Elk camps no show

[ghosthunter]

I never read where he said he held a cow tag. Maybe it was guys he hunts with. Not seeing how he has control over them.

Yes I had a cow tag. We hunted that unit past 10 or more years.

I think cow tags should go away across the board. But as long as tags are offered I will put in. I’ve paid my money over the years and  when more opportunity comes along I am going to take it.
Yeah I could draw it and not hunt it. But that serves no purpose. We are either all in or all out.
Going into the season I felt we had a chance to fill at least one tag. We actually had three tags. One guy didn’t hunt his tag because of a health issue.

We hunt this unit because we know it and like the terrain. We have hunted most the Yakima herd units over the years and like 342 the best. Our camp mostly tents is 6 miles off the Hwy and the road is rough enough to keep the big RV out.

But over the years the numbers in the area we hunt have gone down.

A few years ago my buddy drew 342 for the archery late hunt. There were a lot of elk in that unit and not many people harvesting cows when you look at the harvest reports. I highly doubt that we need to restrict cow elk hunting even more than it already has just cause you didn’t see what you have in the past. From what I’ve seen for elk numbers in 342 and the 352 the elk numbers are good, hopefully the game department increases some opportunity for all weapons.

It could be seasons, we hunt muzzy.  There may be more elk around there in November. I don’t have the answer. But every year seems to get worse.

[hunter399]

It's like my situation right now.
Think I have 7 or 8  points in antlerless elk or something like that.
Next year will be 8 years I've been waiting for an opportunity.
If I ever draw ,I bet your bottom dollar ,I will hunt it.

This will be pretty harsh here....
It could be the last cow in the unit. If they are stupid enough to hand me a tag for the last animal. I'll hunt it.

I guess since my suggestion on regulation,and just standard wildlife observation is not good enough for consideration.
I feel it is not my job to manage resources at this point.
The commission and department chosen a path that doesn't include hunters in wildlife management.
Is what it is.

Yeah we all get that you are going to do what’s in your best interests, all the time. Screw everyone else. Typical of the modern world we live in.

Not my decision on how many tags are given out.
What exactly should I do.
I'm not in charge of wildlife management in this state.
I send a few emails each year with suggestions on regulation.
I think I even put in a petition one time.
All tossed to the side, that's all I can do man.

Like said before ....
You can point the finger at your fellow hunter.
Or you can point the finger at the people who actually make these decisions. It's your choice.
Deer and Elk management has been put on the back burner.
For predator management.🤔
Is what it is.
I'm over it,with wildlife management.
My job is to buy tags and draws that support management.
Stay within the legal regulation.

[hughjorgan]

I never read where he said he held a cow tag. Maybe it was guys he hunts with. Not seeing how he has control over them.

Yes I had a cow tag. We hunted that unit past 10 or more years.

I think cow tags should go away across the board. But as long as tags are offered I will put in. I’ve paid my money over the years and  when more opportunity comes along I am going to take it.
Yeah I could draw it and not hunt it. But that serves no purpose. We are either all in or all out.
Going into the season I felt we had a chance to fill at least one tag. We actually had three tags. One guy didn’t hunt his tag because of a health issue.

We hunt this unit because we know it and like the terrain. We have hunted most the Yakima herd units over the years and like 342 the best. Our camp mostly tents is 6 miles off the Hwy and the road is rough enough to keep the big RV out.

But over the years the numbers in the area we hunt have gone down.

A few years ago my buddy drew 342 for the archery late hunt. There were a lot of elk in that unit and not many people harvesting cows when you look at the harvest reports. I highly doubt that we need to restrict cow elk hunting even more than it already has just cause you didn’t see what you have in the past. From what I’ve seen for elk numbers in 342 and the 352 the elk numbers are good, hopefully the game department increases some opportunity for all weapons.

It could be seasons, we hunt muzzy.  There may be more elk around there in November. I don’t have the answer. But every year seems to get worse.

Could very well have been that the archery late hunt had a bunch of elk move down from the high country. The year we hunted it there wasn’t a big snow though either


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ghosthunter]

In 2013 the 342 success % was 11.9
In 2022 it was less than 4%.
For muzzle loader season. You would be hard pressed to find a success rate of 5% now in most E. Wa. Units for muzzy.

Your guess as why? Is as good as mine.

[hughjorgan]

Weren’t they giving out a bunch of cow tags in 342 at that time?

Seems to me the WDFW is constantly giving out lots of cow tags in this unit; this year alone between all 3 user groups it is closed to 400 tags I believe. WDFW must be trying to lower numbers; maybe agricultural conflicts are up?

[ghosthunter]

When we started hunting there it was 250 tags to 500 hunters, a 50% chance. Then they went to 500 cow tags and the bottom fell out. Logged the north end and two fires.

This year they were down to approx 85 cow permits.

[Mtnwalker]

Weren’t they giving out a bunch of cow tags in 342 at that time?

Seems to me the WDFW is constantly giving out lots of cow tags in this unit; this year alone between all 3 user groups it is closed to 400 tags I believe. WDFW must be trying to lower numbers; maybe agricultural conflicts are up?

