Tribe Sues Seattle City Lights Over Fish Passage on Skagit Dams

[Stein]

So lets just say for arguments sake that Seattle City Light is correct and salmon couldnt het past the damn.

The environmental compassionate, culturally inclusive city is willing to piss away 230 million a year on NOT fixing the homeless problem... Howevery they are too cheap to expand the potential spawning grounds of salmon?  What about the starving orcas?  What about tribes? I mean come on you arnt willing to spread some cheddar around for all the things you profess to embrace? Dosnt seem very inclusive to me! Not willing to put you money where your mouth is
?

Yeah, lots of slacktivism in Seattle.  How many millions of gallons of raw sewage end up in PS every year?  Same with Portland.  They push to penalize other people but don't seem to mind their own activities or clean up their act.  It's always the other guy that is the problem.

Unfortunately the only way they move is when they get sued.

[Angry Perch]

If sockeye make it up Tumwater Canyon, I this this one looks pretty doable.

[Kola16]

The video I posted really doesn’t actually show the height and force of the water coming down that narrow gap, and the Skagit doesn’t thru there at all unless they are releasing overflow water.

It goes thru the mountain in a tunnel out the power house in Newhalem.😉

So you attached a video that "doesn't actually show" anything? You forgot to read all the posts. It's obvious you work for Seattle

[salt n sage90]

Both parties are acting in their own best interest...strictly financial.
You can bet that the tribe would have their nets stretching across the river as high up as they can go as soon as fish started up there.

Im not saying fish didn't go up there or did. But I see no reason why if those dams weren't there and Gorge, Diablo, Ross and Ruby Arm were just stretches of river instead of lakes that salmon wouldn't be up there.
Rivers rage and wane, salmon make it up some treacherous stuff.
Just my thought.

[davew]

The issue is not just fish passage through the canyon.  The dams block the movement of gravel and woody debris below them.  There is almost no spawning habitat from the dams all the way down to Bacon Creek.  Another issue is how the irregular flow through the dams dewaters spawning beds below.  It's complicated. 

[pianoman9701]

If that part of the river is only for overflow, couldn't they modify it to run constantly without destroying the cleanest, greenest, and easiest maintained power source we have; hydro? I'm all about salmon conservation and would like to see other options. At a time when our federal government is eliminating petroleum and coal production, we shouldn't be looking to eliminate hydropower as well. 

[Fishmaker57]

So nobody wants to discuss the elephant in the room? I cut my teeth fishing winter Steelhead on the Skagit, have ran the entire river at one point or another, and have fished every species it has to offer. In the late 70's and early 80's, the gravel bars between Lyman and Concrete were piled two feet high with Chum carcasses when fishing for Winter Steelhead. The run averaged 250,000 each year. Through the 50's and 60's, native winter Steelhead numbers were huge; sportsmen would average 20,000 or more each year. There were at least 15 guides working the river when I fished it.

Today, less the 25,000 Chum make it up the river, and native winter Steelhead are almost gone. Yes, poor logging practices didn't help, but that really isn't as much of an issue today. The 5 different Tribes that fish the Skagit are only doing what they have been allowed to do, but blaming the dams for the decline is laughable and absurd. Those dams were there long before the decline in runs. It's not that I am against re-introduction above the dams, if indeed there were fish spawning in those areas, but the gorge is as close to a physical barrier as I have seen, given the amount of water that would flow down it unrestricted.

 

[JimmyHoffa]

So nobody wants to discuss the elephant in the room? I cut my teeth fishing winter Steelhead on the Skagit, have ran the entire river at one point or another, and have fished every species it has to offer. In the late 70's and early 80's, the gravel bars between Lyman and Concrete were piled two feet high with Chum carcasses when fishing for Winter Steelhead. The run averaged 250,000 each year. Through the 50's and 60's, native winter Steelhead numbers were huge; sportsmen would average 20,000 or more each year. There were at least 15 guides working the river when I fished it.

Today, less the 25,000 Chum make it up the river, and native winter Steelhead are almost gone. Yes, poor logging practices didn't help, but that really isn't as much of an issue today. The 5 different Tribes that fish the Skagit are only doing what they have been allowed to do, but blaming the dams for the decline is laughable and absurd. Those dams were there long before the decline in runs. It's not that I am against re-introduction above the dams, if indeed there were fish spawning in those areas, but the gorge is as close to a physical barrier as I have seen, given the amount of water that would flow down it unrestricted.

 

Yeah, there are a number of rivers out there with no barriers.  They were once a similar description to your post too, now are quite empty.
Had one neighbor that hikes a lot telling me about liking to walk around by all the healthy rivers, and getting all the fresh air and seeing the clean water.  Didn't like it too much when I said if the river actually was healthy he wouldn't want to breathe the air because of all the rotting carcasses.

[Kola16]

Today, less the 25,000 Chum make it up the river, and native winter Steelhead are almost gone. Yes, poor logging practices didn't help, but that really isn't as much of an issue today. The 5 different Tribes that fish the Skagit are only doing what they have been allowed to do, but blaming the dams for the decline is laughable and absurd. Those dams were there long before the decline in runs. It's not that I am against re-introduction above the dams, if indeed there were fish spawning in those areas, but the gorge is as close to a physical barrier as I have seen, given the amount of water that would flow down it unrestricted.

