Wolves eating all our deer

[wolfbait]

If we didn't already know that these wolves had been released in the methow, wouldn't it be just a little bit strange to have all of a sudden a large wolf pack, plus surplus singles tripping around. Thats what makes the feds and the wolf people laughable when they deny that they planted them here. For years you don't see any wolves and then ker-blam theres a pile of them. They say they just discovered them in 08, so they figure they have to jump on it when someone reports it to them and now its out in the open. all of sudden its this big surprise wolf pack,,now thats what doesn't smell to good. 

[Kain]

Everybody has good points here. Does anyone know if there is public anouncements anywhere when the game department transplants an animal. I'd like to have a link for it because it should be public information. The WDFW does not let everything they do out of the bag. If that was the case then there would still be a WDFW employee on this sight that could answer some of our questions for us.(someone called the guys boss and ratted him out)

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,27765.0.html
They post it when it is not an controversial animal.

Thanks Kain

No problem here are a few more.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/research/papers/sage_grouse/lewis_reintro08.html
http://wdfw.wa.gov/do/newreal/release.php?id=mar3109a
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/research/papers/seaotter/survey/index.htm
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/research/caribou/caribou.htm

[boneaddict]

I tend to use my own sense of smell and my own eyes when it comes to these things rather than listen to what some beuracrat is trying to force feed me.  I guess I'd never make a very good mushroom (live in the dark and feed me *censored*).
So far what I know and what I have observed and what I believe conquers with wolfbait 100%. 

[WAcoyotehunter]

If we didn't already know that these wolves had been released in the methow, wouldn't it be just a little bit strange to have all of a sudden a large wolf pack, plus surplus singles tripping around. Thats what makes the feds and the wolf people laughable when they deny that they planted them here. For years you don't see any wolves and then ker-blam theres a pile of them. They say they just discovered them in 08, so they figure they have to jump on it when someone reports it to them and now its out in the open. all of sudden its this big surprise wolf pack,,now thats what doesn't smell to good.  

I'm still not sure that anyone can show that wolves have been released...there still has not been a single shread of evidence aside from everyones acute sense of smell to this horrible biologist conspiracy.  i guess what I'm saying is SHOW ME THE MONEY.  Where are the pictures, documents, proof of any kind aside from a "somthing's fishy" smell.  

[boneaddict]

Unfortunately, I think that will be sort of like the grassy knoll theory.......

At this point it doesn't matter.  *censored* has already hit the fan.  If you don't recognize that, well then I don't know what to say to you. I can have my belief and you can think I am just one of the sky is falling guys, and in this case I'd love to be wrong.  Oh I wish I was wrong.

[boneaddict]

someone with all the right connections and not afraid to ask......I want to find out how many collared wolves are they currently tracking in the state of Washington.  Think there is anyway to find out. 

Its amazing to me how fast they spread or exploded.  Too bad sheep and antelope don't share the same success in this state if this has all been natural.

[wolfbait]

someone with all the right connections and not afraid to ask......I want to find out how many collared wolves are they currently tracking in the state of Washington.  Think there is anyway to find out. 

Its amazing to me how fast they spread or exploded.  Too bad sheep and antelope don't share the same success in this state if this has all been natural.

Here's how it goes, canadian wolves can have up to 14 pups per litter, elk,deer,moose ect. 1 to 3 per year, very seldom three. The feds and the wolf people try to claim that the alfa male and female are the only ones that beed in the pack, all pure horseshi-. So you have all these wolves having all these puppies, then they have puppies, in the mean time ma n pa are killing the snot out of everything. Soon you have lots of wolves with nothing to eat. That is where you and I come into the picture as dam good food for the wolf, and they won't be killing the week and the old, it will be the ones who arn't packing. It's amazing the amount of people that become pro-gun owners in wolf county. Its like the people living in the city buying guns to protect themselfs from the gangs and crooks, out here in the brush people are buying guns to keep the wolves from eating them. It took along time to get rid of most of the wolves way back when, and they used the hell out of poisons. even here in the methow valley back in the 30's and 40's the feds would take a horse up on the game range, shoot it, let the coyotes and wolves get to feeding on it good than they would lace it with TD4, I think thats what it was, there would be dead coyotes and wolves everywhere, this was in the winter time. Its going to take along time to get control of the wolves that we have now. Anytime the wolves start bothering people down here in the lower 48, they say that it is becuz someone fed them, and thats probably partly right, they fed them before the turned them loose on us.

