Elk camps no show

[mtncook]

Here in the Blue Mountains the number of camps reflect the game numbers.  During the General deer season i observed a reduced number of camps however nothing like the lack of numbers for Elk season.  About the only Elk hunters around have a Quality Tag or a group that makes atrip each year as a tradition.   The Game numbers are very low, calf survival is crucial for the future population. Ive said for years now that our elk will die off due to old age without good replacement numbers.  My cameras reveal good numbers in Spring but as Fall approaches very view are seen.  Hunters are moving on to other areas.  I cant point to 1 specific cause but many issues come into play. Obviously in recent years preditors play a big roll in survival. The Game Department stopped their normal winter game counts I'm sure because they were afraid of what they would find.
Pretty scary for a future.  Thoughts from an "Old Guy"

[pianoman9701]

The Wildlife Commission may well have ended the winter count to purposely hide the damage they're doing. Their pro-predator, anti-ungulate practices are no doubt playing havoc on the Blues elk. I'm sorry to hear this.

[dvolmer]

I had the quality Dayton tag in 2019. I saw 75 cows during my week long hunt. Not one of them had a calf.

[Stein]

I had the quality Dayton tag in 2019. I saw 75 cows during my week long hunt. Not one of them had a calf.

 

[Woodchuck]

The lack of camps up along Skyline is very telling to me. Maybe a quarter of what used to be up there and I think I'm being generous.

[ghosthunter]

This year  muzzy we had two 342 cow tags in camp. Six hunters. We have hunted this unit for years.
We scouted in Sept. and counted 17 cows two with calves and one Spike in four days.

When the season opened we saw no elk until the last day when we came close on the cow tags.

I know guys who won’t go u less they draw a cow tag, because it isn’t worth hunting spikes.

Next year we may not hunt elk if one of us v doesn’t draw a cow tag.

Mule deer was no better.


Too much hunting of baby makers and predators is my thought. I would like to see a total ban on hunting cows for three years. And an increase on Predator hunting .

[hughjorgan]

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2023/oct/20/continuing-blue-mountain-elk-study-shows-contrasti/

By Eric Barker
Lewiston Tribune
LEWISTON – Officials from the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife have released results from the second year of a much-watched elk calf survival study in the Blue Mountains.

The findings contrast sharply with the first year of data. During 2021, only about 13% of more than 100 elk calves that were captured, fitted with tracking collars and then released ended up surviving. In the second year, survival jumped to 47%.

In both years, predation, at about 77%, was the leading cause of mortality, and cougars were responsible for the majority of the predation – about 58% in year one and about 71% in year two.

The study, which has one year remaining, is being followed closely by camps at the opposite ends of the state’s political spectrum as it relates to the management of fish and wildlife. On one side, local politicians and hunting groups want the agency to help elk in the Blue Mountains by putting more pressure on mountain lions. On the other, wildlife and animal rights advocacy groups, along with a portion of the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission, are highly skeptical of predator hunting and the ability of predators to drive population declines.

The elk herd in the Blues has fallen on tough times. It is about 25% below the 5,500-animal objective set by the department. A harsh winter with poor survival in 2017 started the trouble, which was accentuated by lingering winter conditions late into 2019. Since 2017, the agency has documented low recruitment of elk from calves to adults across the heart of the Blues, and the herd has been determined to be “at risk.”


That designation prompted a two-pronged monitoring project. The agency is looking at annual recruitment, expressed as the ratio of elk calves per 100 cows and tallied by aerial surveys. It is also looking at how many calves are surviving and what is causing mortality.

To get at survival, agency biologists are fitting newborn calves with collars that emit a mortality signal if the device has not moved in five hours. They then rush to the site and attempt to determine the cause of death.

During the first year of the study, the recruitment and survival data aligned. The calf-to-cow ration ranged from 13% to 19% and the survival was 13.6%. In the second year, recruitment ranged from 7% to 19% but survival was estimated at 47.5%. A calf-to-cow ratio of 25% is needed for elk herds to remain stable.

“Overall, the available information – consistently low recruitment ratios and 1 of 2 years of poor estimated survival – indicates that the capacity for this population to grow to its objective level is hindered, albeit potentially highly variable,” the agency wrote in a summary.

