Wolves eating all our deer

[bearpaw]

I would have to agree that it seems unlikely there would have been any released.

Many of us know that scattered wolves have been here for many years. There is documentation that the Idaho wolves are spreading rapidly into other states and it should be no surprise that some canadian wolves have moved in. Sooner or later individual wolves are going to mate and when that happens the wolf population is going to explode just as it did in Idaho, MT, and the midwest.

The DOW has even confirmed the photos of wolf pups in the Okanogan, so how many packs are there that they haven't confirmed? My guess is that there are several breeding pairs in WA and that in a few years we will be begging for management. As I have said many times before, we can live with them just like our northern neighbors live with them, as long as we are allowed to manage them at acceptable numbers for the available habititat.

Don't get me wrong, I wish they weren't here, but as someone else has said, and I agree "We must make the most of it." So let's be sure and get any sightings reported and documented so that management can take place when it is needed.

[Kain]

Everybody has good points here. Does anyone know if there is public anouncements anywhere when the game department transplants an animal. I'd like to have a link for it because it should be public information. The WDFW does not let everything they do out of the bag. If that was the case then there would still be a WDFW employee on this sight that could answer some of our questions for us.(someone called the guys boss and ratted him out)

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,27765.0.html
They post it when it is not an controversial animal.

[Kain]

Here is a reference to the study done to reintroduce wolves on the peninsula.

This is from the Defenders of Wildlife website.  There is a link to this group on the wolf section on the WDFW site.

http://www.defenders.org/resources/publications/programs_and_policy/wildlife_conservation/imperiled_species/wolf/places_for_wolves_2006.pdf

Another area once under consideration for potential wolf
recovery is Washington state’s Olympic Peninsula, particularly
the almost-1-million-acre Olympic National Park and adjacent
500,000-acre Olympic National Forest. Although gray wolves
from Canada probably could recolonize the Cascades as well
as the Selkirk Mountains in northeastern Washington on
their own, any wolf recovery in Olympic National Park would
require relocating animals. Too many people and too much
development in the Seattle-Tacoma area block wolf return to the
Olympic Peninsula without human intervention. A feasibility
study conducted for FWS by the University of Idaho found
that the Olympic Peninsula provides suffi cient suitable habitat
to support about 60 wolves (Ratti et al. 1999, Hosack 1997).
However, restoration efforts are not moving forward for several
reasons. These include concerns that proximity to people would
inhibit wolf dispersal, that the isolation of the area would limit
necessary genetic variability, and that wolves would have impacts
on deer and elk herds (see page 9).

[jackelope]

I've asked for various info from WDFW with a freedom of information act request and have been denied..........they are not an open and transparent operation especially when they have done something wrong.

This is very interesting, if they had not moved any wolves one would think they would be glad to say so.

i've asked and been told without hesitation. whether folks believe what they tell you seems to be the problem.

[Kain]

whether folks believe what they tell you seems to be the problem.

Yea I am finding it hard to trust a lot of what they say sometimes.  I have found many instances where the information from WDFW conflicts with other statements from them.  This could be intentional lies   or a case where they might know what they are talking about.  

[jackelope]

or it could be people just have it set in their heads that it's all lies and won't ever believe anything, including them stating that the sky is blue.

[wolfbait]

I've asked for various info from WDFW with a freedom of information act request and have been denied..........they are not an open and transparent operation especially when they have done something wrong.

This is very interesting, if they had not moved any wolves one would think they would be glad to say so.

We have a game warden here in the okanogan, and he was told that they planted the wolves in the methow valley, he was some upset about it as he don't like them wolves at all, so this kind of puts him in the middle of things. I wouldn't want to be him these days. Nother fellow, paid the 50 bucks to get the freedom of information, they have 60 days to shovel all the info. over, and they are dragging their feet. One thing that I do know is the last 8 wolves were for sure release in here, and from information on the others they were also released. As far as beleiving what the feds say or the wolf people, I wouldn't trust them for a minute.

i've asked and been told without hesitation. whether folks believe what they tell you seems to be the problem.

