Grizz poaching in ID

[ganghis]

With all the recent talk of poaching on this site, thought it would be interesting to share how one guy got caught in ID.  An interesting precedent for sure.

https://blog.eastmans.com/grizzly-poached-google-solves-case/

[RightPlace-RightTime]

Crazy on technology. Glad they got caught.

[Duckslayer89]

Let’s not publicly hang someone before they are actually found guilty. Probably self defense and scared to report it. Shot with a pistol close range?  Wish they put in the effort on managing deer and elk as they do predators.

[full choke]

How does IDFG get a warrant to force Google to release information on cell phones in the area? That doesn't seem entirely legal?
There must be more to that request.

[trophyhunt]

Doesn’t really get under my skin when predators that are protected that shouldn’t be get shot. Ehh, I’ll move on

[highside74]

But the FBI can't figure out who the guy wearing red on Jan 6th in DC is. Uh huh suuuure

[LDennis24]

Don't need a warrant with Google. They will willingly throw you under the bus.

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/government-orders-google-to-track-anyone-who-searches-certain-terms/

[snake]

Let’s not publicly hang someone before they are actually found guilty. Probably self defense and scared to report it. Shot with a pistol close range?  Wish they put in the effort on managing deer and elk as they do predators.

Totally agree. Article is making a lot of assumptions. Horribly written in my opinion.  I have had this discussion with buddies of mine and many have said it would probably be easier to not report it even if its self defense than reporting it and going through an investigation.  No good deed goes unpunished.

[HUNTIN4SIX]

Case is not solved!  Just showed the dude was there.  More sensational, quick judgement thinking.   

[KFhunter]

According to the article the bear was killed with a 5.7mm 

That's a pistol. FN Five-Seven


One does not generally go out to poach grizz with a small caliber pistol.

[wags]

Case is not solved!  Just showed the dude was there.  More sensational, quick judgement thinking.   

Agree.
While I'm not trying to justify whoever poached this bear, I'm betting any attorney who is worth 2 cents will get these guys cleared.
Unless something has changed in our legal system or there is more to this story, I don't believe that law enforcement can just go on a fishing expedition with a blanket search of random devices that Google has record of. It would be different if law enforcement had probable cause to believe these guys are suspects and then went to Google to see if these guys had been in the area at the time of the bears death. But they can't just snoop on everyone and see who might fit their narrative, that is; were in the area at the time of the bears death.

[full choke]

According to the article the bear was killed with a 5.7mm 

That's a pistol. FN Five-Seven


One does not generally go out to poach grizz with a small caliber pistol.

But it does say something about the 5.7 round! 

[carpsniperg2]

According to the article the bear was killed with a 5.7mm 

That's a pistol. FN Five-Seven


One does not generally go out to poach grizz with a small caliber pistol.

5.7x28 is a cartridge they also make rifles chambered for it like the ps90.

[RB]

Totally random question, if a phone is in "Airplane Mode" is it still being tracked?

[KFhunter]

According to the article the bear was killed with a 5.7mm 

That's a pistol. FN Five-Seven


One does not generally go out to poach grizz with a small caliber pistol.

5.7x28 is a cartridge they also make rifles chambered for it like the ps90.

Improbable the bear was shot with a PS90 

[carpsniperg2]

You never know! Can’t rule it out can’t automatically say it was a pistol  highly likely but there is a few rifle offerings. Semi autos and a bolt gun or 2 as well. I know more then a few people that own them.

[KFhunter]

Totally random question, if a phone is in "Airplane Mode" is it still being tracked?

Airplane mode would not stop the tracking.

[KFhunter]

You never know! Can’t rule it out can’t automatically say it was a pistol  highly likely but there is a few rifle offerings. Semi autos and a bolt gun or 2 as well. I know more then a few people that own them.

The article said the "poachers" destroyed the weapon, a pistol.   Any other pistols use 5.7mm ?