That sets up 2023 as potentially key to providing a more complete picture of the herd, recruitment, calf survival and the most common cause of mortality.

Paul Wik, district wildlife biologist for the agency at Clarkston and head of the project, stressed the study is incomplete and scientific prudence cautions against drawing premature conclusions, especially those which may be used to base management options. But he said the discrepancy in survival could be because of stark differences in climatic conditions. During Year 1, the area suffered under a heat dome that saw temperatures spike well above 100 degrees a few weeks after most calves were born. That was accompanied by a drought and followed by large wildfires that altered the way elk typically use their habitat. Year two saw much more moderate temperatures and above-average summer precipitation.


Wik said it’s possible the conditions during the summer of 2021, the study’s first year, led to reduced pregnancy rates that fall and fewer calves being born in the spring of 2022. Even though the number of calves may have been down, the wetter and more moderate temperatures could have led to higher survival. However, Wik is careful to caution that the study does not include a look at cow pregnancy rates or their overall health. He also noted variability in calf survival is common.

Wik did say that during both years of the study, most of the mortality is happening early in the lives of calves and that over-winter survival has been good. During harsh winters, mortality often shows up quite late.

“We have not documented any predation or starvation events after November in the two years,” he said. “So, one thing to take from that, if there was a carrying capacity issue, you would expect carrying capacity to show itself through poor survival especially with young of the year, so we don’t think it’s a habitat-driven issue.”

Wik said results from the 2023 group of collared calves and the entire study will be available next summer.

“We need the third year of data,” he said.

[Pathfinder101]

Anecdotally, I can tell you that:
1.  I live in Unit 154
2.  I used to hunt an archery elk camp in the Blues every year
3.  I no longer hunt it because you can no longer find an elk on the public land I used to hunt
4.  That same piece of land has now produced nearly a dozen bears and a cougar over the past couple of years (we now hunt it as a "bear camp" in Aug/Sept)
5.  I still put in for the special draw elk tags; but that's because I know I can get access to the private farms where they are seeking refuge from the wolves
6.  If I draw a tag, I won't even waste my time with our "old elk camp".  We used to see 350"+ bulls every season.  Now you can't buy a cow there with a million bucks.

Take that for what it is. 
Maybe this will sound like a grumpy local, but in my humble opinion, if I didn't have access to the private ground where the elk are, I would consider it irresponsible to put my name in the hat for a tag right now.   

[Karl Blanchard]

This year  muzzy we had two 342 cow tags in camp. Six hunters. We have hunted this unit for years.
We scouted in Sept. and counted 17 cows two with calves and one Spike in four days.

When the season opened we saw no elk until the last day when we came close on the cow tags.

I know guys who won’t go u less they draw a cow tag, because it isn’t worth hunting spikes.

Next year we may not hunt elk if one of us v doesn’t draw a cow tag.

Mule deer was no better.


Too much hunting of baby makers and predators is my thought. I would like to see a total ban on hunting cows for three years. And an increase on Predator hunting .

I wouldn't give up on 342 that easy. Maybe try a different part I spend a good bit of time in 342 and there is no shortage of elk. No shortage of elk in any of the yakima gmu's really. The Yakima herd is thriving at 11k animals. That's more elk than the region has ever had in its history except for a short window of time between like 2009-2012/13.

[kirkl]

This year  muzzy we had two 342 cow tags in camp. Six hunters. We have hunted this unit for years.
We scouted in Sept. and counted 17 cows two with calves and one Spike in four days.

When the season opened we saw no elk until the last day when we came close on the cow tags.

I know guys who won’t go u less they draw a cow tag, because it isn’t worth hunting spikes.

Next year we may not hunt elk if one of us v doesn’t draw a cow tag.

Mule deer was no better.


Too much hunting of baby makers and predators is my thought. I would like to see a total ban on hunting cows for three years. And an increase on Predator hunting .

Ive got a trail cam in 342 and had plenty of cows with calves on it. alot of fawns to.

