Frustrated with Washington BHA event Free the Snake

[wags]

I can't believe that there are still guys out there buying into BHA b.s..
They are going to bite you in the arse.

[KFhunter]

The subject matter is no different than suggesting that we remove commercial fishing from the lower Columbia.  Both removal of commercial fishing and removal of dams will have an impact on returning salmon and steelhead runs on the snake, but we only ever talk about removal of dams. 

You obviously don't know about the big license buyback and license retirement going on right now in the Washington gillnet fleet.  In fact this is at least the 4th round of license reductions in Washington that I know of.  This on top of all kinds of gear restrictions on the fleet and reduced fishing time. So while I'm not offended by what you wrote, I'm also not surprised by your ignorance on the subject either.

In addition to dams we look at cormorant, pinniped and habitat. As long as your rhetoric fits your narrative, preach on.

Maybe you can speak to this Tbar,  how interested would the tribes be in reclaiming historical lands once the dams were breached?   

Do you anticipate the tribes allowing high and dry irrigation pumps to be extended down to the new waterline, potentially for quite a distance over old flood plains that were once utilized by the tribes for fishing and whatnot? 

[Tbar]

The subject matter is no different than suggesting that we remove commercial fishing from the lower Columbia.  Both removal of commercial fishing and removal of dams will have an impact on returning salmon and steelhead runs on the snake, but we only ever talk about removal of dams. 

You obviously don't know about the big license buyback and license retirement going on right now in the Washington gillnet fleet.  In fact this is at least the 4th round of license reductions in Washington that I know of.  This on top of all kinds of gear restrictions on the fleet and reduced fishing time. So while I'm not offended by what you wrote, I'm also not surprised by your ignorance on the subject either.

In addition to dams we look at cormorant, pinniped and habitat. As long as your rhetoric fits your narrative, preach on.

Maybe you can speak to this Tbar,  how interested would the tribes be in reclaiming historical lands once the dams were breached?   

Do you anticipate the tribes allowing high and dry irrigation pumps to be extended down to the new waterline, potentially for quite a distance over old flood plains that were once utilized by the tribes for fishing and whatnot?

I would have to separate dreams and reality.  I think the realist in me needs to look at a cost benefit analysis to come to a conclusion of improved ecological function would be a significant positive. I would love land back but don't confuse optimism with facts. I don't have skin in the game of the snake but my understanding is the ecological function is the goal. 

[WRENCHMAN]

Why don't they go back to stocking the rivers and streams with fish like they used to?
We will never be 100% electric with the grid and technology we have now.

[MeepDog]

People in these debates always forget about nuclear. It's the superior power source no matter how you look at it. It runs at 100 capacity, doesn't dramatically alter its environment, and has a massive output/sq mile.

Also, running a generator to power an electric car is still better than driving a combustion engine car. High output generators are more efficient than your engine at producing and transferring power.

I don't think people forget about nuclear it's just that it's pretty much a non starter. I highly doubt they will be building any new nuclear plants in washington anytime soon.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

They're building new nuclear plants on the Hanford site within 5 years. Small modular reactors from x energy. Ballpark 400MW

[whacker1]

The subject matter is no different than suggesting that we remove commercial fishing from the lower Columbia.  Both removal of commercial fishing and removal of dams will have an impact on returning salmon and steelhead runs on the snake, but we only ever talk about removal of dams. 

You obviously don't know about the big license buyback and license retirement going on right now in the Washington gillnet fleet.  In fact this is at least the 4th round of license reductions in Washington that I know of.  This on top of all kinds of gear restrictions on the fleet and reduced fishing time. So while I'm not offended by what you wrote, I'm also not surprised by your ignorance on the subject either.

There is a lot to unpack in all of the posts so far.   Thank you for the comments on the gillnet buyback.   i am glad to hear that it has continued, i was not familiar with the 4th round.  i thought they were done.  You are correct that i am half ignorant to the subject, because it is rarely talked about.

to continue to the other comments on subject matter:
Hydro is the most reliable and consistent power generation we have with the exception of Nuclear, natural gas, and coal fired steam plants that can run full time.   solar, wind are good for loads, but we are not there to be the main supported replacement to hydro, and natural gas.  i wish we had the support to invest in Nuclear.

carbon footprint will go up if the agriculture is shipped downstream by way of train vs barge. 

There were lots of other great points brought up.  Improved fish ladders in the snake would be more effective than grand coulee as an example, lower rise and the water is still flowing down the 4 snake pools at a fairly fast turnover.   Water temps will likely rise and peak time without the dams in the peak of summer, because they draw water from lower portions of the intake on the dam versus the top of the surface water, and not to mention allowing more water to move at what would be lower water times at peak of summer.   Not every dam and reservoir is created that way, but the water turnover in the snake is pretty fast between the power production and the opening of the locks to move boats/barges.

For the record:
i am not against the removal of the dams, but we can't have the conversation without the conversation of the replacement of the power production and understanding what it does to Washington's largest export, agriculture/food production.

I am a BHA life member.  I do appreciate all of the things that other mentioned on what Washington BHA.  What i don't appreciate is providing only one side to the debate and providing a platform that one sided debate.

[fishngamereaper]

People in these debates always forget about nuclear. It's the superior power source no matter how you look at it. It runs at 100 capacity, doesn't dramatically alter its environment, and has a massive output/sq mile.

Also, running a generator to power an electric car is still better than driving a combustion engine car. High output generators are more efficient than your engine at producing and transferring power.

