collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Wolves eating all our deer  (Read 168942 times)

Offline boneaddict

  • Site Sponsor
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 50471
  • Location: Selah, Washington
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #105 on: June 01, 2009, 12:19:00 PM »
They'll find an equilibrium, nature has a lovely way of doing that, but man won't be part of it.

If I were to guess, wolves go through the roof, herds decline, herds unable to recover due to everything else man has in the mix like range etc.  Wolves run out of food and turn on each other and man.  Wolves starve to death, now we have man.  and NO HUNTING.  I'm so bleek sometimes. :)

Offline Hornseeker

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2007
  • Posts: 3097
    • Sapphire Traditional Archery
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #106 on: June 01, 2009, 01:09:17 PM »
You've got her pretty close Doug... bottom line... we WILL get Screwed in the deal.... :(
Chuck Norris puts the "Laughter" in "Manslaughter"

Offline wolfbait

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 9187
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #107 on: June 01, 2009, 01:09:46 PM »
Wolves won't be the only predator that we will have on our door step, because as the game is killed off then the cougars, bears,and coyotes, the whole line of predators will be affected by the imbalance. The wolves are what started this downfall of imbalance, and they are being used just like the spotted owl was, only this is way werce. I think alot of people are just looking at this like,,"well it isn't in my backyard yet, I'm goin huntin, blaw,blaw,,blaw. But what they don't seem to understand is that this is in their backyard and gittin closer to being in the livingroom. I think if people don't start gittin togeather and fighting it, we will all be in a world of shi-. The 2 sites below explain it all, years ago some smart ass USFS guy told me what was planned and I thought he was mostly full of it, but everthing he told me has happened here so far. So now I tend to beleive some of the things that sound way out there, specially when I check it out for myself.

http://www.mtmultipleuse.org/endangered/endangered_species_act.htm

http://www.takingliberty.us/TLHome.html

Offline WDFW-SUX

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 5724
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #108 on: June 01, 2009, 01:21:44 PM »
 :yeah:
THE WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE SUCKS MORE THAN EVER..........

Offline wolfbait

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 9187
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #109 on: June 01, 2009, 01:29:47 PM »
They'll find an equilibrium, nature has a lovely way of doing that, but man won't be part of it.

If I were to guess, wolves go through the roof, herds decline, herds unable to recover due to everything else man has in the mix like range etc.  Wolves run out of food and turn on each other and man.  Wolves starve to death, now we have man.  and NO HUNTING.  I'm so bleek sometimes. :)

Not so fast, we will still be huntin, and maybe we will get to hunt every day. they just won't have horns and they won't be good eatin, but just think of all the warm clothes we will be wearin, wolf slippers,wolf underwear, slip between the wolf sheets, wolf coats, and who knows the way things are going wolf stew might be the up an coming menue. I don't think there will be much of nature when the wolf gets done, if you think of the way that nature works when it is up and running smoothly, you couldn't ask for a better system, beavers hold the water back, elk and deer in what not keep things from over growing in spots, the list goes on an on, you slam the wolves in there with no management and everything is bound to go to hell.

Offline WAcoyotehunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 4457
  • Location: Pend Oreille County
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #110 on: June 01, 2009, 03:19:37 PM »
bring your camera.


Whoa...the first bit of reason on this post in a while... 

These 'tame- unafraid- future man eating' wolves should be very easy to catch on film.  And since the valley is clearly LOADED with them getting a few pictures should be childs play.  Let's see those photos!  I think there has been one post on here that actually had photos of a washington wolf...with all of our hours in the woods and the vicious nature of these animals it seems we can get them any time. 

I'm laying on the sarcasm pretty strong- most of you probably understand that...but really- if "wolves are eating all our deer" as the post clearly states, why can't we seem to get any photos of this huge population of animals?  common guys... :bash: :bash: :bash:


Offline boneaddict

  • Site Sponsor
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 50471
  • Location: Selah, Washington
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #111 on: June 01, 2009, 03:21:29 PM »
I'd be sarcastic too.  I haven't found any of the pet variety yet.   :)

Offline Kain

  • Scalpless
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 5859
  • Location: Vantucky, WA
  • VantuckyKain
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #112 on: June 01, 2009, 03:24:05 PM »
sarcasm aside that is a fair point.

Offline WAcoyotehunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 4457
  • Location: Pend Oreille County
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #113 on: June 01, 2009, 03:30:56 PM »
I'd be sarcastic too.  I haven't found any of the pet variety yet.   :)
Exactly- how is it that some people on here are rabble rousing saying that they're "Not the least bit scairt of me".... clearly that's not the case.  If they're not scared of people- go take a picture of one.