[bigtex]

How does IDFG get a warrant to force Google to release information on cell phones in the area? That doesn't seem entirely legal?
There must be more to that request.

It's a geo-fence warrant. Google it and you'll see all sorts of articles on them.

[KFhunter]

If the 10 shots are frontal shots, and there's no roads nearby so impossible to shoot from a vehicle

I'm calling it self defense, unless IDFG has specific knowledge and needed the geofence hit to get another warrant....


No one is gonna go on foot and gun down a grizz in pistol range on purpose.


The way media is today, I can totally understand not wanting your names blasted out on the news too...get Rittenhoused

[carpsniperg2]

No idea. Thought the same thing.

Said a bear cub was found dead nearby. So don't know if it died from gun shot or just died cause the sow got killed. If it was that young and close to the den "from when the event happened probably the later" she could have for sure been aggressive to justify lethal force. Don't know if it was intentional poaching, or they just got scared and didnt turn it in and tried to destroy the weapon fearing problems. 

[X-Force]

Totally random question, if a phone is in "Airplane Mode" is it still being tracked?

Definitely still works, same reason onX works in airplane mode. The phone still knows where it is.

[X-Force]

If you ever get into a self defense situation, definitely report it. If the shooter did pull the trigger to defend himself he didn’t do himself any favors by not reporting, getting rid of the gun and ammo. 

I have pictures of a Montana hunter who had to defend himself against a grizz this year. He reported it, LEO interviewed him, walked the scene and documented it and that was it. Definitely a scary situation.

[Jingles]

Guess it's time to go back to the Fijifilm cameras and leave the electronics at home

[LDennis24]

That's why they stopped making phones where you can take out the battery. They were told to do it by the Government. They need to know where you are going at all times with that phone. They track you using your license plate as well. They have readers on intersections and on police vehicles. "You didn't bring your phone but you went through town at these intersections to the area it happened then 45 minutes later you came back through town the opposite way. According to the readers and your registration this is your vehicle correct?" Washington plates have a hologram in the middle that helps the camera recognize it as a plate. I met the guy who helped develope them. He also helped design the laptops the military uses that can be dropped from several stories and not break. Old guy who hides in an old farm house now and doesn't get out much anymore. He said the government is obsessed with tracking people. That was 12 yrs ago he told me this stuff would be happening. Now all the sudden, no more removable batteries and my plate has a weird circular hologram in the middle! 

[Special T]

Totally random question, if a phone is in "Airplane Mode" is it still being tracked?

Yes. Many studies on this have been done.

[WAcoyotehunter]

Case is not solved!  Just showed the dude was there.  More sensational, quick judgement thinking.   

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/12/father-and-son-charged-in-death-of-mother-grizzly-bear/

Sounds like they confessed

[HUNTIN4SIX]

Case is not solved!  Just showed the dude was there.  More sensational, quick judgement thinking.   

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/12/father-and-son-charged-in-death-of-mother-grizzly-bear/
Sounds like they confessed

Uh oh....now we know....

[wags]

If the father and son had just refused to talk to law enforcement the case would have gone nowhere.
For some reason people want to talk to the police.

t=5s

[Duckslayer89]

That article... “momma grizzly”... very scientific...

[logola512c]

I always laugh a little when I read the comments on the news stories.  Inevitably the commenters say that poachers should never be allowed to hunt again or get any hunting licenses.  Do they not realize that hunting without a license is almost literally the definition of poaching...  It's like not letting someone get a driver's license  that is arrested multiple times for driving without a license...

[Duckslayer89]

I always laugh a little when I read the comments on the news stories.  Inevitably the commenters say that poachers should never be allowed to hunt again or get any hunting licenses.  Do they not realize that hunting without a license is almost literally the definition of poaching...  It's like not letting someone get a driver's license  that is arrested multiple times for driving without a license...

