keeping a dog close

[Rowdy]

Great looking pup!!!  Sounds like he is just doing what most pointing dogs do, ranging.  If you got a good one, it looks and sounds like you do, they will want to find birds and hunt.  Work on obedience (recall, heal) and he'll be just fine.  I completely understand anyone who doesn't want to use or can't afford an e-collar but properly used on a properly conditioned dog they are a valuable training aid that can easily save a dogs life, without causing any harm.  When my pup sees me get out the e-collar he goes nuts knowing he is going somewhere to have some fun.  Good luck and again great looking pup.  Looks like he is or will be hell on birds 

Jake

[Skyvalhunter]

I second what Rowdy says!! As soon as I grab my chock collar my dog does circles and gets so excited. People have the misconception that you put the collar on and you are just shocking  the krap out of them.  My collar is adjustable and I believe it is well worth the investment. If you have ever seen a pup or dog just take off and no matter how much you call their name they just keep going. They get so focused I call it doggy ADD and if you have your shock collar even on beep mode you can break that focus they have. It can save their life if they took off after another dog across traffic then an accident might happen. Just my 

[gasman]

I was training my dog at the park and had distractions that were out of my controll. (other people and dogs) I would try to get to the fiend before most other people, but some times you can not avoid distractions, and in a middle of a good training session  .

Well, i after i got the collar, i was working him and we had another dog wal on the field, he took off after the other dog and did not look back when i called him. The next day we were at the park and he took off again, well, i was ready for it. I hit him on a low setting and nothing, I turned it up a notch, nothing, he was running as fast as he could. So i turned it up two notches, called his name, and hit the button. He stoped in his tracks, looked at me, i called his name again, hit him again and he came running back to me. From that day on, when ever another dog or person walked across the field, he would only stare at them. I would call him and he would come right back to me. He never broke again on me after that.

I fund that a E-caollar is an essential tool in training, when used correctly.

[Rowdy]

I was training my dog at the park and had distractions that were out of my controll. (other people and dogs) I would try to get to the fiend before most other people, but some times you can not avoid distractions, and in a middle of a good training session  .

Well, i after i got the collar, i was working him and we had another dog wal on the field, he took off after the other dog and did not look back when i called him. The next day we were at the park and he took off again, well, i was ready for it. I hit him on a low setting and nothing, I turned it up a notch, nothing, he was running as fast as he could. So i turned it up two notches, called his name, and hit the button. He stoped in his tracks, looked at me, i called his name again, hit him again and he came running back to me. From that day on, when ever another dog or person walked across the field, he would only stare at them. I would call him and he would come right back to me. He never broke again on me after that.

I fund that a E-caollar is an essential tool in training, when used correctly.

Good Example of what I was trying to say regarding the E-collar and keeping a dog where you want them.  Big running dogs (like mine) sometimes go deaf and so focused on something else that you can't stop them.  One little tap (that absolutely does not hurt him) and I have his attention again.  As long as I have hunting dogs I will have e-collars.  Peace of mind.

Jake

[Happy Gilmore]

I know what you guys are saying but, if you just went out and did this without collar conditioning you may set yourself up for not being prepared for a dog that bolts the first time a collar is put on him or, shuts down completely on you. Level of collar has little to do with it.

Collar conditioning first in controlled situations, then once the dog understands how to turn the collar pressure off, then you take him to the field. This takes a long time and has a defined procedure and steps to follow to get to the point of nicking(using collar) in the field and having him fully understand what the stimulus means.

Gasman-you've started your dog right so, it works right and your dog understands it. If you just go to cabelas, pick up a collar strap it on and say here, spark the dog when it doesn't listen, your results won't be favorable or, when you try to do some training which is more complex, you will have a very confused dog who won't work for you.....

It will get the dogs attention, no doubt. If that's all you use it for is no, it will work. Better to teach no from the get go without using it. No and here are the most basic of skills for a dog. You should never use a collar to teach no and here......it is just being lazy in my opinion and your dog won't ever reach its hunting potential if that is what you use it for.

Much easier to teach obedience than to fix problems which can be caused by one short zap of a collar that your dog will remember for a long, long time.

Don't get me wrong....I put the collar on my dog almost every day but,

I set up the situations which will make the collar get used. Using a collar in response to an unplanned event is not dog training in most situations.

[gasman]

I agree with Happy 100%.

My dog was collar conditioned before this situation occured, but, i will collar contion our new dog also, it is worth the time and peace of mind, at least for me it is.

[jetjockey]

I agree with Happy 100% as well on the e-collar. They are just an extension of a check cord when used properly.

 You just have to realize what you have.  A big running dog can be a thing of beauty or frustration.  You will get frustrated if the dog isn't broke and pushes birds by creeping in on them when hes 200 yards away from you.  BUT, if your dog is trained, and completely broke, then a big running dog will find you so many more birds its not funny.  There is a reason field trail breeders breed for HUGE running dogs.  Its not uncommon for a dog to hold a point for 10-15 minutes and not budge, even when the bird walks away from the dog.  This gives you time to catch up and either shoot the bird, or allow your dog to reset and find the bird again with you closer to the bird. A really really good dog won't get a ton of wild flushes since they will smell and point early enough not to bump the birds.