Offline boneaddict

  • Site Sponsor
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 50471
  • Location: Selah, Washington
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #114 on: June 01, 2009, 05:02:27 PM »
I've been trying Wacoyote hunter.  Apparantly all the ones that I see wither know another dominant predator when they see one or someone has educated them.

Offline wolfbait

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 9187
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #115 on: June 02, 2009, 06:39:56 AM »
The times I could have taken a picture of the wolves, the coyote fixer was what I ended up grabbing other than a camera, I think when you own livestock, and they might be indangers way, one doesn't grab the camera. But I think in the near future you will start getting more pictures of the famed wolves. The way I figure this wolf situation, is some people will have to git ate before any real action will be impimented in wolf control. Then the noe-beleivers, will become beleivers. The wolf will affect everyone in the near future in one way or another. well not the people who live in the big cities. But who knows, these wolves multiply like bunnies, and they seem to spread out quite rapidly.

Offline WAcoyotehunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 4457
  • Location: Pend Oreille County
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #116 on: June 02, 2009, 07:37:04 AM »
The times I could have taken a picture of the wolves, the coyote fixer was what I ended up grabbing other than a camera, I think when you own livestock, and they might be indangers way, one doesn't grab the camera. But I think in the near future you will start getting more pictures of the famed wolves. The way I figure this wolf situation, is some people will have to git ate before any real action will be impimented in wolf control. Then the noe-beleivers, will become beleivers. The wolf will affect everyone in the near future in one way or another. well not the people who live in the big cities. But who knows, these wolves multiply like bunnies, and they seem to spread out quite rapidly.
I'm not sure wolves on on their way to eating people, but you're right- they're here to stay and are likely to become a part of our outdoor experience.   I disagree about them multiplying like bunnies- how many young survived this season from the lookout pack? 

Offline mossback91

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2007
  • Posts: 3195
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #117 on: June 02, 2009, 11:05:13 AM »
Have they shown any numbers for that kind of stuff wacoyote?? that would be interesting to see for sure

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+29)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 50153
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: jackelope
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #118 on: June 02, 2009, 11:18:37 AM »
Quote
By the 1980s, recorded confirmed observations were infrequent. While collecting grizzly bear data in 1989 for WDFW, Fitkin started getting wolf reports. Most of the reports, particularly the more credible and interesting ones, were from remote locations in the summer in the Pasayten, the Chelan-Sawtooth crest and Twisp River, said Fitkin. There were some good sightings at Ross Lake. He briefly glimpsed and heard the howling of wolves in Black Pine Basin, above Mazama.

In 1989, a team of Canadian biologists from British Columbia met with their American counterparts to let them know that more wolves were being sighted across the border and might show up in Washington, recalled Bill Gaines, forest biologist with the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest.

Confirming identification of a pure wild wolf was a problem before the recent introduction of DNA data and technology, said Gaines. He said there were incidents of people releasing hybrid wolf-dogs into the wild and people became skeptical. “It was always a clouded issue,” he said.

To confirm an observation of a rare species on the federal endangered species list, a verifiable record is required, according to forest biologist Bob Naney. With today’s technology, that means a DNA report, a clear photograph or a dead animal.

“Starting two to two-and-a-half years ago, there have been more consistent reports,” said Naney. Before that there were no reports during winter, when biologists thought the wolves would have been at lower elevations near deer winter range.

Most reports were anecdotal, but responses to a howling survey and remote camera photographs led wildlife agencies to radio-collar and monitor a pair of wolf-like canids in the Lookout Mountain area southwest of Twisp last July. DNA samples came back positive for pure gray wolf, genetically connected to wolves in Canada.

“As far as we know, nobody brought them in. They’ve been here since I came here in 1991,” said John Rohrer, biologist for the Methow Valley Ranger District. He said the DNA tests are consistent with wolf samples from southern coastal British Columbia.

“When people say someone drove to Canada to get the wolves, that’s impossible. I don’t buy the rumors,” said Gaines. He said there has been no agency effort to re-introduce wolves into the North Cascades. He said gray wolves are occasionally hunted and trapped just north of the border and have possibly been dispersing for many years based on sightings.

Re-introducing wolves or having no wolves were two options ruled out by the group of citizen and agency stakeholders who began working on Washington state’s draft Wolf Conservation and Management Plan in 2006, according to Fitkin.

“Those were the only two absolutes,” he said.  If re-introduction of wolves had been an option, the animals would have been outfitted with radio collars and we wouldn’t have put them right next to people, said Fitkin
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+29)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 50153
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: jackelope
Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #119 on: June 02, 2009, 11:25:40 AM »
Quote
Methow Valley residents adjust to living with wolves
Wenatchee World staff writer K.C. Mehaffey reports on Methow Valley residents response to living with wolves as the new Lookout Pack settles in.

