First pointer tips

[huntnfmly]

Hello all in may I will be picking up my first pointer (French Brittany) and just curious for those who have trained pointers if you have any tips.
I can do all of the obedience training I did that with my springer but really did not have the area or know how to do the bird work.
Would it be good to find a trainer to do that after the obedience?
Is a trainer that trains different breeds  best I heard quicksilver kennels RJ is good and at what age would be best?
Or a trainer that only trains one breed?
Thank you for any insight and tips

[GWP]

If the trainer is versed in various dog they ‘should’ be able to switch up. The obedience and crate training is the basic foundation for any style, so it sounds like you are good there. Some basic tracking training can be fun and rewarding and can be done at home starting as a very young pup.
Good luck!

[huntnfmly]

Thank you for the reply
Would tracking drills be like it sounds ?
Leave a trail of sent and see if they follow it?

[Kola16]

Training a dog is easy (for me at least), BUT you have to know how to train a dog, especially a pointing dog. You can very easily learn how to train any pointing dog, but it takes a lot of effort in learning how to train the dog. You have to spend many hours reading books and watching videos to learn what to do. And especially what not to do so your pup does not learn stuff inadvertently that it shouldn't. There is no way we could give you the tips you would in a write-up on a forum. There is a lot! But dogs can very easily be trained if you pick up a good pointing dog book or DVD series, there is just a lot of time involved. For me, it is worth training my own dog since I find a lot of pride in it. If you do not want to invest a lot of time in learning how to train a dog though, trainers are obviously a great option.

I will give you one tip though instead of just sending you off packing to books or a trainer From the first day you bring your pup home and everyday for the first year, take your pup on, "The Walk." The pup will learn more on its own by the walk, then pretty much any other training drill. It is THE most important drill and starts when you bring the pup home. Here is what you do:

Take your pup to a place that is like a place you will be hunting at, or better yet the places you will be hunting. Farm fields, tall grass, forests (if you want to grouse hunt), etc. When you get out of the truck, put your pup down and just start walking. NO LEASH! If your pup doesn't come at first, give them a little encouragement, ("here, come on, lets go") in an excited manor. Once the pup starts moving with you give them an excited, "good dog" for their effort and just go on a little hike. Short 10 minute walks when they're a couple months old, but increase it to 20-30 minutes when they're capable. Just walk. Let them explore, sniff, find things, navigate obstacles. Do not help them in anyway or pause your walk for the pup or anything. Let them figure out on their own that they have to keep up to you, they have to navigate, stumps, fallen trees, prickly bushes, creeks, terrain...all on their own. You should not be telling them anything either like, "come on, here" or anything. That was only for the walk the first day. Actually you should be silent since every sound you make should mean something to the dog, not just noise like the teachers in Peanuts.

One more tip, it is never the dog's fault if it does not know how to do something, or doesn't get what you are trying to teach it. It is your fault or whoever is teaching it. Never the dog's fault. Never get mad at the dog. The dog should see 2 emotions from you. Very pleased for when they do something you want them to do, or straight-faced, no emotion for when they did not. Never mad, upset or displeased. Keep a positive attitude!

Good luck, I hope this helped! This is less than 1% of what you need to know to train a dog

[Kola16]

Would tracking drills be like it sounds ?
Leave a trail of sent and see if they follow it?

Ya I would definitely suggest getting a book or DVD series for sure You want natural scent. Meaning from a live bird running around, not a bottle of bird scent or a clipped pheasant wing that you drug through the yard. You can do that for a couple days if you really want, but past that the pup is not going to learn anything new. Your dog isn't hunting bottles of scent, or dead birds. It is hunting live ones. Your dog can smell where you have stepped. It can smell that you have handled the pheasant wing. It can smell all of that and teaching it to find those items will teach your dog next to nothing about finding real birds. You need to take your dog on, "The Walk" as mentioned above where there are wild birds for it to find. When it is young, you can substitute wild birds with live birds you planted like quail. Quail are cheap, but you can use other game birds too. All of which will be deeper explained in a good book

[longrange7mm]

I will give you one tip though instead of just sending you off packing to books or a trainer From the first day you bring your pup home and everyday for the first year, take your pup on, "The Walk." The pup will learn more on its own by the walk, then pretty much any other training drill. It is THE most important drill and starts when you bring the pup home. Here is what you do:

Take your pup to a place that is like a place you will be hunting at, or better yet the places you will be hunting. Farm fields, tall grass, forests (if you want to grouse hunt), etc. When you get out of the truck, put your pup down and just start walking. NO LEASH! If your pup doesn't come at first, give them a little encouragement, ("here, come on, lets go") in an excited manor. Once the pup starts moving with you give them an excited, "good dog" for their effort and just go on a little hike. Short 10 minute walks when they're a couple months old, but increase it to 20-30 minutes when they're capable. Just walk. Let them explore, sniff, find things, navigate obstacles. Do not help them in anyway or pause your walk for the pup or anything. Let them figure out on their own that they have to keep up to you, they have to navigate, stumps, fallen trees, prickly bushes, creeks, terrain...all on their own. You should not be telling them anything either like, "come on, here" or anything. That was only for the walk the first day. Actually you should be silent since every sound you make should mean something to the dog, not just noise like the teachers in Peanuts.

One more tip, it is never the dog's fault if it does not know how to do something, or doesn't get what you are trying to teach it. It is your fault or whoever is teaching it. Never the dog's fault. Never get mad at the dog. The dog should see 2 emotions from you. Very pleased for when they do something you want them to do, or straight-faced, no emotion for when they did not. Never mad, upset or displeased. Keep a positive attitude!

THIS! 

You will never teach a dog to hunt, that is instinct. You can only teach it the manor in which you expect it to hunt. I run setters and I've found the best method of training is exposure and positive reinforcement. The worst thing you can do is the "lets see if hes gun shy drill!" I never shoot over a pup until they are mentally stimulated by a bird. That first year I never shoot birds that are wild up, If you have the will power to not shoot birds that get up wild you will create a team mentality with your dog and be forever thankful you sacrificed a few birds early on. 

[GWP]

Thank you for the reply
Would tracking drills be like it sounds ?
Leave a trail of sent and see if they follow it?

Yes. First, as was stated, keep everything fun. You are playing a fun game with your dog, no corrections during this. You need to get VERY excited and happy when they do ANYTHING you like. It is a stimulation for them to do that.
Cheese works good for this. For a very young pup have a small 'chunk' in one hand and two 'tiny' piece's in the other to leave at the beginning and the end. Couple times a day of this game until they are 'getting it' and you can move on to bigger and better things.
You don't want the pup to see you lay the line, but not a crisis if a very young dog does see you at first.
Take the bigger piece and draw a line 'maybe' a foot long on the ground. Straight line. Up against the edge of something at first. If you do it outside you will not have to clean up cheese 'smear'.
You may even just put a tiny piece on the ground, point at it (I mean almost touch it at first) and say "Find it". They may not 'get it' at first and wander around. Stay there, keep your finger on the ground and when they come back around, say it again. When they eat it say "Good Boy! Or Girl, good dog, whatever. Just do it excited! Woo Hoo!
Remember, this is a game. Have self control. Wait for them to get it. ALWAYS. Any harsh correction and they may stop and shut down and not want to do it again. I accidentally whacked a dog we were training at the EXACT wrong time and it took WEEKS to get them back to where we had been. It happens, but try not to do that.
Once they find the beginning QUICKLY draw your finger down the line to the other piece. I mean QUICKLY. If they go down the line to the other, get excited. NOT LOUD. At least not at first. Just excited!
As they pick up on this game, you can start extending the line a foot or so at a time, then around corners. Shorten the line again for that because it is new and different.
 

[huntnfmly]

Thank you guys for all the info and time on your replies
I really enjoyed training my springer I had him trained to whistle and the tone on his collar for remote sits quartering direction changes blind retrieves and hand signals. I had him introduced to birds and guns with Richard at Tuxedo kennels that was along time ago and just recently had to have him put to sleep so I’m really looking forward to the training and getting him out in the field my 8 yr old grandson is looking to it as well
Thanks again
I just reread the replies again The cheese deal sounds like a good thing and as the 1% remark that is definitely spot on for sure there is soo much to learn

[huntnfmly]

I’ve been watching some YouTube channels of trainers using the clicker method to start with.
Any opinions on this or experience with it?

[Kola16]

I’ve been watching some YouTube channels of trainers using the clicker method to start with.
Any opinions on this or experience with it?

