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Author Topic: Otters and salmon  (Read 3216 times)

Offline Born2late

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Otters and salmon
« on: March 10, 2024, 06:09:08 PM »
I started trapping when I was 13 and stopped for quite a while until probably 15 years ago. I was duck hunting and was sitting by a farm ditch in stanwood that has salmon fry in it. I watched 3 otters eat an unbelievable amount of salmon fry for over a half hour. I got to thinking if they are in here doing that day after day with no predators to kill them they must put a massive dent in the salmon population. There are so many otters in my area it’s crazy. So I started trapping again to specifically target otters. The first couple I caught chewed holes through my cage wire while underwater and escaped, changed the trap wire size and began catching.
I don’t know what kind of quantities other people catch on here and catch in a year but it doesn’t seem like I hardly make a dent in the population. No matter where I trap I catch them even if targeting only beavers.
I’m trapping a lady’s side yard right now which has a bad beaver problem, I approached it as I’m there to catch beaver for her. This on the edge of town so pretty populated,I have caught 5 beaver and 4 otters .there is still one more beaver that I’m trying to catch. This is in a 40 yd distance of creek. When looking at this place I never would have thought I’d catch 4 otters there. Maybe 1.
My point In saying all this is I wonder how many salmon fry an otter consumes in a year. I just read this and I’ll put a snap shot up but a study says 2 adults and 2 juvenile otters in 6 weeks ate 3300 salmon fry! Image how much they eat in a year!
I’d be interested to know how many guys target otters and is it just my area that has piles of them or is it that way all over Western Washington? Seems like if we as trappers went after them in high population areas it would possibly help the salmon fry a little.

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2024, 06:38:39 PM »
I was called on a complaint at a fish hatchery. I caught 7 otter that were eating according to staff at the hatchery 6000 to 8000 fingerlings per day.
I also trapped some fish rearing pens at Lake Quinault where I caught 22 otter that were basically living there all the time going to the pens for their 3 squares a day. Catching those 22 otter reduced their depredation loss from 900,000/year the year before to 100,000/year after.
It seems impossible but you have to remember the majority of the fish they were eating were very small.

As for otter population in my limited range it seems like there are fewer otter than there used to be. I can't say that is true over the larger range of the State.
Before cages when we could use conibears I typically caught one otter for every 2 to 3 beaver. before that when we were using footholds trappers caught far fewer otter for the numbers of beaver. Not sure what the ratio might have been but the type of sets used mostly were not conducive to catching a lot of otter.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline Born2late

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2024, 07:02:59 PM »
Whoa. That’s a pile of otters. I live in Marysville and it seems to me that because most of the creeks and streams are in a area that don’t get trapped that they are safe havens for beavers and otters and when I get into a spot like I’m at now it’s barely scratching the surface of what the rest of the area holds because it doesn’t get trapped hardly at all.
Between the otters, cormorants, mergansers, kingfishers and all the other fish predators it amazes me that we get any kind of substantial fish return.

Offline JakeLand

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2024, 07:55:07 PM »
Ya I’m not far from you and we have a lot of otters , every trickle of water has them you’d think we would get more calls from hatcheries

Offline Alchase

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2024, 08:02:01 PM »
I started trapping when I was 13 and stopped for quite a while until probably 15 years ago. I was duck hunting and was sitting by a farm ditch in stanwood that has salmon fry in it. I watched 3 otters eat an unbelievable amount of salmon fry for over a half hour. I got to thinking if they are in here doing that day after day with no predators to kill them they must put a massive dent in the salmon population. There are so many otters in my area it’s crazy. So I started trapping again to specifically target otters. The first couple I caught chewed holes through my cage wire while underwater and escaped, changed the trap wire size and began catching.
I don’t know what kind of quantities other people catch on here and catch in a year but it doesn’t seem like I hardly make a dent in the population. No matter where I trap I catch them even if targeting only beavers.
I’m trapping a lady’s side yard right now which has a bad beaver problem, I approached it as I’m there to catch beaver for her. This on the edge of town so pretty populated,I have caught 5 beaver and 4 otters .there is still one more beaver that I’m trying to catch. This is in a 40 yd distance of creek. When looking at this place I never would have thought I’d catch 4 otters there. Maybe 1.
My point In saying all this is I wonder how many salmon fry an otter consumes in a year. I just read this and I’ll put a snap shot up but a study says 2 adults and 2 juvenile otters in 6 weeks ate 3300 salmon fry! Image how much they eat in a year!
I’d be interested to know how many guys target otters and is it just my area that has piles of them or is it that way all over Western Washington? Seems like if we as trappers went after them in high population areas it would possibly help the salmon fry a little.