Here is the response I got from a bio on the subject earlier this year:

We appreciate your interest and concern regarding our elk herds. I will do my best to articulate our reasoning and strategy and encourage you to reach back out for clarification or additional questions/comments. As a caveat, I can only truly speak to most recent tag allocation and the justification behind it. If you have not already consulted the herd management plans and status and trend reports I would encourage you to look at those resources in addition to this email; they have a lot of really good data and information regarding our management strategies and can elucidate our decision making rational.

 

From a broad perspective we manage elk through hunting and regulate hunting pressure dependent on managing populations to  defined objectives (see herd plans for specific) while maximizing hunting recreation, controlling agricultural damage, and ensuring ecosystem integrity. This means that variation in tag number is influenced by a number of social and ecological issues. We could discuss this at length and I would be happy to do so if you want to talk. Otherwise the more straight forward answer to your question is  elk herds in central Washington have not been within defined objectives and specific to your question bull ratios have NOT or trends indicated declines that warranted reductions in tags to ensure stability or growth; therefore tags have not been increased. Populations can experience declines due to a variety of reasons throughout time either harsh winters, summer droughts, fire, severe human disturbance, or other pressures. In some cases multiple pressure occur in a given year and can result in much larger negative impacts.  Sever winters in 2015-2016 and 2016-2017 impacted our populations leading to significant declines.

 

We have both population level objectives and specific herd composition objectives which help us assess the “health” of our herds and inform sustainable harvest levels.  In our tag decision making process we use:

Post-hunt estimations of total population size, bull: cow and calf: cow ratios
Trends in population size and ratios
Hunter success
 

It is easiest to discuss in terms of specific herds:

 

Yakima Elk herd

Up to 2017 Bulls ratios were well within objective but following harsh winters we saw a significant decline in bull ratios to well below objective in 2018 ( 7 bulls: 100 cows). Branches bulls tags have continued to be limited to encourage recovery to objective levels of  12-20 bulls: 100 cows.  The good news is more recent surveys in 2022 and 2023 indicate a positive trend to recovery and both population and bull:cow; calf:cow ratios are now within objective.  An increasing trend is positive for future opportunity to increase branched bulls tags. However by doing so too soon could mean pushing below objective and required careful consideration of multiple and potentially interacting factors.  We review tag limits on an annual basis and will seek to maximize harvest while meeting all our objectives, increased in branched bull tags will occur if it is assessed we can in future seasons for this herd.

[hughjorgan]

Weren’t they giving out a bunch of cow tags in 342 at that time?

Seems to me the WDFW is constantly giving out lots of cow tags in this unit; this year alone between all 3 user groups it is closed to 400 tags I believe. WDFW must be trying to lower numbers; maybe agricultural conflicts are up?

Here is the response I got from a bio on the subject earlier this year:

We appreciate your interest and concern regarding our elk herds. I will do my best to articulate our reasoning and strategy and encourage you to reach back out for clarification or additional questions/comments. As a caveat, I can only truly speak to most recent tag allocation and the justification behind it. If you have not already consulted the herd management plans and status and trend reports I would encourage you to look at those resources in addition to this email; they have a lot of really good data and information regarding our management strategies and can elucidate our decision making rational.

 

From a broad perspective we manage elk through hunting and regulate hunting pressure dependent on managing populations to  defined objectives (see herd plans for specific) while maximizing hunting recreation, controlling agricultural damage, and ensuring ecosystem integrity. This means that variation in tag number is influenced by a number of social and ecological issues. We could discuss this at length and I would be happy to do so if you want to talk. Otherwise the more straight forward answer to your question is  elk herds in central Washington have not been within defined objectives and specific to your question bull ratios have NOT or trends indicated declines that warranted reductions in tags to ensure stability or growth; therefore tags have not been increased. Populations can experience declines due to a variety of reasons throughout time either harsh winters, summer droughts, fire, severe human disturbance, or other pressures. In some cases multiple pressure occur in a given year and can result in much larger negative impacts.  Sever winters in 2015-2016 and 2016-2017 impacted our populations leading to significant declines.

 

We have both population level objectives and specific herd composition objectives which help us assess the “health” of our herds and inform sustainable harvest levels.  In our tag decision making process we use:

Post-hunt estimations of total population size, bull: cow and calf: cow ratios
Trends in population size and ratios
Hunter success
 

It is easiest to discuss in terms of specific herds:

 

Yakima Elk herd

Up to 2017 Bulls ratios were well within objective but following harsh winters we saw a significant decline in bull ratios to well below objective in 2018 ( 7 bulls: 100 cows). Branches bulls tags have continued to be limited to encourage recovery to objective levels of  12-20 bulls: 100 cows.  The good news is more recent surveys in 2022 and 2023 indicate a positive trend to recovery and both population and bull:cow; calf:cow ratios are now within objective.  An increasing trend is positive for future opportunity to increase branched bulls tags. However by doing so too soon could mean pushing below objective and required careful consideration of multiple and potentially interacting factors.  We review tag limits on an annual basis and will seek to maximize harvest while meeting all our objectives, increased in branched bull tags will occur if it is assessed we can in future seasons for this herd.

I would say the decline was self imposed leading up to the harsh winters. You can go back to the years prior and look at the take of cows. The two years prior to the winters they talk about the biologists gave out an abundance of cow tags that led to the taking of approximately 2000 cows out of the Yakima herd.

[jrebel]

 

Me and my hunting partner said at that time it was a mistake.   Not sure who made that decision but it was the dumbest decision ever.