Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?

[actionshooter]

I'm primarily a modern firearm hunter so don't have a dog in this fight, but I think I would have a pretty hard time shooting MOA at 400 yards with a 4x scope which is equivalent to a 1x scope at 100 yards. A 1x at 150 yards would be like a 4x at 600 yards. It seems to me that would make a pretty small sight picture of the animal.

That sounds like way to much common sense.... can't be right.. LOL

[bobcat]

100% against scopes on muzzleloaders. I've hunted muzzleloader season in Washington since 1984. Scopes being legal will ruin it for me. I really doubt that they will be legal, but if so, I'll be selling my muzzleloader and will only hunt modern. I like my scoped rifles, but muzzleloaders just aren't muzzleloaders with a scope mounted on top, in my mind. If it does happen it will hopefully make modern seasons less crowded.

[Alan K]

The reality is that 4 MOA works just fine on an elk at 300 yards.    I wouldn't say I'm the best shot in the world but I can do 4 MOA all day long at 200 with my peep/globe prone. With a fixed cross hair in a scope, no perfect alignment needed, 300 would be a piece of cake. 

[dilleytech]

I'm primarily a modern firearm hunter so don't have a dog in this fight, but I think I would have a pretty hard time shooting MOA at 400 yards with a 4x scope which is equivalent to a 1x scope at 100 yards. A 1x at 150 yards would be like a 4x at 600 yards. It seems to me that would make a pretty small sight picture of the animal.

Me too. But at least you don’t need to be able to shoot MOA to kill and animal.

[actionshooter]

The reality is that 4 MOA works just fine on an elk at 300 yards.    I wouldn't say I'm the best shot in the world but I can do 4 MOA all day long at 200 with my peep/globe prone. With a fixed cross hair in a scope, no perfect alignment needed, 300 would be a piece of cake. 

4 MOA at 300yards is 12".... Only speaking for myself here, but I have to do better than that.

[dilleytech]

Well the seasons can't get much smaller, and scope or not muzzys take a bit more practice than buying a box of shells off the shelf and maybe shooting once a year. 

Not really. Specially with the wonderful internet. Where you can look up exactly what to shoot for your gun, shoot it 5 times and be zero’d. Look up the drop of your load and dial your scope as needed or use the BDC.

[Alan K]

I think most folks who group 12" all day long when looking at 18" vitals would take the shot. More power to you if you need to group a golf ball before taking a shot, but I'd guess you're in a very small group there. The rules open things up to everyone, and not everyone has that high of a standard. In fact I'd hazard a guess that very few do.

We have folks posting 200+ yard muzzy deer kills without scopes, and I know it's not the topic, but 80+ yard archery shots on animals. At some point the line has to be drawn on the technology for the supposedly primitive seasons.

[actionshooter]

I think most folks who group 12" all day long when looking at 18" vitals would take the shot. More power to you if you need to group a golf ball before taking a shot, but I'd guess you're in a very small group there. The rules open things up to everyone, and not everyone has that high of a standard. In fact I'd hazard a guess that very few do.

We have folks posting 200+ yard muzzy deer kills without scopes, and I know it's not the topic, but 80+ yard archery shots on animals. At some point the line has to be drawn on the technology for the supposedly primitive seasons.

I agree that people would take questionable shots with a scope on a muzzy at a farther distance than without, but I also think the same people take the same questionable shot with anything. 

[BOOM!!]

I hope like heck they won’t allow scopes of any kind, we will loose too much in the long run. But if they do allow 1x scopes and I believe they just might, will, looks like I’m in the market for a 1x scope and I can tell you this, there aren’t very many options out there

[Karl Blanchard]

I hope like heck they won’t allow scopes of any kind, we will loose too much in the long run. But if they do allow 1x scopes and I believe they just might, will, looks like I’m in the market for a 1x scope and I can tell you this, there aren’t very many options out there

I don't think there are any options at all that aren't a holographic type scope  i did a search and couldn't find any

[Alan K]

Everyone's effective range increases with scopes though, even at 1x. Someone comfortable at 75 yards with Tru glo sights that cover the animal any farther than that now has a nice fine cross hair and feels comfortable to 125. Those at 100 comfortable to 150. Those at 150 now 200, and on up. Greater effective range translates to more harvest.

I sure don't see the woods flush with animals anywhere close to how they used to be just 10-15 years ago. If we do continue to modernize the so called primitives, I hope seasons are adjusted accordingly.

I don't know that there are any 1x's out there either, but it wouldn't take a scope manufacturer any time to develop one and have it out in a year or two. I'd bet we see them getting made with BDC type reticles too, something like 25 yard hash mark increments.  When a market opens up like this, it will be filled.

[actionshooter]

I hope like heck they won’t allow scopes of any kind, we will loose too much in the long run. But if they do allow 1x scopes and I believe they just might, will, looks like I’m in the market for a 1x scope and I can tell you this, there aren’t very many options out there

I don't think there are any options at all that aren't a holographic type scope  i did a search and couldn't find any

There isn't much out there right now.... there have been some that are now discontinued from Vortex who had one that I know of and Burris has made 2-3 different models through the years.   I wouldn't expect any manufactures  to jump on a straight 1x either, there just isn't enough demand.

[Dan-o]

The reality is that 4 MOA works just fine on an elk at 300 yards.    I wouldn't say I'm the best shot in the world but I can do 4 MOA all day long at 200 with my peep/globe prone. With a fixed cross hair in a scope, no perfect alignment needed, 300 would be a piece of cake. 

4 MOA at 300yards is 12".... Only speaking for myself here, but I have to do better than that.

Agreed.   
4 MOA is probably OK for 100 yards.

At 300 yards, it's somewhere between a clean miss, a terrible wound or a lucky kill.

[Alan K]

Am I missing something? Putting a bullet in a 12" circle over an elks vitals is somewhere between a clean miss, terrible wound, or lucky kill?

[Dan-o]

Am I missing something? Putting a bullet in a 12" circle over an elks vitals is somewhere between a clean miss, terrible wound, or lucky kill?

First off, your 12" circle is the radius, not the diameter.    4 MOA at 300 yards would make for a circle bigger than 24" diameter.
That 24" diameter circle is what you'd be placing over the elk's vitals at that range.

Even if your aim was perfect, and assuming you aimed 2/3's of the way down right behind the shoulder, that could put a bullet a lot of places you don't want it to be.