[Karl Blanchard]

I don't think people realize but right here right now we are living the glory days of elk in the United States. Obviously there are certain areas that are seeing struggle ie the Blues, region 1 of MT, etc, but as a whole there are more elk now than there has been in the last century. Opportunity is abound so go out and get em the more we kill the fewer there are to compete for forage with Mule deer which we all know is the lords deer

[Caseyd]

A crew running around with a 4 horse trailer (assuming tag holder), 2 regular camps and 2 cabins. Not a single person at touchet. 1 camp at Terpee. Cold and empty all week

[270Flat]

It’s been tough watching the elk demise in the Blue’s. It’s in my back yard. Elk stay down low in the private property where the wolves don’t play. Don’t migrate back in the spring as they use to. Too many cougars and not enough harvest.
Haven’t been back to our camp in the Blue’s in 5 years. Last hunt was void of elk and full of wolf sign. Decided to move out of state. Fast forward and now we have two young boys (11,13) that had their first elk tags/camp. So we hit the old stomping grounds. Very few camps as we have encountered in the past. Was COLD! As we headed in early Friday morning there were wolf track’s running down the road. I thought here we go again. Ended up seeing a few herds of elk in our drainage. Several calves with them. One really nice mule deer buck. Sunday afternoon we saw the unicorn! A spike elk with the kids tags in their pocket. We made a play at them deep at their spot. My brother had them at 300 yards but too steep to see them. We played with them until dark and had to get back to camp to pack up. Fun time’s getting the kiddos out for their first elk encounter. They had fun and want to go back. Nice to see the positive side from the younger generation. No With lacrosse this weekend the season was short for us. Hoping he’s (spike) there for my brother who also has a tag for the weekend.

[Coastie_Compton]

This year  muzzy we had two 342 cow tags in camp. Six hunters. We have hunted this unit for years.
We scouted in Sept. and counted 17 cows two with calves and one Spike in four days.

When the season opened we saw no elk until the last day when we came close on the cow tags.

I know guys who won’t go u less they draw a cow tag, because it isn’t worth hunting spikes.

Next year we may not hunt elk if one of us v doesn’t draw a cow tag.

Mule deer was no better.


Too much hunting of baby makers and predators is my thought. I would like to see a total ban on hunting cows for three years. And an increase on Predator hunting .

I wouldn't give up on 342 that easy. Maybe try a different part I spend a good bit of time in 342 and there is no shortage of elk. No shortage of elk in any of the yakima gmu's really. The Yakima herd is thriving at 11k animals. That's more elk than the region has ever had in its history except for a short window of time between like 2009-2012/13.

I second this, keep looking they are here and the numbers I have seen have been great.  Had a herd in there eating next to my truck when I got back from a hike. 

[highcountry_hunter]

I don't think people realize but right here right now we are living the glory days of elk in the United States. Obviously there are certain areas that are seeing struggle ie the Blues, region 1 of MT, etc, but as a whole there are more elk now than there has been in the last century. Opportunity is abound so go out and get em the more we kill the fewer there are to compete for forage with Mule deer which we all know is the lords deer

A lot of accuracy in this statement, especially the end bit about mule deer.

I remember as a kid in 90’s in the far NE corner, if you saw an elk it was a real treat and you didn’t dare tell a soul. Now they’re getting smoked by cars on 395 regularly.


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[TL23]

We have a cabin on Twin Buttes. I drove in early Saturday morning to see my dad and the rest of the crew. I did not see one track on the way in. On my way out Sunday morning I saw one lone deer track. Far less camps than there are normally. I would love to draw a Quality Tag in there to say, “I was able pursue a branch antlered elk at the cabin.” Not sure if there will be elk in there to pursue if I am ever lucky enough to draw a tag, with 15 points.

[270Flat]

Definitely elk in there… hardest part is drawing the tag!

[TL23]

Oh yeah I know they are in there. It’s just too bad that the numbers are so low. Yes, drawing the tag is quite the challenge. That’s what worries me, if the numbers continue to decline and it take however many more years to draw, will it be worth putting in for….?

[Dark2Dark]

This year  muzzy we had two 342 cow tags in camp. Six hunters. We have hunted this unit for years.
We scouted in Sept. and counted 17 cows two with calves and one Spike in four days.

When the season opened we saw no elk until the last day when we came close on the cow tags.