I have a 1 year old Brit that is in training in Virginia and will be at summer camp in S. Dakota for 3 months.  She will be trained off horseback and hopefully she will run big.  She will run Derby trails this fall to see her real potential.  A big running Brit that is trained well isn't easy to come by.  Judging from the long legs of your pup I would guess there is some good breeding in your dogs bloodlines.  I know its hard to watch your dog hunt a couple hundred yards infront of you in open cover, but once you get used to it you will never want a small running dog again.  They will also learn to stay much closer in heavy cover. I know that labs are the prefered upland dog in WA state ( I have lived in GA for 2 years, but WA is still my home) but once you hunt over a good pointing dog that runs you just feel crippled by a close working lab.    I had no idea how big bird dogs were in the south until I moved here.  If your not running a HUGE running English Pointer or Setter in the quail woods then guys look down on you.  (well, they used to until Nolan's Last Bullet came along).    If you have a big running Brit dont real him in, work on getting him trained well so he will listen to your comands and is 100% broke.  Then watch your friends be envious when he finds 3 time as many birds as your buddies dogs.

[Rowdy]

Jetjockey and Happy,
Agree, agree, agree!!!
That is why I mentioned collar conditioning in my posts, it is a must.
I want my dog to run big but I also understand that some don't.  I hunt Chukar exclusively and I want my pup to cover ground and lots of it.  He's young but trained and by the middle of the season was not busting birds just standing them.  Thing of beauty!
I also agree about the build of that brit, leggy.  Looks like he can cover some ground and sounds like he wants to.  My type of dog!  Good luck.  The old saying, the only thing two dog trainers ever agree on is the third trainer is wrong  .

Hunt em up!

Jake

[jetjockey]

Just for grins, here is a couple of pict of my 1 year old brit on point.  The first one is her at 4 months on her first bird ever.  We put a quail in a release and let her go out and find it.  Once she did, she jumped all over the release and lost her mind.  We pulled her back and released the bird.  It flew 50 yards away and flew under the truck (dumb pen raised quail).  We let her go and she found the bird and locked up.  She was on point for almost 5 minutes without budging allowing us to walk over to her, get the camera from the truck, and take a couple pictures.  Too bad we couldn't get her to budge because you cant see much from the picture.   The second pictures are of her at 7 months after pointing between 30 and 40 birds.  I should have released the check cord because she didn't need it but I wanted my wife to get the picture.  If you look at her she is pretty petite but has good bone structure, muscle mass, and long legs for a brit.  She has 5 HOF ABC dogs in her pedigree and her sire is a FC/AFC and is just reaching his prime at 8 years old.  The reason I show you this is because from the pictures, and what you describe your dog seems to be well bred.  My pup has long legs but I'm not sure you pup doesn't have longer legs yet.  If your dog is running off out of visual range but comes back when called, that is a very good thing.  Its also good if your dog can run 100+ yards out when your working him.  It shows your dog has a lot of confidence at a young age.  My pup will run 200-300 yards in a hearbeat and so far she seems to be showing some real good All Age Field Trail dog potential.  If your pup has good prey drive then you may have no idea what you have.  If your worried about losing him, spend the money and get a GPS collar.  It will be the best piece of mind you will ever get with a big running dog.  I love dog picts so I figured Id throw a couple more in there.  In the bottom 2 picts the first dog is the dame of my pup.  Shes a great hunting dog and better then 99% of all the dogs Ive ever hunted over.  In the second pict she is backing her daughter who was breed from Nolans Last Bullet (Buddy), the winningest NSTRA dog ever.  Last year was her first year on the NSTRA circuit and this year she will be 2 1/2 and I think she is going to really start to shine.  Both dogs are very comfortable 200-300 yards away, and they are very staunch on point.   Anyways, just thought you might like to see a couple of brit picts.  You have a great looking dog that might just suprise you.  If he wants to run big let him.  

[Missing]

Thanks for all the pointer (no pun intended) I will put them to use. I am also working on pointing and am having some success, but am learning that it is a slow process.

[merlo105]

100 yards aint to bad people dont want there dogs to range far in the woods because there not comfortable with the dogs pointing if hes trained good a 100 yards is just 100 yards. 20 yards is way to close if you are gonna be grouse hunting 45 50 is about right if you want your dog close. If the dogs whoa broke then everytime the dog gets out of range stop it after awhile it will get the idea. teach it better quartering it will often keep the dog closer and hunting with the nose in the wind will keep him in also for the fact that he aint gonna have to cover more land to find sent... Shock collar aint gonna do awhole lot unless you aint scarred of turning your dog off from hunting.....

[zelda02]

All of the info from jetjockey and rowdy are going in the right direction. In most cases after your dog is broke he will naturally shorten up to suit your needs. Yes, e-collar condition your dog. You could buy the Garmin Astro if you are worried about losing him. Also, don't kill birds he has not pointed. Make him earn the retrieve or reward as the dog sees it. Have you started him on pointing drills? Make him understand that he cannot catch his prey, that will enhance his point. Remember your dog will hunt alot more ground than any flusher breed, as long as they will stand their birds it should not be a problem for you kill a limit. If you need names of local trainers let me know.

[jetjockey]

Zelda had great advice.  Don't let your pointing dog catch a bird!  And don't shoot a bird your dog didn't point.  Don't be afraid of the E-Collar either.  If you condition your pup to it its not a "shock" collar.  However, you do need to get a good collar with lots of stimulation levels so you don't zap your dog.  E-collars when used correctly DO NOT hurt your dog.

 Once you hunt over a really good pointing dog, you will never want to hunt upland birds over a flushing dog again.

[Grizzle]

Just a note of caution of calling a young dog back when you cannot see him/her, especially once they're pointing and especially if you are in a field with birds/scent.  Its real easy to unknowingly call a dog off point.   If you do it enough times he might just start blowing by some birds, so just be cautious with a young dog.

Also keep in mind that a young dog will come back to your lip squeaks because he's a pup and he needs you.   He not really being obedient, just needy. Once he bolds up a bit, he's likely to ignore your pleading altogether and head for the hills for a proper romp.