3300 in six weeks equals 28,600 a year each!  :yike:
Only 2 defining forces sacrificed themselves for you:
The American Soldier and Jesus Christ. One died for your freedom, the other for your soul.

My rock,
He trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle.
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Offline Born2late

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2024, 08:37:18 PM »
I started trapping when I was 13 and stopped for quite a while until probably 15 years ago. I was duck hunting and was sitting by a farm ditch in stanwood that has salmon fry in it. I watched 3 otters eat an unbelievable amount of salmon fry for over a half hour. I got to thinking if they are in here doing that day after day with no predators to kill them they must put a massive dent in the salmon population. There are so many otters in my area it’s crazy. So I started trapping again to specifically target otters. The first couple I caught chewed holes through my cage wire while underwater and escaped, changed the trap wire size and began catching.
I don’t know what kind of quantities other people catch on here and catch in a year but it doesn’t seem like I hardly make a dent in the population. No matter where I trap I catch them even if targeting only beavers.
I’m trapping a lady’s side yard right now which has a bad beaver problem, I approached it as I’m there to catch beaver for her. This on the edge of town so pretty populated,I have caught 5 beaver and 4 otters .there is still one more beaver that I’m trying to catch. This is in a 40 yd distance of creek. When looking at this place I never would have thought I’d catch 4 otters there. Maybe 1.
My point In saying all this is I wonder how many salmon fry an otter consumes in a year. I just read this and I’ll put a snap shot up but a study says 2 adults and 2 juvenile otters in 6 weeks ate 3300 salmon fry! Image how much they eat in a year!
I’d be interested to know how many guys target otters and is it just my area that has piles of them or is it that way all over Western Washington? Seems like if we as trappers went after them in high population areas it would possibly help the salmon fry a little.

3300 in six weeks equals 28,600 a year each!  :yike:
Exactly my reaction!

Offline Born2late

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2024, 08:43:22 PM »
Ya I’m not far from you and we have a lot of otters , every trickle of water has them you’d think we would get more calls from hatcheries
Ya, you remember when I trapped down stream of the hatchery here. It was constantly producing otters every year. You’d think they would always have problems at every hatchery.

Offline Loup Loup

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2024, 08:54:12 PM »
Water Wolves.
I’ve watched otters hunting down the edge of EWa rivers. Just like a pack of wolves. Some otters hazing smolts out of the cutbacks to the others patrolling the outer perimeter. Also otter killing adult steelhead, Coho,Chinook in fishlanders at dams and just eating the roe. Any boulder or log extending out in the river with an adult salmon, steelhead on it with the roe eaten out of it. A hole in the ice ringed in whitefish, with the otters still diving down to bring up more for sport. Otter toilet areas covered in undigested roe from scat and vomit. They gorge on the fish whether the fish are coming or going.
You guys and gals on the coast know otters. Many otter at this sale at Lacey. Best pelt putup I’ve seen.

Offline Fishmaker57

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2024, 09:13:51 AM »
This is an issue I dealt with while working at and running hatcheries all over this state for 32years, along with Mink and Herons! They are persistent and very difficult to deter by physical barriers alone. I’ve tried everything, including high voltage electric fencing around raceways and ponds, but Otters will simply take the shock just to get at their food source. The only effective way, long term, is trapping. At almost every facility we ended up contracting with a trapper to reduce the population, but they always come back. What we are talking about applies to many species of predator - man made populations.