Youtube channels is a dangerous route. You need to pick one complete system of training, and stick with that system throughout the entire training. Not just take a little bit from this person, a little bit from that person, and a little bit from another. Find ONE COMPLETE training system/person, and take all (or at least most) techniques from that one system. So if you find a single good Youtube channel, stick with that one channel and do what they say. I am not sure if there is something like that on Youtube, but there might be. If there is not a Youtube channel that guides you from start to finish, buy a full DVD series.

In regards to clicker training, if that is what the ONE training system/ONE trainer says to do, then do it. Clicker training is used by many different trainers with success. I have never had the need to use clicker training, since I just say, "good girl" emphatically, and never have to give them any treat or anything the dog just knows I am pleased with them from that, "good girl." It also makes it so I don't have to carry around a clicker all the time, especially in the field when I'm trying to hunt. But again, if that is what the ONE COMPLETE training system tell you to do, then by all means do it!

The reason for one complete training system is that dog training is like building a house. You want to build one complete house from start to finish. Training from different training systems is like laying the concrete slab for one house, then building the house frame for a house that was made to be much larger than the concrete slab. Then building a roof with the wrong shape for the frame. Eventually, you will have multiple different house pieces that do not mesh together. In other words not very helpful. A complete training system is constantly building on itself, and not meant to build on other training systems. There are things the dog needs to know at the end of training that will only be taught at the beginning of that single training system. Little minute but extremely important details. "The Walk" as I talked about above is a very universal training activity, but most drills past that, you need to conduct using one complete system.

There are WAY more than one way to train a dog. Hope that helps!

[GWP]

One easy way to get a dog (not until they are an older puppy) used to gun sounds is take something he really enjoys, say, tennis ball retrieving, go early to the trap range 10 minutes BEFORE they open, AND a fair distance away, and start playing ball. When the shooting starts they will (usually) be 'interested' and maybe a little 'worried', but you remain calm, don't coddle them, but just call for the retrieve of the ball. Praise them when they bring it to you and keep going. Over a few trips time you can get a little closer. Even just a walk will work, but something they enjoy will help to take their mind off of the shooting.
Banging pans (lightly at first) while they are eating is also a good way to get them used to loud sudden noise and not reacting to it, and can be done at home.
I drive 40 miles each way to do the 'trap range training' and it has made the shooting aspect not a big deal to them.
Funny story:
I had done this training for a pup and he had progressed to where he had just gotten his first bird in training. There is some ponds at the trap range I was using and took him there for a swim. The FIRST shot that happened he made a bee line to the trap range to get the bird... The people on the trap line were not amused, but stopped shooting, which let the dog 'get his sensability' back, hear my call, and come back.
I was pretty tickled with that particular dog that he showed that kind of drive and that he had so quickly associated the shooting with geting a bird.

[huntnfmly]

Thanks again guys

The clicker is only the beginning of the training then you introduce the vibration on e collar and then stimulation instead of the pressure on pressure off of the slip lead.
No carrying the clicker into the field hunting
The tip of choosing 1 and sticking to it is spot on I’ve been comparing different kennel channels to see if they back up the others on that technique

[ribka]

great advice

Training a dog is easy (for me at least), BUT you have to know how to train a dog, especially a pointing dog. You can very easily learn how to train any pointing dog, but it takes a lot of effort in learning how to train the dog. You have to spend many hours reading books and watching videos to learn what to do. And especially what not to do so your pup does not learn stuff inadvertently that it shouldn't. There is no way we could give you the tips you would in a write-up on a forum. There is a lot! But dogs can very easily be trained if you pick up a good pointing dog book or DVD series, there is just a lot of time involved. For me, it is worth training my own dog since I find a lot of pride in it. If you do not want to invest a lot of time in learning how to train a dog though, trainers are obviously a great option.

