Old 22’s

[elkrack]

A buddy of mine acquired three old 22s that we don’t really have to much knowledge of. We did some internet searches. Two are Remington octagon barrels and the other is an Atlas n co 1890 youth 22. The one Remington is a 12-c pump action and looks to be made pre 1922 due to no identifying numbers on the barrel near the receiver. The other Remington is a roll block single shot. He isn’t really looking to sell but just looking for approximate values. The actions seem to work flawlessly and he’s hoping to be able to shoot them. If anyone has better knowledge of them that would be cool to learn a little bit more information.

Thanks Mike

[Dan-o]

@JDHasty

[JDHasty]

The Atlas and Co fires from an unlocked breach.  Maybe, if you can locate some 22 Short CB  it would be fun to shoot it.  The other two should be good, but it would be a good idea to have someone take a look at them.  Is there a caliber marking on them?  Both are outstanding designs and quite strong. 

[elkrack]

The pump action has 22 stamped on the underside of the barrel. That pump would be fun to shoot IMO. I’ll have to send him to the gunsmith I use to get them cleared hot. Thanks for the info. I’ll update after he gets them checked out

[BA Mongor]

I had a pump 22 identical to that. It was from the 1950's and I killed a lot of bunnies and grouse with it.

[Chris57]

Probably should only shoot standard velocity rounds through them.

[JDHasty]

The Model 12 is more likely than not S, L, LR.  They made Model 12 gallery guns chambered in S only though.  CCI SV 22 LR is what I would shoot in it.  The Remington looks to me to be a Model 4, I’m not an expert on rollers, but believe the Model 6 (a tiny little gun) was also available.  The Model 4 is a fairly robust rifle, but I’d favor shooting SV ammo in it as well.  Hopefully the bore in them is in good shape.  If it looks bad on any it may still shoot surprisingly well… or not.  With CB loads, make sure the bullet makes it out of the barrel and isn’t stuck in the barrel on each shot before shooting another round. 

[lewy]

I love old 22's, those are very cool

[elkrack]

The Model 12 is more likely than not S, L, LR.  They made Model 12 gallery guns chambered in S only though.  CCI SV 22 LR is what I would shoot in it.  The Remington looks to me to be a Model 4, I’m not an expert on rollers, but believe the Model 6 (a tiny little gun) was also available.  The Model 4 is a fairly robust rifle, but I’d favor shooting SV ammo in it as well.  Hopefully the bore in them is in good shape.  If it looks bad on any it may still shoot surprisingly well… or not.  With CB loads, make sure the bullet makes it out of the barrel and isn’t stuck in the barrel on each shot before shooting another round.

Noted!! Thanks for that heads up. I believe it is a model 4

[JDHasty]

I love old 22's, those are very cool

They are a lot of fun.

I rescue refugees from the parts gun racks or wherever I can find them and tinker with them.  I don’t like to mess up collectible rifles, so the ones I start with are usually pretty rough when they show up here. If I didn’t adopt them they would be sold to gun breakers and stripped for parts.  Lot of pitting, corrosion and the wood is pretty beat up on most of them.  They need a little draw filing and block polishing and either repair or replacement of the wood by the time I get them.  A lot of them the bore is rotted out, it’s no big deal to put a liner in most of them.  The Remington Model 12 is a bit more involved, hopefully yours has a good bore.  The Model 12/121 takes a bit more effort than something like a Winchester 1890 or a single shot. 

When I get done I give most of them to the kids.  I did this one recently, I should have known it was going to set off an arms race.  Now I have to do a couple more half nickel ones. 

[JDHasty]

The kids really like the nickel.  This color case one was a real wreck when I got it.  It was my daughter’s, she asked if she could get a trade in on the nickel and rust blue one.  I said sure and my son said that was no fair.  I think the color case one will end up being mine. 

[boneaddict]

Thats the gun I have.  The first gun I shot.   The first gun my girls shot.   I cant remember the numbers on it year wise.

[elkrack]

Wow those are awesome JD! Beautiful work

[bullfisher]

Bump to the top for JD’s work. Excellent.! 

[JDHasty]

It’s a lot of fun playing around in the basement with old beaters.  As long as you are fine with starting with a basket case, you can find a victim at a pretty reasonable price.  Winchester 73s, 92s, 1885s, 1886s, Colt Lightnings, a few of the Marlins come to mind as exceptions to that, but Winchester 1890s, 75s/69a’s, Remington Model 12s/121s and 500 series bolt actions, Stevens 44s, Remington rollers and to a degree Winchester 62a’s & 06s, and some of the common Marlins are readily available.  There are others, but these came to mind just off the top of my head as models that are going to give you a return on the effort you put into them, AND, not to underestimate the importance of this, you can locate parts for them. 

