Preference points

[trophyhunt]

I have to admit it, I kinda do feel like I deserve a tag after waiting 27 years of applying.  I guess that's wrong, but my young life is gone and the points sucked me in. 

[Duckslayer89]

I have to admit it, I kinda do feel like I deserve a tag after waiting 27 years of applying.  I guess that's wrong, but my young life is gone and the points sucked me in.

You could draw a tag just might not be THE one you want.

[trophyhunt]

I have to admit it, I kinda do feel like I deserve a tag after waiting 27 years of applying.  I guess that's wrong, but my young life is gone and the points sucked me in.

You could draw a tag just might not be THE one you want.

, very true.

[vandeman17]

This is just nuts.  People complaining about how the guy with 20 points can't draw, so let's go to the Idaho system.  Really?  Let's make the guy who's applied for 20 years have the same odds as the guy who passed hunter ed last week? 

Lots of benefits to a system with no points, but rewarding the people who have applied and not drawn for a long time is not one.

In most instances, having no point system actually improves overall odds for everyone, including that 20 point holder

[Mtnwalker]

This is just nuts.  People complaining about how the guy with 20 points can't draw, so let's go to the Idaho system.  Really?  Let's make the guy who's applied for 20 years have the same odds as the guy who passed hunter ed last week? 

Lots of benefits to a system with no points, but rewarding the people who have applied and not drawn for a long time is not one.

So the alternative then is to let the squared points continue to climb on up to 30, 40, or more so the youth who just passed hunters ed are so far behind they never have a realistic chance of drawing? Because boo-hoo I've been applying for 20 years I deserve a tag more than they do?

[Bob33]

I did a quick analysis of a hypothetical draw situation. The draw is for one permit. There are 1,000 applicants. Without a point system the odds of drawing a permit are 1 / 1000 (one in a thousand).

With a points system and the average applicant having ten points, an applicant with one point has a 1 in 100,000 odds while an applicant with 20 points has approximate odds of 1 in 250. The “breakeven” point is obviously ten: applicants with fewer than ten points have worse odds, while applicants with more than ten points would have better odds.

[BA Mongor]

So you're telling me there's a chance

[Threewolves]

So, in no point system would the people who drew never get to participate in the draw again? because after all they already had their chance. And the people  who have not drawn get to continue to participate in the draw until they do draw? Do you think that would be fair? Or do you want to keep putting in until you draw again and who gives a rats ass about those who didn't draw? OR the luck of the draw every year? Would that be fair to those who have invested over 25 years/

 We are talking Elk and Deer here, I think the other species are already once in a life time. Except cow moose.

I would be leaning towards luck of the draw every year on everything right after I get drawn on the Moose, Goat, Sheep. Maybe I get to use my 28 points (This year). 28 years is a long freaking time to have people come in behind you with less points and get drawn. Maybe there should just be a line starting with the people with the most points and everyone else can just GET IN LINE. Of course we are way past this.

Why should we care about a kid (and I will add  or new hunter) getting in on a special draw, when some one else has been waiting over a quarter of a century! The kid can hunt deer and elk over the counter and earn it just like the guy with 25 points did for 26 years. It will build character. Think about it this way, you would not have so many people with over 20 points, if people with less points were not drawn. Form a line, get in line. Lets go with the highest # of points alphabetically, my last name starts with A. 

Maybe we should be allowed to "Grandfather the points to our grandkids, the way it is going my son would not draw a hunt either. AS is it's a pyramid scheme and you got to play to win, eventually.....  Think how much the state could make by keeping this one going with half the allotment of tags AND having another one with the luck of the draw every year.

I usually just read these kinds of posts, decided to chime in. No real need to agree or disagree with me, I am running out of time, there are only so many sunsets left.

[vandeman17]

A person goes out and buys $50 dollars worth of lotto tickets and someone else goes out and buys $5. Obviously the person who bought $50 has better odds to win than then person who bought $5 but do they "deserve" it more because they spent more? I bet people in this scenario understand that its all a complete crap shoot as to who wins so why people in a BONUS POINT system feel they deserve a tag because of how long they have put in just doesn't make sense to me. I totally get it that we all want to finally draw something but unless somehow they move to some type of preference point system to reward years applying, it will always be just luck of the draw regardless of how many points you have.

[idahohuntr]

I don't see (in any system) where 2 minutes and a few $$, once a year, entitles anyone to anything.  Applying for 25 years in a row...great...sounds like you've had 25 chances to draw.  I say that as someone who has been applying in many states for more than 25 years...and I'd be happy to give up all my points if states dropped their ponzi schemes.