[Kain]

Interesting older articles.  Notice that a breeding pair of wolves were discovered in 1990!!!! Why was this info lost or covered up?

National parks service
http://www.nps.gov/archive/noca/wolf.htm

Are gray wolves reproducing in the North Cascades?

In 1990, adults with pups were seen in the Hozomeen area. This was the first known reproduction of wild wolves in Washington State in at least 50 years! Since 1990, biologists have seen three separate groups of adult wolves with pups in the Cascades. Wolves mate in February or March. About 63 days later a litter averaging six pups is born.

http://www.pacificbio.org/ESIN/MapImages/graywolf.jpg

Why are the possible wolf sightings marked with a gray circle on a grey map?

I am still not convinced that wolves have been released by any government agency but I am starting to think they may be down playing actual populations in Washington.  Money, politics?  It is these kinds of conflicting info that makes me distrust anything they have to say on these subjects.

[boneaddict]

I happen to agree with both.  They downplayed it and released. I'm not as worried about being eatin as I am not being able to hunt in short order due to the acute lack of deer or elk or our moose herd.  I guess they go hand in hand.   After spending a good part of 2 weeks in the heat of the rut in your backyard(wolfbait), I am extremely disappointed at what I saw.  Being raised in the Methow and knowing how populations ebb and change in regards to weather mostly, this is unreal.  Having been asked for evidence, all I can offer is 30+ years of observation.  I am also unsure how to collect DNA evidence to prove I am right or wrong.  I have seen both varietys throughout the years in the valley (The old native Reds or what they called them, and the big Greys.)  I'd love to know where all the big greys came from all of a sudden.  If they indeed recovered and moved in this fast then they ought to be addressing that problem or at least be alarmed by it.  Any species that explodes this fast..........
I have said all along that control over these populations EVEN WITH a hunting season, which would be a move in the right direction, will be a little too late. Poision is essentially the only form of control that will work, and I am sure we are far from that.  Our only hope now is for a Parvo outbreak.   

[wolfbait]

someone with all the right connections and not afraid to ask......I want to find out how many collared wolves are they currently tracking in the state of Washington.  Think there is anyway to find out. 

Its amazing to me how fast they spread or exploded.  Too bad sheep and antelope don't share the same success in this state if this has all been natural.

I don't think anyone will be able to find out the real trueth on how many, as that would kinda blow their boat outa the water. when you tell lies at the rate that they do, they sure don't want to slip up and tell something that we could git our teeth into. We can all sit around jawin on what they are telling us, an know that they are lie'n fools, and they know we know they are lie'n but unless we git the paper work or it goes to court when soneone gets ate, they can sit in the back of the class and snicker. I think that they were purely stupid to put them in this valley, as someone is going to get ate, their just isn't no getting around that. We have alot of not to bright people that come here from all over, and alot of them beleive the bullsh-- that the wolf is a shy creature, that just is not true with these canadian wolves, the ones we had here years ago were though, we hardly ever saw one and when we did it was there and it was gone. So when it happens and it will, I am sure that they don't want to be held responsible for something that they created. I have had wolves in around my place the last 2 nights, we heard them howling last night just before dark, and then about 1;00 in the morning the dogs went crazee, so we get in the truck and go check on our stock, 2 nights in a row makes for short nights. You can just bet your last dollar, I will be shooting first and asking quetions later if they come after any of mine. This old game of, "well we just can't tell" isn't going to fly.

[jackelope]

bring your camera.

[woodswalker]

I have said all along that control over these populations EVEN WITH a hunting season, which would be a move in the right direction, will be a little too late. Poision is essentially the only form of control that will work, and I am sure we are far from that.  Our only hope now is for a Parvo outbreak.   

Or a SEVERE case of Hypervelocity-Plumbism and Exsanguination.   