[wolfbait]

whether folks believe what they tell you seems to be the problem.

Yea I am finding it hard to trust a lot of what they say sometimes.  I have found many instances where the information from WDFW conflicts with other statements from them.  This could be intentional lies   or a case where they might know what they are talking about.  

It could be that the left hand don't know what the right hand is doing also. This game warden didn't know that they had planted them until it had already been done. There are more then a few biologist out there who disagreed with the wolf reintroduction as these wolves were coming into the lower 48 on their own, but they wouldn't have been established for another 30 to 60 years, which just wasn't fast enough for some peoples agenda.

[Kain]

or it could be people just have it set in their heads that it's all lies and won't ever believe anything, including them stating that the sky is blue.

Could be but I dont think I fall into that category.  I know what you are talking about though.  Like the WDFW "not being able to verify" wolves in Washington gets turned into them "denying" wolves here.  But there are instances where they bring it on themselves.  There is also things that just dont pass the smell test.  Like wolves being confirmed in Washington and Oregon on the same day.

http://www.wolfhaven.org/northwestregion.php

Early Sunday evening, the wolf pups and the recently collared male adult were seen on camera. They also recorded sounds of wolf pup howls. Biologists call the pack the ‘Lookout Pack,” and genetic (DNA) evidence shows they likely have moved in from British Columbia or Alberta, Canada, and not from the northern Rocky mountain region where 1,455 wolves currently are believed to reside. The alpha male is older than biologist expected to see.

And Oregon too!

Oregon confirmed a wolf pack that includes both adults and pups in a forested area of northern Union County on Friday, July 18, the same day the Lookout Pack was confirmed in Washington. This is the first evidence of multiple wolves and wolf reproduction in Oregon since wolves were extirpated from the state back in the mid-1940s. Biologists will continue to monitor the area and may also try to capture and radio-collar the wolves. See www.dfw.state.or.us/ for details.

Keep in mind this also happened right as they were trying to delist them.

They believe the wolves came from Canada which is totally possible.  But why hadnt they migrated sooner.  Why has the majority of wolf activity happened within the last ten-fifteen years?  Which is exactly when they started talking about reintroducing them on the peninsula and when they transplanted Canadian wolves to Yellowstone.  I might be paranoid but it just seems too coincidental.

[jackelope]

when was wdfw unable to confirm wolves here? how long ago?



the wolves here have canadian wolf dna...it's not that they believe or it's possible...it just is.

[Kain]

when was wdfw unable to confirm wolves here? how long ago?



the wolves here have canadian wolf dna...it's not that they believe or it's possible...it just is.

I only meant that they believe the migrated from Canada on their own.  I was referring to the quote above.

 http://www.wolfhaven.org/northwestregion.php

Wolves Among Us in Washington And Oregon!!!
July 18, 2008, will go down in history as the weekend for wolves in the Pacific Northwest! After hearing howls from both adult and juvenile wolves in early July in Washington’s Methow Valley, biologists captured and radio-collared two wolves on Friday, July 18. DNA testing confirmed that the animals are wolves and not hybrids, and they and their offspring represent the first wolf pack in Washington since they disappeared from the state in the 1930s.

I am not saying they didnt believe wolves were here.  I am referring to statements like the highlighted quote.  Makes it sound like there were no wolves here before that date.

 

[wolfbait]

When you think about it, it really doesn't matter if they planted them here or not, becuz they would have eventualy come into here from spokane way. But they wanted them here just a little faster then if they had to wait for them to get here. kind of like trying to put the fire out in the kitchen by backburning the livingroom, its all going to burn down sometime. Does kind of make a few people mad when the feds and wolf people lie to your face, they know you know they are lieing, and they seem to enjoy every minute of it. I did find an artical that makes good since from a biologist that worked on the wolf recovery in Idaho.

http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2009/0 … -solution/
Former Idaho Wildlife Biologist Ted Chu, Offers Wolf Management Solution
May 22, 2009


Ted Chu, a former wildlife biologist while living in Idaho, now resides in Oregon and offers an editorial at OregonLive about how to resolve the wolf management problems and keep landowners/ranchers happy.

