STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS

[bobcat]

Hunting should be about the meat it provides, in my opinion, and not a trophy. So for that reason I like hunting for antlerless animals, especially for kids. My 16 year old daughter got a blacktail doe last week, and Monday evening she cooked up some backstrap steaks from her deer for dinner for the family. That's what it's all about to me, kids knowing where meat comes from.

The GMU in which she drew the youth permit has a very high population of deer yet still only has 15 youth doe permits. It's probably around 90% private land. The deer she harvested was just under three miles from our house, which I very much appreciated with the high gas prices and the fact that my truck gets about 13 miles per gallon. We hunted three days, Saturday, Sunday, and then the following Friday.

I really don't think taking 15 does out of this entire GMU will have any effect on overall numbers. Actually it won't even be that many since the success rate won't be 100%. Last year it was 42% and only 5 deer were taken out of 15 permits.

I do understand mule deer are not doing as well, but blacktails are very abundant in many areas, and harvesting some does is just proper wildlife management.

[GWP]

No more deer hunting.
If you want to solve a population problem, then solve a population problem.

Do NOT bring logic or reason into any forum.
Are you crazy?!?!

[Sandberm]

The does in my area are in no danger from me as it seems to be near impossible to get within 30 yards with my recurve.

Every year I am amazed at the awareness the does have. There sense of something not being right has me laughing and shaking my head at least a few times every season as I get busted.

[idahohuntr]

Some thoughts...

Females in deer and elk populations are largely what controls the population abundance/productivity.  One male (buck or bull) can breed a lot of females in a year, so they are rarely the limiting factor.  Female harvest is one of the biggest tools wildlife managers have for addressing herd abundance.

Folks blame the WDFW and hunters for harvesting/allowing harvest of females - but the elephant in the room in ALL western states is social tolerance.  There are a lot of commerical ag groups and wildlife conflict issues that drive wildlife management decisions.  Elk and deer eating crops, getting into hay, orchards, vineyards all reduce social tolerance and often result in wildlife managers increasing female harvest...with the express purpose of reducing the number of elk and deer on the landscape. 

In addition to social tolerance, available winter range is much lower than historical availability in a lot of states and wildlife managers often do not want populations to get to a point that they damage (overgraze) available winter range.  So, they use female harvest to help ensure populations do not exceed what the winter range can sustainably support.

To minimize the hair on fire of those that like to screech incessantly/only about predators - I want to also be clear that hunter harvest of females is often additive to predator harvest of females (and calves/fawns), so Washington's reduction of bear harvest, no meaningful cougar harvest, and the expansion of wolves also contributes to reduced productivity and in some areas of the state this is very problematic.  That said - a large swath of GMU's in WA - and many units in other western states with much more liberal predator harvest - still have far lower big game herds as a result of social tolerance (e.g., farm bureaus advocating reduced herds) and winter range loss.

Low social tolerance and winter range reduction = more female harvest by wildlife managers/hunters.

[boneaddict]

I swear I had that in my original post, but re wrote 10 times to mellow it out.  Wildlife management is the only reason for it, and in that case GREAT.   I wasn’t aware of any areas in Washington state with abundant deer.    It used to be supported with whitetails, but with black tongue etc, I’m just not seeing it there.   
It’s interesting how many messages I get from westsiders looking to hunt the east side.   It sounds like all the deer are over there.

[boneaddict]

No more deer hunting.
If you want to solve a population problem, then solve a population problem.

Believe it or not, that’s where we are headed, and exactly where the wolf agenda comes to play.  That’s a whole different topic of its own.   

In the meantime….this isn’t a bag of yeast.   Kill the primary culture, it’s done. 
Stop killing the baby makers!   
(Except on the westside I guess.  There are lots of deer over there).  (Until the wolves figure it out anyway)

[dwils233]

To be fair, I'd say the WDFW has drastically reduced the harvest of antlerless deer and elk in the last few years.

Absolutely, they are a slow moving bullet trying to hit a moving target. Regs are out before bluetongue hits, so there is some discretion needed by hunters but overall, the department does adjust to support populations goals as best they can with the info available. They slashed antlerless tags over the last year or two

[kramman]

No need to put down those that do something legally. Every new hunter that I hunt with be it my kids nephews wife  or friends that have wanted to try, I state its a personal decision to kill an animal. I will not second guess your decision. You and you alone have to pull the trigger or release the arrow.

This just further divides the hunting community.  Even though I agree less does should be harvested.

[boneaddict]

I was raised in a household ( thank you Idabooner) that applied for doe tags every year and then ceremoniously ripped them up.   We also ate plenty of venison. 
I continued that tradition for sometime.   I finally decided  to stop only because I was giving money to the worser evil or contributing to the cause. 

[Woodchuck]

No need to put down those that do something legally. Every new hunter that I hunt with be it my kids nephews wife  or friends that have wanted to try, I state its a personal decision to kill an animal. I will not second guess your decision. You and you alone have to pull the trigger or release the arrow.

This just further divides the hunting community.  Even though I agree less does should be harvested.

[bobcat]

2018
Total deer harvest:  27,846
Buck harvest:  22,540
Doe harvest:  5,306

2021
Total deer harvest:  24,318
Buck harvest:  21,665
Doe harvest:  2,653

So it appears that in three years there was a fairly large decrease in the number of does taken. In fact, it's exactly 50%.