[wolfbait]

Year before last we had lots of snow, I was plowin snow 2,3 times a week. I fed ove 60 head of deer with my broncs. We had wolves in here then to, but we never saw any till about the end of febuary, it was early in the morning just bout daylight and my wife said theres 2 wolves looking in the window, well I thought she was just really lookin at coyotes, so I grabed the coyote fixer and went round the end of the house, Not being fully awake yet I saw them about 60 yds away, I thought they looked rather big for coyotes so I squeezed one off right in front of them, they turned and loped back past me within 50ft. Not even scairt abit, and let me tell you they are big buggers. we went out and looked at how far they was from our window, little ove 30 ft. So now we are putting up some big porch lights and some dandy barnyard lights, it will look like a football game at night time. I am also putting in some slider windows so that I can shoot clear to the barn from the bedroom. Three years ago we had a big black wolf in here he would sit across from the house about 150yds out and howl. he was here for a bout a month. He was also a canadian wolf. Once you see these wolves for real you just don't forget. I got a neighbor over the other side of the mountain, and he called me up one morning, said there was 2 cougar chasing a coyote around the mountain towards our place, so I grabed the fixer and the truck and went around up this road that goes in on top, anyway I get up in there aways and heres this black wolf loping along up though there, he stoped and looked at me just like I was the ice cream delivery truck. Not the least bit scairt of me. But why should they be they probably do more travelin in trucks than I do. Its a dam good thing that the parks have to let people pack now because it is going to save some folks from ol fang.  As far as deer huntin here anymore I think it is about shot, last year they did a fawn study and there were no fawns to speak of. We get a bad winter this year and that will be the end for deer huntin here, and even if we don't I think the folks that come here this year will be mostly just having a camping trip.

[wolfbait]

I have said all along that control over these populations EVEN WITH a hunting season, which would be a move in the right direction, will be a little too late. Poision is essentially the only form of control that will work, and I am sure we are far from that.  Our only hope now is for a Parvo outbreak.   

Or a SEVERE case of Hypervelocity-Plumbism and Exsanguination.   

I heard something awhile back about some people plantin a dog of their own, I don't remember what state it was, but they had a plan. Sure is a dirty way to have to deal with the wolf problem. But if they won't manage them and supposable you can't shoot em, well shi- happens. I think that what they don't understand is people that don't live in the cities still have a mind of their own, and we don't follow along like the rest of the sheep, maybe they think they can make us tow the mark by sickin the wolf on us, I really don't think it will work. There are people buying more guns, people that never had guns before have them now. They try to take the guns away from people fightin off the wolves and I think then they will think about gittin rid of the wolves as that will be more easier.

[Kain]

A little disturbing on what we have to look forward to.  Hopefully WDFW will get this under control BEFORE it gets to this point in Washington.  I really hope so but remain skeptical.


http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwest/story/737377.html

The report was presented by Idaho Fish and Game Department wildlife biologist Pete Zager.

"I'd like to tell you we have this ungulate-wolf thing figured out," he said as the audience of scientists eased into educated smiles. "But that's not the case."

While scientists are trying to gather data and study the options for finding a balance between wolf recovery and prey sustainability, wildlife managers are under public pressure to make decisions.

Zager said researchers don't have all the information they need, but they realize "we've got to get rolling and make decisions based on the information we have."

Here's what researchers know for sure about elk and wolves in Idaho, he said:

-- Elk herds are declining.

-- Wolf packs are growing -- well above original objectives.

-- The number of elk harvested by hunters has been declining, from around 25,000 in the mid-1990s, when wolves were reintroduced to the Northern Rocky Mountains, to roughly 15,000 last year.

-- Elk hunting seasons and quotas have been reduced for 2009, but the impacts of wolves are likely to go unchecked.

-- Wolf management through hunting is scheduled to begin this fall, but likely will be challenged in court by animal protection groups.

-- Wolves have become the most important factor in predation on elk.

However, they're not the only factor.

"Wolves have given cougars a huge favor by taking the spotlight. Cougars are still a significant factor (in elk mortality)."

-- Forest fire suppression also is a factor in elk declines.

-- The effects of wolves on elk vary dramatically in various game management units.

Bottom line: "We still need to be monitoring wolves and elk like crazy," Zager said.