I can find parts for more obscure models because others who do this sometimes find parts they need by calling me.  If we can’t find a part, we just make it.  I can’t emphasize strongly enough that making a part, or even finding someone who can is not going to be even in the same ballpark as those who have no experience imagine.  Yea, so if you need a certain screw and can’t locate it, just make one.  Easy enough until, it comes time to cut 20.5 pitch threads.  Yea, you read that right.  20.5 pitch.  If you are restoring or customizing a Stevens 44, you just buy a used or new one for under a sawbuck shipped right to your home.  Stevens 44s are common enough that finding a used part on eBay is generally doable, and it’s is common enough that somebody, probably Wisner’s, can justify a custom made $2K die to cut the threads because they can sell enough screws to recover the cost and still make a profit.  When you start looking at less commonly available rifles, neither is the case.  So, a lot of the time you are best off looking for a parts gun and, you guessed it, they are not that easy to come by either.  Springs are like screws, but you can usually make one and if you are lucky you will have a good one on the second or third try unless you have a professional heat treating setup. 

If anyone were to ask me what would be a good place to start, I’d look at a bolt action Winchester 69a or maybe a 72, and any of the Remington five series as well.  The slide and lever actions and single shots are a bit more difficult in a lot of ways, but doable if you are patient and take your time.  The Winchester Model 1890 in 22 Short like the nickel and color case ones above or 22 WRF, or it’s derivatives the Model 1906 and 62a in 22 S, L, LR, are favorites of mine because they are available and particularly attractive even when not embellished with color case, nickel plating and/or high end wood.  I am not big on ostentatious wood, but like something above utility grade walnut.  As a general rule I may fork over $50 to $100 in addition to what the base wood will cost.  That puts a little figure on it and that is what I prefer.  Here’s the deal on wood though, if you give a utility grade stock as much loving as you would a $2,000 stock, you are going to end up with a rifle that folks want to hold, touch and look at.  All it costs you is your time and since you do this to keep yourself entertained, the longer it takes the more entertainment you get from it.  Right?  Oh well, I tried.  But, in all seriousness, I just wrapped up a couple stocks in the last couple days.  I spent about twenty minutes with each every day for the last month.  Neither are exceptionally figured, in fact one is pretty common.  Both are hanging in my shop and both have gotten a lot of praise from everyone who has stopped by. 

Here’s another color case 1890, a guy I know did the color on it.  He taught himself how by reading books and reaching out to guys who are doing it.  That’s pretty common in this game.  That’s all I have right now on that project.  We are waiting on barrels and wood, and I need a bolt for it as well as a few odds and ends to get going on it.  I’m going to basically build this one from scratch.  New barrel and new wood.  I have a couple of 1890’s I could tear down and use the parts to build a rifle around this action, but I’m going to rebuild them instead.  I have a half nickel Model 06 Expert and a Model 61 that parts are at the plating outfit and a guy I know is doing rust bluing for me on.  They should be back later this week.  I’ll try and get a few photos of them posted when I get them put back together. 

I put a couple pictures of a BRNO ZKM below it.  They are another good candidate.  However there are a couple parts that can be hard to source.  If you have one, I wouldn’t hesitate to use it as basis fr a project.  If you are buying a victim, you should think twice before buying an incomplete one.  I’m not saying don’t, but talk to someone and know what you are getting into first.  The Model 1, 2 or 5 all will make up into extremely accurate and very nice looking finished rifles.  The CZ 452 was the last of the ZKMs.  We are all familiar with what an outstanding rifle that is.  The earlier ones are as nice or in a lot of cases even better. 

If this looks like something you want to try, I am usually fine with talking to most annyone about it.

 I have recently transitioned from being gainfully employed to being a full time Lay About, Gimme Dat.  When I’m not laying about or trying to deal with the logistics involved in signing up for my fair share of gimme dats, I’m usually down in my basement shop messing with something.

[storyteller]

I would call you a very talented and resourceful person.    Very nice work, it is nice to see this kind of work.

[JDHasty]

Here’s a Stevens 44.  There are a lot of beaters around.  They make up into a very accurate and attractive rifle.  This one got a little expensive because we made up a second barrel in 17 HMR.  I lined the rotted out 22 LR barrel and had I not wanted that second barrel it wasn’t bad.  Barrel liners are cheap if you put them in yourself. 

You can change the barrels out in a couple minutes on Stevens 44s. 

[boneaddict]

Cool work JD!

[HntnFsh]

Impressive!

[bearhunter99]

Impressive JD!  I love old 22s.  I have a few in the safe that are waiting for the day I have some time to mess with them.  A Remington Model 6 rolling block, a Mossberg 151M, an 1890, an old Marlin 60 and a couple others that caught my fancy at some point.