I will give you one tip though instead of just sending you off packing to books or a trainer From the first day you bring your pup home and everyday for the first year, take your pup on, "The Walk." The pup will learn more on its own by the walk, then pretty much any other training drill. It is THE most important drill and starts when you bring the pup home. Here is what you do:

Take your pup to a place that is like a place you will be hunting at, or better yet the places you will be hunting. Farm fields, tall grass, forests (if you want to grouse hunt), etc. When you get out of the truck, put your pup down and just start walking. NO LEASH! If your pup doesn't come at first, give them a little encouragement, ("here, come on, lets go") in an excited manor. Once the pup starts moving with you give them an excited, "good dog" for their effort and just go on a little hike. Short 10 minute walks when they're a couple months old, but increase it to 20-30 minutes when they're capable. Just walk. Let them explore, sniff, find things, navigate obstacles. Do not help them in anyway or pause your walk for the pup or anything. Let them figure out on their own that they have to keep up to you, they have to navigate, stumps, fallen trees, prickly bushes, creeks, terrain...all on their own. You should not be telling them anything either like, "come on, here" or anything. That was only for the walk the first day. Actually you should be silent since every sound you make should mean something to the dog, not just noise like the teachers in Peanuts.

One more tip, it is never the dog's fault if it does not know how to do something, or doesn't get what you are trying to teach it. It is your fault or whoever is teaching it. Never the dog's fault. Never get mad at the dog. The dog should see 2 emotions from you. Very pleased for when they do something you want them to do, or straight-faced, no emotion for when they did not. Never mad, upset or displeased. Keep a positive attitude!

Good luck, I hope this helped! This is less than 1% of what you need to know to train a dog

[wildweeds]

Tips......
Don't even start in with a wing and a fishing pole, don't teach sit till later, don't shoot birds that are not pointed (this one will be tough, as the French brittanys I've been around were all very slow in showing the instinct to point).Don't over do anything, trying a lesson that's been bungled immediately reinforces bad result. .... best tip ..... attend RJ 's training weekends, he has one per month.

[huntnfmly]

Tips......
Don't even start in with a wing and a fishing pole, don't teach sit till later, don't shoot birds that are not pointed (this one will be tough, as the French brittanys I've been around were all very slow in showing the instinct to point).Don't over do anything, trying a lesson that's been bungled immediately reinforces bad result. .... best tip ..... attend RJ 's training weekends, he has one per month.

Thank you
I left RJ a message a few weeks ago and have got no response yet

[Bwana Bob]

I bought the Perfect Start Perfect finish DVD. An awesome DVD but pricy. You will be able to train your dog using it. I trained 5 Brits before I bought the DVD but it sure helped on my curent dog.
Brits are real smart and unless you get a stuborn one they're easy to train. Where did you get you French Brit from?
Good luck on training your dog.

[huntnfmly]

I bought the Perfect Start Perfect finish DVD. An awesome DVD but pricy. You will be able to train your dog using it. I trained 5 Brits before I bought the DVD but it sure helped on my curent dog.
Brits are real smart and unless you get a stuborn one they're easy to train. Where did you get you French Brit from?
Good luck on training your dog.

Thanks for the tip

I’m picking him up from a new breeder in  Mt Vernon.This actually is only her second litterI seen her add on gun dogs website and called and talked to her for about a half hr seemed very nice. The grandma is from France and the grandpa is from Spain from what she was saying and the pedigree chart from the AKC shows.

[muledhunter]

We followed standing stones YouTube series. The clicker works awesome and take all emotion out of the equation. It is simple to transition out of the clicker as well.

[huntnfmly]

We followed standing stones YouTube series. The clicker works awesome and take all emotion out of the equation. It is simple to transition out of the clicker as well.

Standing stone is the  one I’ve been watching as well

[high_hunter]

Another vote for SS if doing self training.  I also like Jeff Kings youtube series for something a little different.  In the same boat as you training my first pointer (Griffon), had only done labs in the past so good luck!

No personal experience with RJ, but my buddy had a his lab trained up by him ~2 years ago and has been very happy. 

PM sent about the MV breader info.

-HH

[huntnfmly]

Another vote for SS if doing self training.  I also like Jeff Kings youtube series for something a little different.  In the same boat as you training my first pointer (Griffon), had only done labs in the past so good luck!

No personal experience with RJ, but my buddy had a his lab trained up by him ~2 years ago and has been very happy. 

PM sent about the MV breader info.

-HH

Another vote for SS if doing self training.  I also like Jeff Kings youtube series for something a little different.  In the same boat as you training my first pointer (Griffon), had only done labs in the past so good luck!

No personal experience with RJ, but my buddy had a his lab trained up by him ~2 years ago and has been very happy. 

PM sent about the MV breader info.

-HH

Pm returned with info