I know guys who won’t go u less they draw a cow tag, because it isn’t worth hunting spikes.

Next year we may not hunt elk if one of us v doesn’t draw a cow tag.

Mule deer was no better.


Too much hunting of baby makers and predators is my thought. I would like to see a total ban on hunting cows for three years. And an increase on Predator hunting .

Out of curiosity, if you think killing cows is part of the problem and they should eliminate it, why are you guys in there with cow tags?

I suppose if you don’t draw them someone else will. Maybe just draw the tag and don’t hunt them if you want to do your part. Obviously, nobody is going to do that.

The start and the end of the post just seem kinda contradictory.

[Dark2Dark]

This year  muzzy we had two 342 cow tags in camp. Six hunters. We have hunted this unit for years.
We scouted in Sept. and counted 17 cows two with calves and one Spike in four days.

When the season opened we saw no elk until the last day when we came close on the cow tags.

I know guys who won’t go u less they draw a cow tag, because it isn’t worth hunting spikes.

Next year we may not hunt elk if one of us v doesn’t draw a cow tag.

Mule deer was no better.


Too much hunting of baby makers and predators is my thought. I would like to see a total ban on hunting cows for three years. And an increase on Predator hunting .

Out of curiosity, if you think killing cows is part of the problem and they should eliminate it, why are you guys in there with cow tags?

I suppose if you don’t draw them someone else will. Maybe just draw the tag and don’t hunt them if you want to do your part. Obviously, nobody is going to do that.

The start and the end of the post just seem kinda contradictory.

[hunter399]

This year  muzzy we had two 342 cow tags in camp. Six hunters. We have hunted this unit for years.
We scouted in Sept. and counted 17 cows two with calves and one Spike in four days.

When the season opened we saw no elk until the last day when we came close on the cow tags.

I know guys who won’t go u less they draw a cow tag, because it isn’t worth hunting spikes.

Next year we may not hunt elk if one of us v doesn’t draw a cow tag.

Mule deer was no better.


Too much hunting of baby makers and predators is my thought. I would like to see a total ban on hunting cows for three years. And an increase on Predator hunting .

Out of curiosity, if you think killing cows is part of the problem and they should eliminate it, why are you guys in there with cow tags?

I suppose if you don’t draw them someone else will. Maybe just draw the tag and don’t hunt them if you want to do your part. Obviously, nobody is going to do that.

The start and the end of the post just seem kinda contradictory.

My two cents....
WDFW job to manage resources when it comes to antlerless tags.
No one can expect a hunter to draw a tag,use years of points,then not hunt it.
Even if hunters make suggestions to our commission or otherwise.
They wouldn't take us seriously anyway. It counted as hearsay, nonscientific ,ect,ect.

Basically you have to point the blame at the person who offered a tag opportunity for revenue.
Not the hunter who has waited years to draw a tag.
Just my opinion.

[Dark2Dark]

I definitely get that side of the argument.

I guess if I was very concerned about the herds in an area and felt like there were minimal elk there, I’d use my points to dry and draw a cow tag elsewhere. Especially if I was convinced that cow tags were a part of the problem.

I get that the problem there is that someone else will still probably buy and hunt the tag.

However, if people are seeing 75 cows and none have calves, to me that doesn’t really point to lack of cows for breeding. Sounds like poor survival conditions, poor bull to cow ratio, high predation during calving season, etc.

[Bullkllr]

I never read where he said he held a cow tag. Maybe it was guys he hunts with. Not seeing how he has control over them.

[jrebel]

Curious if the lack of camps for elk was isolated to the SW corner???   We hunted muzzy elk because my buddy drew a cow elk tag and we saw more camps than we usually see.  My observation is skewed as we have usually hunted the same area during archery season and only hunt the muzzy season if we draw a cow tag. 

I can say, we have stopped hunting elk unless someone draws a cow or bull tag.  To chase spike elk with a bow is not my idea of fun.   We spend that time hunting bear and deer now. 

As for the lack of cows....not sure I see it that way.  We consistently see more elk now in our normal haunts than we have ever seen.  I know the SE corner is the exception, but the rest of WA appear to have a very healthy elk herd and taking a few cows isn't going to hurt a thing.  We have also seen more bulls than ever in the last 5 years.  WDFW could definitely up their bull tags in my humble opinion.   