 

So are you solely blaming the Natives for Skagit River's salmon and steelhead decline?

- Our nearby international waters have unrestricted salmon fishing from Asian countries
- Derelict nets litter river mouths from idiots throwing hay bails down the river
- We have an overpopulation of pinnipeds
- Our river levels are lowering and water temperatures rising
- We have lost the majority of our spawning and rearing habitat
- The natural flow of the river is completely altered
- There are 3 dams blocking sensational spawning grounds if they can be reached
- Non-Native commercial fishing nets

To call the Natives the sole cause of salmon decline is ignorant when any one of the reasons above could be solely blamed. In all likelihood:; however,  it is a combination of multiple reasons. It is scary how many problems our salmon face and is really a miracle they still exist. The amount of fish that Natives take is dismal compared to the amount of salmon taken from reasons listed above.

Can you blame the Natives for wanting fish runs like we/they had? I know I want more fish!

[Widgeondeke]

going mathematical

from Newhalem to the Gorge dam(2.35 miles), the elevation loss(225') is equal to 1-3/4" of elevation for every 12" traveled.

From Newhalem to Ross dam(10 miles)  it drops 810' and maintains close to 1-1/2" every 12"

Someone mentioned Tumwater Canyon, so here are those #'s. It is 11.25 miles and drops 540', so that is only 1" every 12", similar to many roofs and ADA ramps.
It is 50-75% less slope than the upper Skagit

I am sure some areas are less and some are more 

I am not blaming anyone, just got slightly technical. there might be a river somewhere with 1.5-1.75" of slope where fish travel to spawn.
width of channel would be another factor as are snow & rainfall amounts

[Fishmaker57]

Today, less the 25,000 Chum make it up the river, and native winter Steelhead are almost gone. Yes, poor logging practices didn't help, but that really isn't as much of an issue today. The 5 different Tribes that fish the Skagit are only doing what they have been allowed to do, but blaming the dams for the decline is laughable and absurd. Those dams were there long before the decline in runs. It's not that I am against re-introduction above the dams, if indeed there were fish spawning in those areas, but the gorge is as close to a physical barrier as I have seen, given the amount of water that would flow down it unrestricted.

 

So are you solely blaming the Natives for Skagit River's salmon and steelhead decline?

- Our nearby international waters have unrestricted salmon fishing from Asian countries
- Derelict nets litter river mouths from idiots throwing hay bails down the river
- We have an overpopulation of pinnipeds
- Our river levels are lowering and water temperatures rising
- We have lost the majority of our spawning and rearing habitat
- The natural flow of the river is completely altered
- There are 3 dams blocking sensational spawning grounds if they can be reached
- Non-Native commercial fishing nets

To call the Natives the sole cause of salmon decline is ignorant when any one of the reasons above could be solely blamed. In all likelihood:; however,  it is a combination of multiple reasons. It is scary how many problems our salmon face and is really a miracle they still exist. The amount of fish that Natives take is dismal compared to the amount of salmon taken from reasons listed above.

Can you blame the Natives for wanting fish runs like we/they had? I know I want more fish!

Solely? No, as you stated there are other mitigating factors, but they Tribes are the only ones drift netting the Chum  on the Skagit for an egg fishery. I have witnessed this many times. They throw the dead males overboard, strip the females eggs, then throw theater carcass in the river. This may be a past practice now, but it was rampant in years past. Yes, we have an over population of pinnipeds, and open ocean commercial fishing is an issue, but based on their locations, they don't impact Chum or Steelhead as much as Chinook and Sockeye.

Again, I agree there is habitat above the blocked area, but IF Salmon and Steelhead ever existed in those locations, it's a moot point. The flow of the river has actually improved due to flow requirements included in the last relicensing effort. The habitat, due to the placement of woody debris and rearing side channels, is as good as it's ever been in the last 50 years. In a large part, the Tribes are behind this effort as well, and I am glad they are working every angle to restore runs, but overfishing in the river has played a large part of the decline. Non-native commercial fishing opportunities are so limited in Puget Sound that it really doesn't factor into the discussion.

I am not ignorant of any of these points, as I have spent the last 32 years involved in Salmon and Steelhead every day.

[2MANY]

What group over fished the southern sound of its crab population???
Man it was once good.


It's time to tear the dams out and let Elon plug his Tesla into the generator on his exercise bike.

[Special T]

The issue is not just fish passage through the canyon.  The dams block the movement of gravel and woody debris below them.  There is almost no spawning habitat from the dams all the way down to Bacon Creek.  Another issue is how the irregular flow through the dams dewaters spawning beds below.  It's complicated.

No shortage of wood or gravel on the Skagit moving around Below them. I personally despise talk of removing damns and the clean energy they they provide. The irony for me is just too thick that Seatlle is fighting some mitigation. The whoosh system seems to be an exceptional mitigation tool that seems effective, reasonable cost, and is home grown adaptable technology.

[2MANY]

Whoosh the bill right to the power companies who have profited on the destruction of our fishing resource.

[Blacktail Sniper]

Whoosh the bill right to the power companies who have profited on the destruction of our fishing resource.

Who will, in order to offset those costs raise their rates....