Primitive Weapons Ain't So Primitive Anymore....

[GASoline71]

Yep, I have a buddy that him, his 2 sons and his dad all 4 tagged out this year with muzzleloader.  He said it's the first time ever they have all taken bulls.  Usually, they get one bull in they are lucky, and maybe a cow if one of them is drawn. He said the 1x scopes are a game changer.

Modern muzzleloaders are basically a modfern rifle nowadays.  First it was inlines, then it was pelletized powders, then it was 209 modern ignitions, then it was fiber optic sights, then it was sabots, then it was jacketed bullets, then it was closed breech to keep the nipple/primer out of the elements, now it's 1x scopes. Archery has seen some of the same types of technological timelines on their side.

We need to start going backwards and put some of the restrictions back on. 

Gary

[Mtnwalker]

More hunters hunting every year with more efficient ways of killing and keeping the same seasons will have a negative effect.


Reducing more and more seasons is a coming.

There are actually fewer hunters every year. Our heritage is disappearing.

Not so sure about that post-pandemic, for now anyways. One thing that will certainly hurt recruitment in the long term is reduction of opportunity via public land access, game populations and tag availability. When new hunters struggle to find success, they give up.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/national-hunting-fishing-survey-results/

[mr.ktm95]

I don’t disagree, but what about the rifles guys shooting out past 500? Unfortunately the better technology gets the more capable these guns will get. The industry is in an interesting spot as they need to be competitive with the next cutting edge idea, which then has more residual effects that we think.

[2MANY]

I’ve been saying it for years. We’re in for a real shock in 10-15 years in the hunting world. I think the unfortunate truth is that as technology has increased the ethics have decreased. Too many people willing to test the limits of the new technology. My personal limitations with my compound bow are only 10-15 yards farther than my limits with my recurve. It’s not that I can’t shoot 70-80 yards consistently with my compound, it’s that I know there are too many factors that can go wrong in the time it takes for an arrow to fly that far.

Too many people trying to kill animals with rifles at 1000+ yards, and guys slinging arrows at 70-100. People here haven’t even really seen the crazy muzzleloaders yet. Guys back East and in the Midwest are shooting muzzleloaders that use pistol cartridges as primers and custom swaged bullets to shoot sub moa at 500 yards.


We’re losing track of what hunting is all about in the chase for fame and fortune on the backs of big bucks and bulls.

Keeping short range short.
I commend you!

[WWC]

When this topic was discussed at the GMAC the focal point was retention, one of the R3 goals. The discussion of clarifiers and 1x scopes we had by archery representatives and older hunters. For those folks needing reader glasses the alternative was hunting rifle or hanging it up. It was agreed that if we recommended clarifiers were made legal then 1x scopes should be. That was the consensus of the GMAC. It was also stated that if harvest changed the allocation would have to be changed as well.

Hunting participation did take a bump during Covid restrictions, how ever they have dropped to near normal numbers. Sportsmen need to be more active in harvesting predators as they are having the largest impact on numbers. The commission has hambstung the department with the tools available to manage ungulate numbers. Bear hunting  partispation should be increased. Very few Sportsmen took advantage of harvesting 2 bears. Cougars have mostly been harvested as incidental take while chasing deer and elk. The commission has been steadily been tightening the rules on predator hunting. At the current point a change in political leadership will make the biggest impact for sportsmen.

[Special T]

I am curious to see how the harvest numbers work out now that the scopes have been allowed.

[MADMAX]

Perhaps a true primitive weapons season should be discussed .
Set the parameters and establish it.

I remember painting my bow sight pins with high glow orange pink and green paint
And using black powder only in my 50 Hawken with a buckhorn sight

[Feathernfurr]

When this topic was discussed at the GMAC the focal point was retention, one of the R3 goals. The discussion of clarifiers and 1x scopes we had by archery representatives and older hunters. For those folks needing reader glasses the alternative was hunting rifle or hanging it up. It was agreed that if we recommended clarifiers we made legal then 1x scopes should be. That was the consensus of the GMAC. It was also stated that if harvest changed the allocation would have to be changed as well.

Hunting participation did take a bump during Covid restrictions, how ever they have dropped to near normal numbers. Sportsmen need to be more active in harvesting predators as they are having the largest impact on numbers. The commission has hambstung the department with the tools available to manage ungulate numbers. Bear hunting  partispation should be increased. Very few Sportsmen took advantage of harvesting 2 bears. Cougars have mostly been harvested as incidental take while chasing deer and elk. The commission has been steadily been tightening the rules on predator hunting. At the current point a change in political leadership will make the biggest impact for sportsmen.

I’ve made this argument for years that not enough people predator hunt. Simultaneously people complain constantly about predators and gate keep information. Maybe I’m naive, but in my mind if I complain about predators, fill my predator tags, and know about hillsides with bears on them then I’m pointing fellow hunters in that direction and providing useful information when asked about it.

[Dark2Dark]

The reality is fewer people hunt each year and technological improvements in hunting aren’t going to change that.

I would feel better if hunting was growing because that would be better for long term opportunities. Having the whole state to myself sounds great, in theory, but in actuality, if I was the only person left interested in hunting, it wouldn’t be allowed.