[hunter399]

It's like my situation right now.
Think I have 7 or 8  points in antlerless elk or something like that.
Next year will be 8 years I've been waiting for an opportunity.
If I ever draw ,I bet your bottom dollar ,I will hunt it.

This will be pretty harsh here....
It could be the last cow in the unit. If they are stupid enough to hand me a tag for the last animal. I'll hunt it.

I guess since my suggestion on regulation,and just standard wildlife observation is not good enough for consideration.
I feel it is not my job to manage resources at this point.
The commission and department chosen a path that doesn't include hunters in wildlife management.
Is what it is.

[westsidehntr]

It's like my situation right now.
Think I have 7 or 8  points in antlerless elk or something like that.
Next year will be 8 years I've been waiting for an opportunity.
If I ever draw ,I bet your bottom dollar ,I will hunt it.

This will be pretty harsh here....
It could be the last cow in the unit. If they are stupid enough to hand me a tag for the last animal. I'll hunt it.

I guess since my suggestion on regulation,and just standard wildlife observation is not good enough for consideration.
I feel it is not my job to manage resources at this point.
The commission and department chosen a path that doesn't include hunters in wildlife management.
Is what it is.

Yeah we all get that you are going to do what’s in your best interests, all the time. Screw everyone else. Typical of the modern world we live in.

[ghosthunter]

I never read where he said he held a cow tag. Maybe it was guys he hunts with. Not seeing how he has control over them.

Yes I had a cow tag. We hunted that unit past 10 or more years.

I think cow tags should go away across the board. But as long as tags are offered I will put in. I’ve paid my money over the years and  when more opportunity comes along I am going to take it.
Yeah I could draw it and not hunt it. But that serves no purpose. We are either all in or all out.
Going into the season I felt we had a chance to fill at least one tag. We actually had three tags. One guy didn’t hunt his tag because of a health issue.

We hunt this unit because we know it and like the terrain. We have hunted most the Yakima herd units over the years and like 342 the best. Our camp mostly tents is 6 miles off the Hwy and the road is rough enough to keep the big RV out.

But over the years the numbers in the area we hunt have gone down.

[baldopepper]

Curious if the lack of camps for elk was isolated to the SW corner???   We hunted muzzy elk because my buddy drew a cow elk tag and we saw more camps than we usually see.  My observation is skewed as we have usually hunted the same area during archery season and only hunt the muzzy season if we draw a cow tag. 

I can say, we have stopped hunting elk unless someone draws a cow or bull tag.  To chase spike elk with a bow is not my idea of fun.   We spend that time hunting bear and deer now. 

As for the lack of cows....not sure I see it that way.  We consistently see more elk now in our normal haunts than we have ever seen.  I know the SE corner is the exception, but the rest of WA appear to have a very healthy elk herd and taking a few cows isn't going to hurt a thing.  We have also seen more bulls than ever in the last 5 years.  WDFW could definitely up their bull tags in my humble opinion.

Never saw many elk in our area until the Carpenter road fire in 2015.  That fire seemed to have pushed elk north from the Fruitland area up to our area and they just stayed.  They have plenty of private ground sanctuaries to stay on so the herd has really grown. Don't see a lot of elk hunters around and I think it's due to the lack of public ground holding elk. These past big fires have repositioned lots of animals.  Can kinda say the same thing about the predators that got chased north and decided to stay.
 

 

[hunter399]

Curious if the lack of camps for elk was isolated to the SW corner???   We hunted muzzy elk because my buddy drew a cow elk tag and we saw more camps than we usually see.  My observation is skewed as we have usually hunted the same area during archery season and only hunt the muzzy season if we draw a cow tag. 

I can say, we have stopped hunting elk unless someone draws a cow or bull tag.  To chase spike elk with a bow is not my idea of fun.   We spend that time hunting bear and deer now. 

As for the lack of cows....not sure I see it that way.  We consistently see more elk now in our normal haunts than we have ever seen.  I know the SE corner is the exception, but the rest of WA appear to have a very healthy elk herd and taking a few cows isn't going to hurt a thing.  We have also seen more bulls than ever in the last 5 years.  WDFW could definitely up their bull tags in my humble opinion.