[vandeman17]

I don't see (in any system) where 2 minutes and a few $$, once a year, entitles anyone to anything.  Applying for 25 years in a row...great...sounds like you've had 25 chances to draw.  I say that as someone who has been applying in many states for more than 25 years...and I'd be happy to give up all my points if states dropped their ponzi schemes.

  x1000. I would give up all my points tomorrow if they went to random draw. I would be even more happy if they added in that you can only apply for deer/elk or OIL in a given year and not both. Super happy if they made you front the money for OIL too but that isn't required 

[M_ray]

This is just nuts.  People complaining about how the guy with 20 points can't draw, so let's go to the Idaho system.  Really?  Let's make the guy who's applied for 20 years have the same odds as the guy who passed hunter ed last week? 

Lots of benefits to a system with no points, but rewarding the people who have applied and not drawn for a long time is not one.

Yep exactly what we’re saying! because what you’re not taking into consideration is the guy with 20 points goes deeper and deeper down the point creep hole. His odds now are 1% and immediately go to 3-4% with a system like Idaho! The point is you are not getting rewarded right now for having more points and that is  the problem. If we were this wouldn’t even be a discussion.

 As some have said guys with 20 or more points in Wa may never draw. With a system like Idaho which you have to choose one species instead of our stupid diluted multiple choice system increases your odds from jump! and most draw every 3-5 yards on average or sooner in some units. Not to mention if you draw one your not eligible for that species the next year taking more people out of the pool further increasing your odds. So yeah that’s exactly what we’re talking about. Also in WA there are more people coming in with 0-1 point than there are the amount your max point is squared so every year there is a better chance one with no points will out draw you. So where again is the preference for the 20 year guy?

This mentality is why it will never change here in WA. Guys would rather sit with all their choices and crappy odds instead of doing the math cause more choices makes one feel they have a better chance when in reality the more choices dilutes the system for all.
 

I’ve drawn other states with 1-4 points or 0 in Some with no points and in Wa 7-18 points and never drawn an oil so there you go for comparison.
 

 

[High Climber]

This is just nuts.  People complaining about how the guy with 20 points can't draw, so let's go to the Idaho system.  Really?  Let's make the guy who's applied for 20 years have the same odds as the guy who passed hunter ed last week? 

Lots of benefits to a system with no points, but rewarding the people who have applied and not drawn for a long time is not one.

Yep exactly what we’re saying! because what you’re not taking into consideration is the guy with 20 points goes deeper and deeper down the point creep hole. His odds now are 1% and immediately go to 3-4% with a system like Idaho! The point is you are not getting rewarded right now for having more points and that is  the problem. If we were this wouldn’t even be a discussion.

 As some have said guys with 20 or more points in Wa may never draw. With a system like Idaho which you have to choose one species instead of our stupid diluted multiple choice system increases your odds from jump! and most draw every 3-5 yards on average or sooner in some units. Not to mention if you draw one your not eligible for that species the next year taking more people out of the pool further increasing your odds. So yeah that’s exactly what we’re talking about. Also in WA there are more people coming in with 0-1 point than there are the amount your max point is squared so every year there is a better chance one with no points will out draw you. So where again is the preference for the 20 year guy?

This mentality is why it will never change here in WA. Guys would rather sit with all their choices and crappy odds instead of doing the math cause more choices makes one feel they have a better chance when in reality the more choices dilutes the system for all.
 

I’ve drawn other states with 1-4 points or 0 in Some with no points and in Wa 7-18 points and never drawn an oil so there you go for comparison.

I’m not endorsing a point system here, but I did the math on the Tucannon Quality Archery elk tag. In 2021:
A guy with 20 points had 3.9% chance at a tag
If it was totally random, each person would have .86%

[WAcoueshunter]

Yep exactly what we’re saying! because what you’re not taking into consideration is the guy with 20 points goes deeper and deeper down the point creep hole. His odds now are 1% and immediately go to 3-4% with a system like Idaho!

Can you explain your math? 

[baker5150]

I don't see (in any system) where 2 minutes and a few $$, once a year, entitles anyone to anything.  Applying for 25 years in a row...great...sounds like you've had 25 chances to draw.  I say that as someone who has been applying in many states for more than 25 years...and I'd be happy to give up all my points if states dropped their ponzi schemes.

Guys put value to the points they receive.  They paid for them, and built them up over time, so they become inherently valued.

It's human nature to feel like a guys time and money are worth something, hence the entitlement.