The Legislature should make it legal for landowners to shoot wolves on their private property under any circumstances. Many wolf recovery supporters will knee-jerk howl at this notion, but it will ultimately work to the advantage of wolves. Had this approach been used right from the start in the Northern Rockies, I’m certain there would be just as many wolves alive as there are today, at much less taxpayer expense and social stress.

Individual wolves will still be killed, but under this approach the rest will get smart in a hurry and retreat to the public lands. This is where they belong and realistically is the only place they can survive and avoid trouble.

How dare anyone suggest such a reasonable solution!

Tom Remington

[wolfbait]

or it could be people just have it set in their heads that it's all lies and won't ever believe anything, including them stating that the sky is blue.

Could be but I dont think I fall into that category.  I know what you are talking about though.  Like the WDFW "not being able to verify" wolves in Washington gets turned into them "denying" wolves here.  But there are instances where they bring it on themselves.  There is also things that just dont pass the smell test.  Like wolves being confirmed in Washington and Oregon on the same day.

http://www.wolfhaven.org/northwestregion.php

Early Sunday evening, the wolf pups and the recently collared male adult were seen on camera. They also recorded sounds of wolf pup howls. Biologists call the pack the ‘Lookout Pack,” and genetic (DNA) evidence shows they likely have moved in from British Columbia or Alberta, Canada, and not from the northern Rocky mountain region where 1,455 wolves currently are believed to reside. The alpha male is older than biologist expected to see.

And Oregon too!

Oregon confirmed a wolf pack that includes both adults and pups in a forested area of northern Union County on Friday, July 18, the same day the Lookout Pack was confirmed in Washington. This is the first evidence of multiple wolves and wolf reproduction in Oregon since wolves were extirpated from the state back in the mid-1940s. Biologists will continue to monitor the area and may also try to capture and radio-collar the wolves. See www.dfw.state.or.us/ for details.

Keep in mind this also happened right as they were trying to delist them.

They believe the wolves came from Canada which is totally possible.  But why hadnt they migrated sooner.  Why has the majority of wolf activity happened within the last ten-fifteen years?  Which is exactly when they started talking about reintroducing them on the peninsula and when they transplanted Canadian wolves to Yellowstone.  I might be paranoid but it just seems too coincidental.

Thats a dandy Kain, you arn't paranoid, you just think for yourself. The feds claim it has been 70 years since there was a pack in here, but they couldn't find their butt with both hans and a mirror, the only way they ever find out about anything is if they did it or someone told them. There are a few of us who saw wolf packs over the years in this country but they never stayed here, and they were nothing like these canadian wolves. There's a bunch of us here that know exzackly how these wolves got here and they didn't hoof it here I can tell you that.

[jackelope]

when wdfw calls them a pack, they mean they are breeding, have established territories, etc. when they reach that point they are called a pack. the transients or loaners are the ones they have a hard time keeping track of.  i can tell you for fact that the wdfw did not deny wolf's presence nor did they have any problem confirming their presence at least before 7/18/08....

[Kain]

I agree with you.  I was stating that you were correct with your statement that some people wont believe anything the WDFW tells them.  I have heard on this site lots of time guys making a statement that the WDFW denies wolves were here.  When the truth was that the WDFW was unable to confirm a resident breeding pair.  They never denied wolves were here even if they might just be transients.  I guess my point isnt coming out clearly.

Guys have been seeing wolves for years now and statements from WDFW that said they were unable to confirm wolves were re-established in Washington made some guys think that they were denying they were here at all.