Never saw many elk in our area until the Carpenter road fire in 2015.  That fire seemed to have pushed elk north from the Fruitland area up to our area and they just stayed.  They have plenty of private ground sanctuaries to stay on so the herd has really grown. Don't see a lot of elk hunters around and I think it's due to the lack of public ground holding elk. These past big fires have repositioned lots of animals.  Can kinda say the same thing about the predators that got chased north and decided to stay.
 

 

Yup,know the area well.
Few friends of mine hunt elk around there.

[hughjorgan]

I never read where he said he held a cow tag. Maybe it was guys he hunts with. Not seeing how he has control over them.

Yes I had a cow tag. We hunted that unit past 10 or more years.

I think cow tags should go away across the board. But as long as tags are offered I will put in. I’ve paid my money over the years and  when more opportunity comes along I am going to take it.
Yeah I could draw it and not hunt it. But that serves no purpose. We are either all in or all out.
Going into the season I felt we had a chance to fill at least one tag. We actually had three tags. One guy didn’t hunt his tag because of a health issue.

We hunt this unit because we know it and like the terrain. We have hunted most the Yakima herd units over the years and like 342 the best. Our camp mostly tents is 6 miles off the Hwy and the road is rough enough to keep the big RV out.

But over the years the numbers in the area we hunt have gone down.

A few years ago my buddy drew 342 for the archery late hunt. There were a lot of elk in that unit and not many people harvesting cows when you look at the harvest reports. I highly doubt that we need to restrict cow elk hunting even more than it already has just cause you didn’t see what you have in the past. From what I’ve seen for elk numbers in 342 and the 352 the elk numbers are good, hopefully the game department increases some opportunity for all weapons.

[ghosthunter]

I never read where he said he held a cow tag. Maybe it was guys he hunts with. Not seeing how he has control over them.

Yes I had a cow tag. We hunted that unit past 10 or more years.

I think cow tags should go away across the board. But as long as tags are offered I will put in. I’ve paid my money over the years and  when more opportunity comes along I am going to take it.
Yeah I could draw it and not hunt it. But that serves no purpose. We are either all in or all out.
Going into the season I felt we had a chance to fill at least one tag. We actually had three tags. One guy didn’t hunt his tag because of a health issue.

We hunt this unit because we know it and like the terrain. We have hunted most the Yakima herd units over the years and like 342 the best. Our camp mostly tents is 6 miles off the Hwy and the road is rough enough to keep the big RV out.

But over the years the numbers in the area we hunt have gone down.

A few years ago my buddy drew 342 for the archery late hunt. There were a lot of elk in that unit and not many people harvesting cows when you look at the harvest reports. I highly doubt that we need to restrict cow elk hunting even more than it already has just cause you didn’t see what you have in the past. From what I’ve seen for elk numbers in 342 and the 352 the elk numbers are good, hopefully the game department increases some opportunity for all weapons.

It could be seasons, we hunt muzzy.  There may be more elk around there in November. I don’t have the answer. But every year seems to get worse.

[hunter399]

It's like my situation right now.
Think I have 7 or 8  points in antlerless elk or something like that.
Next year will be 8 years I've been waiting for an opportunity.
If I ever draw ,I bet your bottom dollar ,I will hunt it.

This will be pretty harsh here....
It could be the last cow in the unit. If they are stupid enough to hand me a tag for the last animal. I'll hunt it.

I guess since my suggestion on regulation,and just standard wildlife observation is not good enough for consideration.
I feel it is not my job to manage resources at this point.
The commission and department chosen a path that doesn't include hunters in wildlife management.
Is what it is.

Yeah we all get that you are going to do what’s in your best interests, all the time. Screw everyone else. Typical of the modern world we live in.

Not my decision on how many tags are given out.
What exactly should I do.
I'm not in charge of wildlife management in this state.
I send a few emails each year with suggestions on regulation.
I think I even put in a petition one time.
All tossed to the side, that's all I can do man.

