be fooled into designer shot shells that are outside of your budget. If you can afford the expensive stuff shoot it, and if not, don't worry about it! They all kill and they will all work. It's like a new GF, you just have to get to know them and then decided if you want to keep them around.       

[Everydaylimits]

While I have slowed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down there was a time that I hunted waterfowl 5-6 times a week. For a little while there we danced with the prospect of television fame and I have hunted many states in this country. Without being a braggart I can say that I have killed more waterfowl than most. I have been sponsored by shot companies and I have used every shotshell you can think of. Here are my thoughts

1) Heavy metal shells like tungsten and bismuth really do hit harder.
2) Anything Remington makes is complete trash, I would rather shoot Estate shells.
3) Kent shells are great for some but I have seen the most FTF (Failure to Fire) from those shells than any others. This was observed in a wide verity of guns.
4) Shooting skills trump shell brand choice. I know a guy that runs a clinic in the goose pit using a 20 gauge with cheap-o shells. Probably the best shot I know.     

This debate is endless and everybody has their own thoughts. It's kinda like the Remington CoreLock bullets. They are not high end but I would wager that they have more big game kills than any other bullet on the market. At some point you just have to rely on shooting skills. I have killed ducks and geese with just about every brand you can think of. They all work, some are dirty and require more cleaning maintenance, some are faster and require aim/lead adjustment, some are "waterproof" and some have crazy ideas about shot size or shape and colors.

The bottom line is you should buy what you can afford to shoot and practice with it. If it's a dirty shell that still kills birds but requires more gun maintenance so be it. There is no reason to be fooled into designer shot shells that are outside of your budget. If you can afford the expensive stuff shoot it, and if not, don't worry about it! They all kill and they will all work. It's like a new GF, you just have to get to know them and then decided if you want to keep them around.     

That is a great post and I agree with you. Out of anything I would just suggest people to get out and pattern their gun if switching and especially if switching choke combinations. They all perform a little different.

[CoryTDF]

While I have slowed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down there was a time that I hunted waterfowl 5-6 times a week. For a little while there we danced with the prospect of television fame and I have hunted many states in this country. Without being a braggart I can say that I have killed more waterfowl than most. I have been sponsored by shot companies and I have used every shotshell you can think of. Here are my thoughts

1) Heavy metal shells like tungsten and bismuth really do hit harder.
2) Anything Remington makes is complete trash, I would rather shoot Estate shells.
3) Kent shells are great for some but I have seen the most FTF (Failure to Fire) from those shells than any others. This was observed in a wide verity of guns.
4) Shooting skills trump shell brand choice. I know a guy that runs a clinic in the goose pit using a 20 gauge with cheap-o shells. Probably the best shot I know.     

This debate is endless and everybody has their own thoughts. It's kinda like the Remington CoreLock bullets. They are not high end but I would wager that they have more big game kills than any other bullet on the market. At some point you just have to rely on shooting skills. I have killed ducks and geese with just about every brand you can think of. They all work, some are dirty and require more cleaning maintenance, some are faster and require aim/lead adjustment, some are "waterproof" and some have crazy ideas about shot size or shape and colors.

The bottom line is you should buy what you can afford to shoot and practice with it. If it's a dirty shell that still kills birds but requires more gun maintenance so be it. There is no reason to be fooled into designer shot shells that are outside of your budget. If you can afford the expensive stuff shoot it, and if not, don't worry about it! They all kill and they will all work. It's like a new GF, you just have to get to know them and then decided if you want to keep them around.     

That is a great post and I agree with you. Out of anything I would just suggest people to get out and pattern their gun if switching and especially if switching choke combinations. They all perform a little different.

Yeah, choke selection is a whole other conversation.

[Special T]

When Walmart had Winchester steel on clearance I purchased 3.5 cases of #2 3" for $7 a box. Ill make them work and hone my barrel before the season!