By K.C. Mehaffey
Wenatchee World
May 16, 2009
TWISP - Despite the controversy that surrounds them, the gray wolves that made a home for themselves near Twisp are acting rather neighborly, so far.

No one has reported livestock killed, or pets carried off by the first confirmed pack of wolves to live in Washington state since the Great Depression, state officials say.

"Well-behaved," is how state Department of Fish and Wildlife biologist Scott Fitkin describes these wolves in their first official year of residency.

"I halfway anticipated we might have had an incident with somebody's dog by now," the Winthrop biologist said. "I've been surprised at how covert they've been."

This winter, less than a dozen wolves who are members of this pack weren't living far from people.

Some people who live on the outskirts of Twisp and Carlton have seen the wolves roaming in the hills behind their homes. More have heard their lonely cries from their porches and backyards.

They are likely to be the first in the state to deal with real encounters ­ but not the last, as this pack may grow rapidly, and other wolves are already venturing into Eastern Washington from Idaho.

These neighbors to the wolves have a variety of thoughts about them: Some are utterly opposed to the comeback of what they call blood-thirsty vermin, while others unconditionally favor the return of what they see as a long-missing part of Washington's ecosystem.

But more seem to take a pragmatic view of the wolf's recovery. Their reactions to the return of this large predator are not black and white, but, like the wolf itself, in the gray area between the two extremes.

Take Monte Catlin, 36, a Seattle firefighter who also runs an airline charter business and lives on Alder Creek Road with his wife, Mishon, and two young children.

The Catlins said wolves have been checking out their little canyon for several years now, and this past year, they've been regular visitors.

For a period of time this winter, they saw fresh tracks in the snow daily. Wolves have come to within 100 yards of the house, and the family enjoys hearing them howl at night, a sound Monte Catlin describes as "absolutely magical."

Catlin said he has no fear of the creatures ­ he and his wife have hiked and camped in parts of the country where many wolves live and have never been bothered. They feel completely safe leaving their children to play in the yard under the watchful eyes of their large dogs, and would be much more concerned about cougars, bears or just about any other wildlife.

But, Catlin said, his support of the wolf's return isn't absolute.

"Having a few wolves around seems to be intriguing and exciting ­ something new. But if we have 10 times that amount, my opinion could change," he said. And he understands that even a few wolves could pose problems for people with livestock. "I'm very sympathetic to my neighbor that runs cattle. Obviously, I don't make my living off cattle," he said.

Most of the people contacted who live on the eastern edge of the wolf's territory said they aren't too worried about wolves venturing onto their property and they haven't made any changes to accommodate them. "It's just another animal, really," said Jennifer Edwards, 33, a homemaker who lives on the Twisp-Carlton Road just east of where the wolves are living. "We already have cougars and bears. We have coyotes wandering through all the time. They're the same thing in my brain," she said.

Edwards said she's not overly concerned about her two young children either ­ at least not any more than she already worries about them. The other day at breakfast, they were talking about the rattlesnake they thought they saw. "You just deal with it. We have kids, and they don't go out at night. When you come to the country and live, that's just life."

Down the road a piece, Judy Hanley, 52, a retired homemaker, agreed. "I think it's a good thing if they come back, as long as they don't let it go overboard," she said.

Hanley said she thinks her cows, horses, dogs, cats and chickens are safe. The chickens are well secured, she said. "I don't think we have to worry about a wolf jumping over a 6-foot-high fence."

Blane Rogers, 57, a taxidermist, said he has friends on both sides of the issue. He agreed with many others, who said there's a huge split in the general community when it comes to wolves. "I'm just neutral," he said.

Rogers said he'd personally like to see one in the wild, and doesn't worry about hiking with his little dog ­ which he keeps on a leash ­ while on state land near his house. "I think cougars are more likely to jump on you than a wolf is, and I'm not scared of them," he said. But he knows many of his customers worry their hunting opportunities will be greatly diminished with the wolf's return.

Walter Parker, 66, retired from the Skagit County Public Works Department, said he's seen firsthand what the wolves have done in Idaho. "I go over there hunting, and 15 years ago, you'd see all kinds of elk and deer. They've completely wiped them out," he said.

He thinks it won't take long for the wolves in the Methow to wipe out the mule deer. "Then they'll go for the livestock and dogs and cats," he said. "In 20 years, this place will be overrun with wolves. I don't think we need them."

Some say they have nothing against the wolf, they just don't want them living so close to a rural neighborhood with lots of livestock, pets and children.