I know it’s laughable but also not funny they always talk like the poachers are just hunters who shot something out of season. Throwing us all in the same little group

[OutHouse]

How does IDFG get a warrant to force Google to release information on cell phones in the area? That doesn't seem entirely legal?
There must be more to that request.

All they have to do is present sufficient facts to the judge who signs the warrant. Here, the officer probably detailed his knowledge of how google can track electronic devices and thus he has reasonable grounds (probable cause) to believe that the suspect's device could be identified by google. Judge signs, serve the warrant on google, and presto chango all devices in the area at the time are identified. They do this in criminal cases because they can get a general idea of where your phone was by triangulating with cell towers. They serve a warrant on your provider in that instance.

[OutHouse]

Case is not solved!  Just showed the dude was there.  More sensational, quick judgement thinking.   

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/12/father-and-son-charged-in-death-of-mother-grizzly-bear/

Sounds like they confessed

Looks like they confessed to shooting it but I didn't see that they presented any justification. Time will tell.

[pickardjw]

Case is not solved!  Just showed the dude was there.  More sensational, quick judgement thinking.   

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/12/father-and-son-charged-in-death-of-mother-grizzly-bear/

Sounds like they confessed

Looks like they confessed to shooting it but I didn't see that they presented any justification. Time will tell.

Yeah that's what I saw. That's a way better article too. I assume one could claim self defense and get off with a slap on the wrist for not reporting with a good lawyer. But they said that they both took shots at the bear with the gun so...that doesn't look good. Sow with cub is definitely a situation where self defense would be probable.

[pianoman9701]

If the father and son had just refused to talk to law enforcement the case would have gone nowhere.
For some reason people want to talk to the police.

t=5s

The people who most screw themselves by talking to police are usually those who support the police and think they're just being good citizens by being truthful. You see this all the time in true crime where a guy becomes a suspect because of how forthcoming he is to the LE, instead of just saying "it's time for a lawyer".

[ganghis]

That's a great video.  I guess my point in starting this thread was less about guilt or innocence of the accused, but more about the technology that was used to catch them.  I really doubt there's many people that would think "hey I'm going to turn my cell off and go around and try to find a wolf to shoot even though its illegal."  More likely, it would be a random encounter when you're doing ordinary things with your phone (like using onX or whatever).  So folks should just be aware of the technology that might be brought to bear against them if they make the decision to shoot. 

[logola512c]

That's a great video.  I guess my point in starting this thread was less about guilt or innocence of the accused, but more about the technology that was used to catch them.  I really doubt there's many people that would think "hey I'm going to turn my cell off and go around and try to find a wolf to shoot even though its illegal."  More likely, it would be a random encounter when you're doing ordinary things with your phone (like using onX or whatever).  So folks should just be aware of the technology that might be brought to bear against them if they make the decision to shoot.

Can the reverse also be true, though?  Can they use a cell phone that is powered up to find someone that is lost or injured?  Or is this a GPS log that is uploaded after a person gets back into coverage? Just wondering if there's any good that can come of it.

[Bullkllr]

This is one reason I only use burners.

[Dan-o]

This is one reason I only use burners.

You have FN5.7 burners?

That gets expensive.

[Special T]

This is one reason I only use burners.

This discussion takes you down a forensic rabbit hole. If you've called anyone or txt then the correlation data can triangulate you.  I'm not sure you can cover up something like this event. It would have to be planned an even then you would have to know as much as a cop does.

[snake]

Friend of mines dad, who spent 10 years in prison. Gave me some advice, he said " If you are guilty, hire a good lawyer.  If you are innocent, hire a good lawyer."

[pianoman9701]

Friend of mines dad, who spent 10 years in prison. Gave me some advice, he said " If you are guilty, hire a good lawyer.  If you are innocent, hire a good lawyer."

 

[Broomd]

But the FBI can't figure out who the guy wearing red on Jan 6th in DC is. Uh huh suuuure

Yep, we're living in dark times.