Like said before ....
You can point the finger at your fellow hunter.
Or you can point the finger at the people who actually make these decisions. It's your choice.
Deer and Elk management has been put on the back burner.
For predator management.🤔
Is what it is.
I'm over it,with wildlife management.
My job is to buy tags and draws that support management.
Stay within the legal regulation.

[hughjorgan]

I never read where he said he held a cow tag. Maybe it was guys he hunts with. Not seeing how he has control over them.

Yes I had a cow tag. We hunted that unit past 10 or more years.

I think cow tags should go away across the board. But as long as tags are offered I will put in. I’ve paid my money over the years and  when more opportunity comes along I am going to take it.
Yeah I could draw it and not hunt it. But that serves no purpose. We are either all in or all out.
Going into the season I felt we had a chance to fill at least one tag. We actually had three tags. One guy didn’t hunt his tag because of a health issue.

We hunt this unit because we know it and like the terrain. We have hunted most the Yakima herd units over the years and like 342 the best. Our camp mostly tents is 6 miles off the Hwy and the road is rough enough to keep the big RV out.

But over the years the numbers in the area we hunt have gone down.

A few years ago my buddy drew 342 for the archery late hunt. There were a lot of elk in that unit and not many people harvesting cows when you look at the harvest reports. I highly doubt that we need to restrict cow elk hunting even more than it already has just cause you didn’t see what you have in the past. From what I’ve seen for elk numbers in 342 and the 352 the elk numbers are good, hopefully the game department increases some opportunity for all weapons.

It could be seasons, we hunt muzzy.  There may be more elk around there in November. I don’t have the answer. But every year seems to get worse.

Could very well have been that the archery late hunt had a bunch of elk move down from the high country. The year we hunted it there wasn’t a big snow though either


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[ghosthunter]

In 2013 the 342 success % was 11.9
In 2022 it was less than 4%.
For muzzle loader season. You would be hard pressed to find a success rate of 5% now in most E. Wa. Units for muzzy.

Your guess as why? Is as good as mine.

[hughjorgan]

Weren’t they giving out a bunch of cow tags in 342 at that time?

Seems to me the WDFW is constantly giving out lots of cow tags in this unit; this year alone between all 3 user groups it is closed to 400 tags I believe. WDFW must be trying to lower numbers; maybe agricultural conflicts are up?

[ghosthunter]

When we started hunting there it was 250 tags to 500 hunters, a 50% chance. Then they went to 500 cow tags and the bottom fell out. Logged the north end and two fires.

This year they were down to approx 85 cow permits.

[Mtnwalker]

Weren’t they giving out a bunch of cow tags in 342 at that time?

Seems to me the WDFW is constantly giving out lots of cow tags in this unit; this year alone between all 3 user groups it is closed to 400 tags I believe. WDFW must be trying to lower numbers; maybe agricultural conflicts are up?

Here is the response I got from a bio on the subject earlier this year:

We appreciate your interest and concern regarding our elk herds. I will do my best to articulate our reasoning and strategy and encourage you to reach back out for clarification or additional questions/comments. As a caveat, I can only truly speak to most recent tag allocation and the justification behind it. If you have not already consulted the herd management plans and status and trend reports I would encourage you to look at those resources in addition to this email; they have a lot of really good data and information regarding our management strategies and can elucidate our decision making rational.

 

From a broad perspective we manage elk through hunting and regulate hunting pressure dependent on managing populations to  defined objectives (see herd plans for specific) while maximizing hunting recreation, controlling agricultural damage, and ensuring ecosystem integrity. This means that variation in tag number is influenced by a number of social and ecological issues. We could discuss this at length and I would be happy to do so if you want to talk. Otherwise the more straight forward answer to your question is  elk herds in central Washington have not been within defined objectives and specific to your question bull ratios have NOT or trends indicated declines that warranted reductions in tags to ensure stability or growth; therefore tags have not been increased. Populations can experience declines due to a variety of reasons throughout time either harsh winters, summer droughts, fire, severe human disturbance, or other pressures. In some cases multiple pressure occur in a given year and can result in much larger negative impacts.  Sever winters in 2015-2016 and 2016-2017 impacted our populations leading to significant declines.

