Free: Contests & Raffles.
I'm convinced mother nature, in the form of hard winters and blue tongue or other diseases has the largest impact on ungulate herd numbers. In a single month our herds can go from robust to dismal. Humans certainly can have big impacts via hunting, auto collisions, land use, letting dogs run loose, etc., but human impacts are nothing like the hard courses of nature!You can look at all the cities and towns that have deer infestations, farmer fields full of deer and elk, oilfields with trophy elk and deer, and it shows humans can be compatible with ungulates. Consistently through the years my best hunting is mostly on leased ranch lands that are heavily grazed by cattle and sheep. One of my best elk hunts and also a good deer hunt is also one of the most productive oil and gas fields in the west. Yet I can go into excellent winter range areas in northeast WA that used to be full of deer in late winter and its hard to find any deer, further proof that winter range is not the most limiting factor.With all of that said, if you talk to most biologists in hunting oriented states (not Washington) they will tell you that antlerless hunting is used to regulate herd size. Because many Washington herds are probably at or near all time lows I have to say at this time I somewhat agree with boneaddict because every doe in these areas is needed for fawning.Here's where I have to disagree, once the WDFW sets a season and includes xxx doe permits in an area, I don't blame anyone for applying for the permit, if they don't get it someone else will? Like many other hunters I like to eat wild game, I put in for lots of antlerless tags through the years and will continue to do so. Perhaps if hunters could all agree to all throw away doe tags in areas with low deer or elk numbers that could make a difference, honestly I don't think that would ever happen.It's going to be a very slow deer recovery this time due to the unprecedented predator footprint in Washington, I doubt herds will ever reach the numbers they once were, with so many predators that mathematically seems impossible.
Well, it's kind of impossible to get more than about a 5:1 buck doe ratio, and one buck can cover more than 5 doesSo I think doe's not getting covered is a myth. Unless they're barren or had a male twin, and I doubt there's a whole lot of barren does. Some just loose their fawns immediately year after year because a bear (typically) or other predator has their birthing location pegged and get them every year not long after it's dropped.
Quote from: KFhunter on October 21, 2022, 08:24:17 PMWell, it's kind of impossible to get more than about a 5:1 buck doe ratio, and one buck can cover more than 5 doesSo I think doe's not getting covered is a myth. Unless they're barren or had a male twin, and I doubt there's a whole lot of barren does. Some just loose their fawns immediately year after year because a bear (typically) or other predator has their birthing location pegged and get them every year not long after it's dropped. The blanket bomb statements are what gets me. Where’s it impossible to get the 5:1 doe:buck ratio? How many bucks will a doe cover in a year? What’s a healthy buck:doe ratio? What is the ratio in, let’s say, NE WA?I’ll add that I’ve never killed a doe in Washington, I’ve also never applied for a doe tag and probably never will. I did draw a cow elk tag this year but I didn’t fill it because of my own stupid rookie amateur hour mistake. I’m not sure if I’ll apply for cow tags again. I’m not sold on them. My point in this is that I’m not a fan of killing baby makers personally, but I also don’t think a blanket bomb “don’t do it” mentality is right either. There’s a time and a place. I know the s word(science) has been frowned upon recently, but there’s some science to this.
The blanket bomb statements are what gets me. Where’s it impossible to get the 5:1 doe:buck ratio? How many bucks will a doe cover in a year? What’s a healthy buck:doe ratio? What is the ratio in, let’s say, NE WA?
Quote from: jackelope on October 22, 2022, 10:16:33 AMQuote from: KFhunter on October 21, 2022, 08:24:17 PMWell, it's kind of impossible to get more than about a 5:1 buck doe ratio, and one buck can cover more than 5 doesSo I think doe's not getting covered is a myth. Unless they're barren or had a male twin, and I doubt there's a whole lot of barren does. Some just loose their fawns immediately year after year because a bear (typically) or other predator has their birthing location pegged and get them every year not long after it's dropped. The blanket bomb statements are what gets me. Where’s it impossible to get the 5:1 doe:buck ratio? How many bucks will a doe cover in a year? What’s a healthy buck:doe ratio? What is the ratio in, let’s say, NE WA?I’ll add that I’ve never killed a doe in Washington, I’ve also never applied for a doe tag and probably never will. I did draw a cow elk tag this year but I didn’t fill it because of my own stupid rookie amateur hour mistake. I’m not sure if I’ll apply for cow tags again. I’m not sold on them. My point in this is that I’m not a fan of killing baby makers personally, but I also don’t think a blanket bomb “don’t do it” mentality is right either. There’s a time and a place. I know the s word(science) has been frowned upon recently, but there’s some science to this.It's maff man
QuoteThe blanket bomb statements are what gets me. Where’s it impossible to get the 5:1 doe:buck ratio? How many bucks will a doe cover in a year? What’s a healthy buck:doe ratio? What is the ratio in, let’s say, NE WA?I imagine it would especially with a cow tag in your pocket. Honestly wasn’t considering elk. They seem to be doing surprisingly well wherever I go. Idahunters point plays an important role with this. I was mostly focused on deer and Oil. I do know they are having recruitment issues due to predators for elk in some zones. I’d imagine the concept of not shooting momma is realistic a bit since they spend so much time and energy for folks not to shoot nanny’s versus Billy’s.Anyhow to answer your questionsI’m not sure in the whitetail units or Muley units there is a 1:5 ratio anywhere. I assume one doe breeds with one buck. not so for sheep, I filmed 10 different rams breed a ewe. healthy buck to doe management is as you stated 1:5. Or at least what management goal is. Some scientists say 1:1 is healthy, and 1:10 is acceptable. Anecdotally I think the ratio is closer to 1:10 Whereas managing to a desired buck to doe ratio, I don’t think the factor should be at this point with an overall population at a 20+ year low give or take one year, to shoot more does to make ratio. I’m curious what the experts think with cWD on the forfront if they want manage for more deer to account forexpected losses, or fewer deer to stall spread.
If you added even 10 or 20 does per year to my maff above that got hunted, you'll see the population go down substantially in 5 yearsIt's a snowball effect