Strength in numbers helps with rights, opportunities, management and conservation, as long as things are managed well.

Elk success rates in Washington with a rifle suck. I doubt allowing 1x scopes on a single shot weapon with still relatively limited range is going to cause success rates to skyrocket.

[mcrawfordaf]

When this topic was discussed at the GMAC the focal point was retention, one of the R3 goals. The discussion of clarifiers and 1x scopes we had by archery representatives and older hunters. For those folks needing reader glasses the alternative was hunting rifle or hanging it up. It was agreed that if we recommended clarifiers we made legal then 1x scopes should be. That was the consensus of the GMAC. It was also stated that if harvest changed the allocation would have to be changed as well.

Hunting participation did take a bump during Covid restrictions, how ever they have dropped to near normal numbers. Sportsmen need to be more active in harvesting predators as they are having the largest impact on numbers. The commission has hambstung the department with the tools available to manage ungulate numbers. Bear hunting  partispation should be increased. Very few Sportsmen took advantage of harvesting 2 bears. Cougars have mostly been harvested as incidental take while chasing deer and elk. The commission has been steadily been tightening the rules on predator hunting. At the current point a change in political leadership will make the biggest impact for sportsmen.

I’ve made this argument for years that not enough people predator hunt. Simultaneously people complain constantly about predators and gate keep information. Maybe I’m naive, but in my mind if I complain about predators, fill my predator tags, and know about hillsides with bears on them then I’m pointing fellow hunters in that direction and providing useful information when asked about it.

 

[GASoline71]

When this topic was discussed at the GMAC the focal point was retention, one of the R3 goals. The discussion of clarifiers and 1x scopes we had by archery representatives and older hunters. For those folks needing reader glasses the alternative was hunting rifle or hanging it up. It was agreed that if we recommended clarifiers we made legal then 1x scopes should be. That was the consensus of the GMAC. It was also stated that if harvest changed the allocation would have to be changed as well.

Hunting participation did take a bump during Covid restrictions, how ever they have dropped to near normal numbers. Sportsmen need to be more active in harvesting predators as they are having the largest impact on numbers. The commission has hambstung the department with the tools available to manage ungulate numbers. Bear hunting  partispation should be increased. Very few Sportsmen took advantage of harvesting 2 bears. Cougars have mostly been harvested as incidental take while chasing deer and elk. The commission has been steadily been tightening the rules on predator hunting. At the current point a change in political leadership will make the biggest impact for sportsmen.

I’ve made this argument for years that not enough people predator hunt. Simultaneously people complain constantly about predators and gate keep information. Maybe I’m naive, but in my mind if I complain about predators, fill my predator tags, and know about hillsides with bears on them then I’m pointing fellow hunters in that direction and providing useful information when asked about it.

I have to admit that I fell into that category.  I always held bear and cougar tags, but only had them in case I saw one while deer or elk hunting and could get a shot on them.  But never really pursued them.  Now, ever since the spring bear debacle in this state, I have gone out during bear and cougar seasons with the sole intent on taking one of them.  Also, if I see a bear or cougar on any deer or elk hunt... well, that hunt now changes into a predator hunt. 

Gary

[Feathernfurr]

I’ve tried to chase them more intentionally as well in recent years. Even swapping to rifle on those occasions knowing that the goal is more about getting one down than the experience. Being a born and raised whitetail hunter, I’ll admit predators have evaded me with the exception of coyotes. I tried for the longest time to get exposure to hound hunting for lions and bears but those fellas are tight lipped. It was easy to find bears when all I had to do was find a south facing slope. The west side has definitely increased the difficulty.

[Special T]

The reality is fewer people hunt each year and technological improvements in hunting aren’t going to change that.

I would feel better if hunting was growing because that would be better for long term opportunities. Having the whole state to myself sounds great, in theory, but in actuality, if I was the only person left interested in hunting, it wouldn’t be allowed.

Strength in numbers helps with rights, opportunities, management and conservation, as long as things are managed well.

Elk success rates in Washington with a rifle suck. I doubt allowing 1x scopes on a single shot weapon with still relatively limited range is going to cause success rates to skyrocket.

It's my opinion that less people hunt because it's harder to be sucessful. When I take kids out I like to do it youth bird season because they always get action and pull the trigger. I have not pursued predators as much as I should, but got a cat tag and no deer or elk. I see some of this conversation fighting over a shrinking pie, and that helps nobody.

[JimmyHoffa]

Yeah specialT, and people need to see stuff to stay interested.  As the number and size of clear cuts declines; people seem to burn out a little faster.  For the Westside, the clear cuts are the only places I can think of that the tech changes are really providing a significant advantage.

[Sundance]

I just sighted in my red dot yesterday for my in-line muzzy. Getting everything set up for the potential late deer season, man does it make a world of difference. I wasn't for them being allowed, but figured I try it out for the heck of it. Target acquisition is way faster, and I can actually see what I'm aiming at when shooting 100 yards. I'm not a long range shooter, but this new sight will definitely give me a larger advantage over the Williams peep sights. Maybe I'll take it off after the season and put it on another platform, but I think everyone's suspicions will be confirmed when the 2024 harvest reports are published.