 

We have both population level objectives and specific herd composition objectives which help us assess the “health” of our herds and inform sustainable harvest levels.  In our tag decision making process we use:

Post-hunt estimations of total population size, bull: cow and calf: cow ratios
Trends in population size and ratios
Hunter success
 

It is easiest to discuss in terms of specific herds:

 

Yakima Elk herd

Up to 2017 Bulls ratios were well within objective but following harsh winters we saw a significant decline in bull ratios to well below objective in 2018 ( 7 bulls: 100 cows). Branches bulls tags have continued to be limited to encourage recovery to objective levels of  12-20 bulls: 100 cows.  The good news is more recent surveys in 2022 and 2023 indicate a positive trend to recovery and both population and bull:cow; calf:cow ratios are now within objective.  An increasing trend is positive for future opportunity to increase branched bulls tags. However by doing so too soon could mean pushing below objective and required careful consideration of multiple and potentially interacting factors.  We review tag limits on an annual basis and will seek to maximize harvest while meeting all our objectives, increased in branched bull tags will occur if it is assessed we can in future seasons for this herd.

[hughjorgan]

Weren’t they giving out a bunch of cow tags in 342 at that time?

Seems to me the WDFW is constantly giving out lots of cow tags in this unit; this year alone between all 3 user groups it is closed to 400 tags I believe. WDFW must be trying to lower numbers; maybe agricultural conflicts are up?

Here is the response I got from a bio on the subject earlier this year:

We appreciate your interest and concern regarding our elk herds. I will do my best to articulate our reasoning and strategy and encourage you to reach back out for clarification or additional questions/comments. As a caveat, I can only truly speak to most recent tag allocation and the justification behind it. If you have not already consulted the herd management plans and status and trend reports I would encourage you to look at those resources in addition to this email; they have a lot of really good data and information regarding our management strategies and can elucidate our decision making rational.

 

From a broad perspective we manage elk through hunting and regulate hunting pressure dependent on managing populations to  defined objectives (see herd plans for specific) while maximizing hunting recreation, controlling agricultural damage, and ensuring ecosystem integrity. This means that variation in tag number is influenced by a number of social and ecological issues. We could discuss this at length and I would be happy to do so if you want to talk. Otherwise the more straight forward answer to your question is  elk herds in central Washington have not been within defined objectives and specific to your question bull ratios have NOT or trends indicated declines that warranted reductions in tags to ensure stability or growth; therefore tags have not been increased. Populations can experience declines due to a variety of reasons throughout time either harsh winters, summer droughts, fire, severe human disturbance, or other pressures. In some cases multiple pressure occur in a given year and can result in much larger negative impacts.  Sever winters in 2015-2016 and 2016-2017 impacted our populations leading to significant declines.

 

We have both population level objectives and specific herd composition objectives which help us assess the “health” of our herds and inform sustainable harvest levels.  In our tag decision making process we use:

Post-hunt estimations of total population size, bull: cow and calf: cow ratios
Trends in population size and ratios
Hunter success
 

It is easiest to discuss in terms of specific herds:

 

Yakima Elk herd

Up to 2017 Bulls ratios were well within objective but following harsh winters we saw a significant decline in bull ratios to well below objective in 2018 ( 7 bulls: 100 cows). Branches bulls tags have continued to be limited to encourage recovery to objective levels of  12-20 bulls: 100 cows.  The good news is more recent surveys in 2022 and 2023 indicate a positive trend to recovery and both population and bull:cow; calf:cow ratios are now within objective.  An increasing trend is positive for future opportunity to increase branched bulls tags. However by doing so too soon could mean pushing below objective and required careful consideration of multiple and potentially interacting factors.  We review tag limits on an annual basis and will seek to maximize harvest while meeting all our objectives, increased in branched bull tags will occur if it is assessed we can in future seasons for this herd.

I would say the decline was self imposed leading up to the harsh winters. You can go back to the years prior and look at the take of cows. The two years prior to the winters they talk about the biologists gave out an abundance of cow tags that led to the taking of approximately 2000 cows out of the Yakima herd.

[jrebel]

 

Me and my hunting partner said at that time it was a mistake.   Not sure who made that decision but it was the dumbest decision ever.