The first one I want to get started on is the Mossberg.  It was the rifle I learned to shoot with, needs some love. I needed a new feed tube spring that broke 30 years ago.  Back then they were extremely hard to find but I found one recently thanks to the internet.  I have all the parts now just need to spend some time restoring the stock and getting it all put back together.

[JDHasty]

Those are all solid rifles that you will be glad you put some effort into. 

The Mossberg 151M it would be a good idea to stay with SV ammo, if you are not already.  They can be tricky to reassemble correctly.  Detailed disassembly and reassembly instructions are in this thread on RFC.  https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/my-new-rifle-old-mossberg-151m-info-needed.1272612/
When I come across information like that I print it out and file it for future reference.  It may come in handy someday and things online can end up disappearing into a black hole when you really need them. 

[EnglishSetter]

Nice stuff.  Color me impressed.

I have an old Ithica single shot lever action.  Functions fine and is all there, but I have to move the sights wayyy over to get them on target.  Dunno if barrel is bent or just rotted out.  It kinda got mothballed, but I'd like to have it properly evaluated as to the remedy.

[bearhunter99]

Those are all solid rifles that you will be glad you put some effort into. 

The Mossberg 151M it would be a good idea to stay with SV ammo, if you are not already.  They can be tricky to reassemble correctly.  Detailed disassembly and reassembly instructions are in this thread on RFC.  https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/my-new-rifle-old-mossberg-151m-info-needed.1272612/
When I come across information like that I print it out and file it for future reference.  It may come in handy someday and things online can end up disappearing into a black hole when you really need them.

Thanks for the link!  I will have to get that printed out and put in the box.  I have dealt with that before.  Saved a link and went back later and it was gone.  I always loved the look of the 151 with the full stock and it was always an accurate shooter. 


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[mountainman]

Nice work JD!
Good to see you here again my friend!

[JDHasty]

Thank you for the complements. 

I kinda, sorta stumbled across a Second Model 1890, that caught my eye.  I called about it and likely would have gone for it anyway, but inquired about the bore.  The guy hadn’t looked at it, when he did probably thought that it was going to be sitting there for months and months.  My inclination was he was glad to have me still interested.  One thing lead to another and long story short is I ended up with it and a Winchester Model 61 and a Marlin 39a by the time all was said and done. 

The latter two didn’t need much, but the 1890 needed a barrel liner.  I didn’t go into great detail, but I did post about how I do barrel liners. 
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/i%E2%80%99m-feeling-pretty-good-about-this-model-61-model-90-model-39a-w-lyman-receiver-site.1317933/

I post about my projects mostly at RFC because I have ran out of my allotted server space other places for the photos.  Maybe I’ll post a real project here if/when I have something that is in need of a comprehensive overhaul.  That way if someone is interested in any aspect it should be covered.  Stock repairs -vs- fitting a 90-95% stock set would be the exception.  It would be either one or the other.  But both would need finishing.  Any real basket case is going to need everything.  I’ll keep my eyes open and see if something doesn’t turn up.  I’m always up for doing an 1890, 1906 or 62a.  A Marlin 1891 or any of its descendants would work.  A 44 Stevens or 1885 Winchester maybe, but I’d have to be talked into a Model 44 and even a thoroughly trashed 1885 costs real money.  Maybe I’ll stumble across a Model 6 Remington roller. 

[actionshooter]

Thank you for the complements. 

I kinda, sorta stumbled across a Second Model 1890, that caught my eye.  I called about it and likely would have gone for it anyway, but inquired about the bore.  The guy hadn’t looked at it, when he did probably thought that it was going to be sitting there for months and months.  My inclination was he was glad to have me still interested.  One thing lead to another and long story short is I ended up with it and a Winchester Model 61 and a Marlin 39a by the time all was said and done. 

The latter two didn’t need much, but the 1890 needed a barrel liner.  I didn’t go into great detail, but I did post about how I do barrel liners. 
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/i%E2%80%99m-feeling-pretty-good-about-this-model-61-model-90-model-39a-w-lyman-receiver-site.1317933/

I post about my projects mostly at RFC because I have ran out of my allotted server space other places for the photos.  Maybe I’ll post a real project here if/when I have something that is in need of a comprehensive overhaul.  That way if someone is interested in any aspect it should be covered.  Stock repairs -vs- fitting a 90-95% stock set would be the exception.  It would be either one or the other.  But both would need finishing.  Any real basket case is going to need everything.  I’ll keep my eyes open and see if something doesn’t turn up.  I’m always up for doing an 1890, 1906 or 62a.  A Marlin 1891 or any of its descendants would work.  A 44 Stevens or 1885 Winchester maybe, but I’d have to be talked into a Model 44 and even a thoroughly trashed 1885 costs real money.  Maybe I’ll stumble across a Model 6 Remington roller. 

I have a soft spot for old 22s and have seen your posts over on Rimfire Central... looks like you do nice work and I learned a lot.