"I don't really like the idea of having them as neighbors right here," said longtime resident Larry Surface, 57, a carpenter. "Those of us who have been here for 50 years and longer, we just kind of like to keep the wolves away from the door."

Surface said the valley will change as wolves become more populous.

"All you have to do is go to Idaho or Montana to see what kind of an impact they're having. I don't want to have to build a wolf fence around my 20 acres so I can keep a dog and a cat," he said.

Surface echoed a few other residents who said they don't believe that the wolves made their way here from Canada on their own. He thinks a special interest group ­ but not the game department ­ brought them to the valley. It just doesn't make sense, he said, that the wolves would decide to make their home this close to Twisp.

Fitkin said he's heard the rumor that the state Department of Fish and Wildlife planted the wolves here, and that's absolutely not true.

He said it makes sense that wolves came down from Canada over a period of years, and finally chose one of the valley's best hunting grounds to make their home.

Although most people contacted say they haven't changed their lifestyles just because wolves are living nearby, some have.

John Richardson, 43, a Carlton orchardist, said he's happy that the wolves are returning, even though he has dogs, and knows that wolves have killed dogs in Idaho and Montana.

"Really, my only concern is for my dogs, and I'm choosing to take them up and go hiking in the woods," he said. When he hikes in wolf territory, he keeps a closer eye on them, and tries to keep them closer to his side. On occasion, he's gone hiking in a different place because he heard the wolves were in a certain area.

"As far as not going into the woods because there are wolves out there, that would be silly."

Willie Kemper, 73, a retired heavy equipment operator, said the wolves won't keep him out of the woods, either. But he worries about leaving his mules out overnight when he packs them into the hills near his house, knowing there's a wolf pack close by.

"I'm just not real enthused," he said of the wolf's return.

He said he doubts the wolves will come into his yard, but he has made one change since to prepare for a wolf encounter.

"I've been carrying a little shooter, just for rattlesnakes. Now I just carry a little bigger shooter," he said of the .357 revolver he now takes with him on his frequent backcountry trips. But, he added, "I don't know if I dare shoot one or not."

Tania Rapp, 34, a Carlton farmer, said she wouldn't mind learning how to use a gun, now that she's all too aware of the predators that come into her yard up Libby Creek. She has a 6-year-old son.

This winter, a cougar attacked one of their alpacas, and after that experience, she and her husband decided to sell all of their alpacas.

She said the attack raised concerns with her neighbors. "Quite a few people didn't want to have to relocate the cougar, they wanted the cougar around," she said.

There were also those concerned about safety, and felt the alpacas were attracting predators.

"It's definitely affected us in that we decided to just not have livestock at the moment, not until we have a really good fence and a really good barn." They kept a few sheep, which are in a more secured enclosure, she said.

Rapp said she isn't upset about losing the alpacas. "We live out in the wilderness," she said. "We just decided we didn't want to cause any more issues in the community."

:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

New York deer by HighlandLofts
[Today at 08:17:24 PM]


Resetting dash warning lights by Sandberm
[Today at 08:13:27 PM]


NEED ADVICE: LATE after JUNE 15th IDAHO BEAR by SpicyTacos
[Today at 08:07:09 PM]


Colorado Results by Ironhead
[Today at 06:27:40 PM]


Please Report Problems & Bugs Here by Mossy
[Today at 06:17:02 PM]


What's flatbed pickup life like? by Special T
[Today at 05:52:28 PM]


Oregon spring bear by Fidelk
[Today at 04:58:27 PM]


Idaho General Season Going to Draw for Nonresidents by idahohuntr
[Today at 01:51:40 PM]


Seekins PH2 & Element sale by BigJs Outdoor Store
[Today at 12:40:26 PM]


Kokanee Fishing Tournament!! 🎣 June 13-14, Joseph OR by WRKG4GD
[Today at 11:42:02 AM]


wings wings and more wings! by birddogdad
[Today at 11:00:11 AM]


Survey in ? by hdshot
[Today at 10:55:39 AM]


Jim Horn's elk calling, instructional audio CD's. by WapitiTalk1
[Today at 09:46:03 AM]


DIY Ucluelet trip by WAcoueshunter
[Today at 07:46:51 AM]


Wyoming elk who's in? by link
[Today at 07:00:33 AM]


CVA Optima V2 durasight rail mod by craigapphunt
[Today at 05:56:00 AM]


Last year putting in… by wa.hunter
[Yesterday at 11:02:00 PM]


HUNTNNW 2025 trail cam thread and photos by huntnnw
[Yesterday at 10:34:36 PM]


alkali elk special hunt by Rainier10
[Yesterday at 09:17:12 PM]


Oregon Seed #'s by Brute
[Yesterday at 08:54:20 PM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2025, SimplePortal