When you look at river systems that have hatcheries on them, you will always find a higher population of Otters, Minks, Herons, and Mergansers. Follow this downstream and you find a higher population of Harbor Seals, Sea Lions, and Commorants.

If you follow this logic, you will also find that it applies to the Killer Whale situation. This state has produced hundreds of millions of Salmon ever year for many decades, providing a food source for all predators that then produces a false population. Obviously you can’t just stop the train after it’s left the station, we are in a no win situation, it’s just a shame that the feds and the state would rather protect these predators and allow them to continue to grow, than let sportsman continue to fish.

The bottom line is lethal removal of these man made populations is the only viable option for some species......it’s called resource management, something this state knows little about anymore!

Offline JakeLand

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2024, 09:28:57 AM »
This is an issue I dealt with while working at and running hatcheries all over this state for 32years, along with Mink and Herons! They are persistent and very difficult to deter by physical barriers alone. I’ve tried everything, including high voltage electric fencing around raceways and ponds, but Otters will simply take the shock just to get at their food source. The only effective way, long term, is trapping. At almost every facility we ended up contracting with a trapper to reduce the population, but they always come back. What we are talking about applies to many species of predator - man made populations.

When you look at river systems that have hatcheries on them, you will always find a higher population of Otters, Minks, Herons, and Mergansers. Follow this downstream and you find a higher population of Harbor Seals, Sea Lions, and Commorants.

If you follow this logic, you will also find that it applies to the Killer Whale situation. This state has produced hundreds of millions of Salmon ever year for many decades, providing a food source for all predators that then produces a false population. Obviously you can’t just stop the train after it’s left the station, we are in a no win situation, it’s just a shame that the feds and the state would rather protect these predators and allow them to continue to grow, than let sportsman continue to fish.

The bottom line is lethal removal of these man made populations is the only viable option for some species......it’s called resource management, something this state knows little about anymore!
bingo 100%

Offline Mt.Beaver

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2024, 10:19:56 AM »
Lets add trout to the mix also. The lakes are loaded with otters and they take a load of trout. I had a family of 7 otters resting on my dock on Duck Lake in Ocean Shores a couple weeks ago.

Offline timberfaller

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2024, 10:45:37 AM »
Ssssssh! Predator's are ALL cute and cuddly!!  And they don't do any damage, there is not enough of them!!!
The only good tree, is a stump!

Offline Loup Loup

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2024, 01:20:37 PM »
Fishmaker57: thanks for your insight. I’ve worked around hatchery’s most of my career, and only saw the predator problem right in front of me. Never thought to trace the artificial gravey train downstream. Very good point.
Otter tenacity: at a hatchery an otter was coming in and feeding on spring chinook. The facility was very secure and I couldn’t see where this otter was coming in from. It snowed a couple inches and he left tracks. He came overland from the river, right up to the 8’ chain link fence. He climbed straight up the fence then went down the inside headfirst just like a squirrel would do. When he was done feeding he went out the same way. Never thought otters would climb a fence.
Also Fishmaker57, 3 years ago at a small hatchery mink were eating spring chinook. I caught 18 mink at that facility and their holding pond. And the kicker is, and I still ponder this, 17 were males

Offline Born2late

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2024, 01:29:19 PM »
Whoa! This is really amazing. I knew they were causing a large loss but some of the stuff you guys are sharing is incredible.
Also the man made problem is a good point. Thanks for sharing your experiences

Offline lewy

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Re: Otters and salmon
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2024, 10:04:53 AM »
I got to watch an otter this year from a short bridge, the river was chuck full of humpies and kings. The otter was diving down threw them to the bottom to get crawdads then coming up onto a rock to eat them, i figured he must have been tired of salmon as there were dozens partially eaten all over the banks. It was cool to watch
« Last Edit: March 12, 2024, 10:13:35 AM by lewy »
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