I don't think people forget about nuclear it's just that it's pretty much a non starter. I highly doubt they will be building any new nuclear plants in washington anytime soon.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

They're building new nuclear plants on the Hanford site within 5 years. Small modular reactors from x energy. Ballpark 400MW

Hopefully at some point...just maybe they figure out how to stop the waste tanks from leaking.

But apparently the feds aren't to concerned about a few hundred gallons of nuke waste leaching into the soil that surrounds the same eco system they are apparently trying to revive with dam removal...

[whacker1]

People in these debates always forget about nuclear. It's the superior power source no matter how you look at it. It runs at 100 capacity, doesn't dramatically alter its environment, and has a massive output/sq mile.

Also, running a generator to power an electric car is still better than driving a combustion engine car. High output generators are more efficient than your engine at producing and transferring power.

I don't think people forget about nuclear it's just that it's pretty much a non starter. I highly doubt they will be building any new nuclear plants in washington anytime soon.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

They're building new nuclear plants on the Hanford site within 5 years. Small modular reactors from x energy. Ballpark 400MW

Hopefully at some point...just maybe they figure out how to stop the waste tanks from leaking.

But apparently the feds aren't to concerned about a few hundred gallons of nuke waste leaching into the soil that surrounds the same eco system they are apparently trying to revive with dam removal...

Yes, we definitely have a focus on robbing peter to pay Paul.   i hope that waste is sorted out in this next attempt at Nuclear.

[fishngamereaper]

If we are all in for returning eco systems to their natural state can we start by removing the Ballard locks....seems like a no brainier...

[KopperBuck]

The downstream effects will be huge as well. There isn’t the infrastructure to push grain farther down river. Those barge facilities aren’t equipped to handle the extra bushels that would need to move off the Snake. Hell, this year alone many of the elevators around the area plugged because of a higher yields and barge hiccups.

Then you have the exporters. BN/UP are already a nightmare. There’s not going to be extra infrastructure. You’re either starving for trains, or they shoved so many down your throat they put you on embargo. Not all the exporters have truck pits, nor do they want them in many cases. Too much security issue and I seriously doubt Portland/Vancouver is looking for extra semi traffic.

And the added freight is gonna hurt. I know some instances where facilities have rail access to direct ship to exporters, but it’s cheaper to take it out of an elevator, put it on a truck, and ship to a barge facility than put on rail. Not to mention the reliability factor. Exporters rely on a mix of delivery systems to be able to make export obligations. This would be a mess and give AUS and other exporters an added freight advantage, which they already have.


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[Sandberm]

As far as I know, the waste at Hanford has nothing to do with current power production. Its all from past weapons production.

So there is no correlation between the leaking tanks and building new nuclear power plants. There is a "what to do" with used rods however.

Anybody listen to Brett Weinsteins worries about nuclear energy? Bad guys hack into our power grid or a solar flare takes out the power grid for an extended period of time, no power to move cooling water through the reactor and it melts down. Huge disaster.

[buckfvr]

KF HUNTER

Maybe you can speak to this Tbar,  how interested would the tribes be in reclaiming historical lands once the dams were breached?   

Do you anticipate the tribes allowing high and dry irrigation pumps to be extended down to the new waterline, potentially for quite a distance over old flood plains that were once utilized by the tribes for fishing and whatnot?
[/quote]


I think in this feeling out process they are trying to determine who the most susceptible group is and then in the end, the weakest link gets the shaft.  There will be winners and there will be losers.

[MeepDog]

As far as I know, the waste at Hanford has nothing to do with current power production. Its all from past weapons production.

So there is no correlation between the leaking tanks and building new nuclear power plants. There is a "what to do" with used rods however.

Anybody listen to Brett Weinsteins worries about nuclear energy? Bad guys hack into our power grid or a solar flare takes out the power grid for an extended period of time, no power to move cooling water through the reactor and it melts down. Huge disaster.

That's an issue with the older style rod based reactors. The newer small modulars use a ball style uranium that doesn't melt down.

[whacker1]

As far as I know, the waste at Hanford has nothing to do with current power production. Its all from past weapons production.

So there is no correlation between the leaking tanks and building new nuclear power plants. There is a "what to do" with used rods however.

Anybody listen to Brett Weinsteins worries about nuclear energy? Bad guys hack into our power grid or a solar flare takes out the power grid for an extended period of time, no power to move cooling water through the reactor and it melts down. Huge disaster.

That's an issue with the older style rod based reactors. The newer small modulars use a ball style uranium that doesn't melt down.

Do you have a link or something for this info?  i would like to educate myself on ball style uranium as that is a component i was not familiar.

[MeepDog]

As far as I know, the waste at Hanford has nothing to do with current power production. Its all from past weapons production.

So there is no correlation between the leaking tanks and building new nuclear power plants. There is a "what to do" with used rods however.

Anybody listen to Brett Weinsteins worries about nuclear energy? Bad guys hack into our power grid or a solar flare takes out the power grid for an extended period of time, no power to move cooling water through the reactor and it melts down. Huge disaster.

That's an issue with the older style rod based reactors. The newer small modulars use a ball style uranium that doesn't melt down.

Do you have a link or something for this info?  i would like to educate myself on ball style uranium as that is a component i was not familiar.

https://x-energy.com/fuel/triso-x
This is the style and manufacturer they are full tilt moving to put on the Hanford site. Small modular reactor Wikipedia page is also fascinating.