[jrebel]

Bone.....Have you harvested two black bear this year or taken out a couple yotes....maybe a cougar?  In my opinion, the largest threat to our ungulate population is uncontrolled predation.  I am not a trophy hunter so I believe if it is legal, taking a doe is 100% appropriate.  If you really want to make a difference in numbers all hunters need to start whacking predators.  We need to also push legislation that stops the assault on ungulates winter grounds...houses, roads, airports, etc. etc. etc.  all play a role in the death of our herds.  Until we take meaningful steps to help our herds.....the decline in numbers will not stop. 

I hear what your saying and can agree to a certain degree....but to put a blanket statement / rant on a forum that belittles "all" who take "baby makers" and insinuate that is the problem with our diminishing deer population is a little off base (in my opinion).  It is clear you value large antlered bucks and bulls.....hell it appears to be your way of life, but not everyone shares that sentiment.  Before you flame me.....I will self admit, other than bear, I have not harvested a big game animal in state in 3-4 years (maybe longer).  I take my kids out and if a doe is on their agenda we whack a doe.  I'm not about to raise my kids as trophy / horn hunters.  Post like this, though not attacking any one person......have no place in my opinion.  I like your pics and appreciate reading your post most of the time, but this one has really struck a nerve.  Yeah, you didn't address it to any "one" person....instead you addressed all who value hunting tradition, meat, time in the field, success of the hunt, etc....and tarnished their success.  A trophy to me is a freezer full of clean wild game to sustain my family through the year. 

[elkboy]

Some thoughts...

Females in deer and elk populations are largely what controls the population abundance/productivity.  One male (buck or bull) can breed a lot of females in a year, so they are rarely the limiting factor.  Female harvest is one of the biggest tools wildlife managers have for addressing herd abundance.

Folks blame the WDFW and hunters for harvesting/allowing harvest of females - but the elephant in the room in ALL western states is social tolerance.  There are a lot of commerical ag groups and wildlife conflict issues that drive wildlife management decisions.  Elk and deer eating crops, getting into hay, orchards, vineyards all reduce social tolerance and often result in wildlife managers increasing female harvest...with the express purpose of reducing the number of elk and deer on the landscape. 

In addition to social tolerance, available winter range is much lower than historical availability in a lot of states and wildlife managers often do not want populations to get to a point that they damage (overgraze) available winter range.  So, they use female harvest to help ensure populations do not exceed what the winter range can sustainably support.

To minimize the hair on fire of those that like to screech incessantly/only about predators - I want to also be clear that hunter harvest of females is often additive to predator harvest of females (and calves/fawns), so Washington's reduction of bear harvest, no meaningful cougar harvest, and the expansion of wolves also contributes to reduced productivity and in some areas of the state this is very problematic.  That said - a large swath of GMU's in WA - and many units in other western states with much more liberal predator harvest - still have far lower big game herds as a result of social tolerance (e.g., farm bureaus advocating reduced herds) and winter range loss.

Low social tolerance and winter range reduction = more female harvest by wildlife managers/hunters.

Spot on, idahohuntr. 

I drew antlerless second deer for Almota last fall, and I sent my tag back in (WDFW gave me my second deer points back), in addition to not hunting my OTC deer tag.  I think there is a role for the hunter to be observant of phenomena like bluetongue/EHD impacts, and choosing to not hunt when appropriate.  No bashing of anyone who drew and chose to hunt it (only five tags handed out, at any rate, for that unit), but that was a personal decision that aligned with my values and what I was observing. 

In the past, I have taken a lot of does (whitetail and blacktail) where it was permitted, usually with muzzleloader.  But it was in areas, and at times, with good deer numbers.  Whether doe harvest is a constraint on a population is a question that we should expect WDFW and their biologists to answer, and give us clear direction in the form of altered regulations.  If they are not doing that, and boneaddict's post suggests he believes that they are not, then they must be held accountable (I know, many will say they'll never be held accountable for anything, etc.). 

[300rum]

I would never let my kids shoot does or cows, that's how I was raised....

[GWP]

The more people move into an area, the more the critters get pushed out and concentrated in the other area’s. Once those areas get the numbers knocked down to ‘sustainable numbers’ there are less for hunters and predators to share.
Combined with more people going after them, it is a slow downward spiral.
There was a spot in EWa the wife and I stopped hunting because the number of people that started showing up was crazy. We gave it a few years then went back to see ‘how it was going’.
It was nuts. Garbage, people driving were they were not supposed to and shooting up pretty much everything. It was WAY worse then it had been the last time we were there.
We recently moved to a more rural area. Deer and elk seen regularly. Deer and elk hit fairly often as well.
Supposed to be one of the fastest growing populations in the State. More people, less critters. Just a matter of time.
People are not taught about gathering their own food, or make the process out to be  ‘bad’.
Not sure what the ‘end all’ answer is, but I would say we are our own worst enemy by not getting involved in ‘the process’, instead leaving it to those that ‘will’ get involved. There are groups that have figured out that is the way to control the outcome to THEIR satisfaction. And it is working, in many area’s.
I don’t want to get involved either. So, I can’t really complain about the outcome. There ya go!