New to reloading. Critique my testing

[Pete112288]

I got out this morning to test out my own reloads fro the first time.
The main intent of this load and rifle is Westside bear and some blacktail. The max ranges where I hunt are maybe 350. With it being more than likely for bear shots to be under 200 yards, deer under 150.
30-06, Remington once fired brass, Accurate 4350 powder, Nosler Partition 165 grain bullets.
Rifle is an early 90s (I believe) Browning a-bolt stainless stalker.
I had 40 rounds that I reloaded. All the same seating depth. They were in batches of 4 rounds per powder charge. Starting at 54 grains, half grain increments up to 58.5 grains. The listed max for this combo is 59.3 compressed. When I was loading I noticed that when I went from 58 grains to 58.5, was when I could tell it started to compress. The 58 grain rounds I could still hear powder when I shake it next to my ear. The 58.5 I couldnt hear a thing.
I started with a completely clean gun and fired one of each charge at their own target, and marked that first shot on each target. Then I fired the remaining 3 rounds of each charge at their targets. So I fired 3 or the 54 grain, then 3 of the 54.5, and so on. The first 4 groups were good as far as my first foray into reloading and for my shooting skills. All were under 1.5 inches. Some of them were right on top of that first shot I marked, others were up to 3 inches away. Then I had 3 groups eight in the middle of my testing that went much bigger. Up to 2 inch groups with 1 group that had a round completely miss the target. That mean it was off from the center of the group by at least 5 inches. I am assuming most of that was the shooter.
Then I had 2 of the best groups with 57.5 and 58 grains. The 57.5 was almost on top of the first marked round, the 58 was about 3 inches off the first marked round. Then at 58.5 where I noticed the powder getting slightly compressed while loading, the group went to about 2.2 inches.
My plan was to take the best grouping charge and use that to start tinkering with seating depth. Which would be the 57.5 grains with 1.02 group and being on par with my first marked shot.
How does my method sound? Is there any big holes in my process or logic of it? Advice?

[Pete112288]

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[birdshooter1189]

A couple things I'd pay attention to when testing ladder loads like that and I don't think you mentioned.  I'd want a 10+ power scope on the rifle that you trust to be solid. preferable 20-25x for accuracy testing.  (Swap it out for your favorite hunting scope later).  Also, make sure you have a DEAD SOLID shooting rest.  If you can't keep the rifle anchored and steady.....the groups will open up and you will get confusing and disappointing results.  A 1/2" accurate rifle with 1" of shooter shakes.....makes a 1.5" group.

Also, if I loaded 4 rounds of each load to test, I'd want to shoot a true 4 round group with each. I'd use some cheap/misc/factory ammo to shoot 2 or 3 shots after cleaning the rifle.  Then I'd go into 4 rounds each of the ladder test. 

Another factor is the barrel heating up.... I'm not sure if you specified, but that can also be a factor.  If time allows, you might consider letting the rifle sit 15 minutes to cool down between each group.

[KNOPHISH]

Assume your shooting 100yards? 1inch is pretty good, try it at 200.

[jrebel]

You didn't mention if you had any pressure signs on your brass.  If your new to reloading, pay very close attention to your brass, primer and bolt lift to see if you are hitting pressure.  Also....you really need a chronograph if you want to reload with any consistency, which will equate to accuracy. 

Then....(and there are lots of ways to reload), but I would not load 4 shots per powder charge when starting out. 

Start at your low powder charge and load one round.  Load one round per powder charge after that and load in .3 grain increments (I often will to .5 grain increments but .3 can be more accurate).  Starting from the lowest powder charge shoot each round allowing the barrel to cool in between shots.  Track your velocity and shots on target.  You will see a node where 3-5 shots all group really close to each other and velocity stabilizes / flattens.  Once you find that, go back and load 5 rounds to shoot for a group.  If your group is acceptable and you want to tinker.....start messing with seating depth. 

It has been my experience that when performing this type of ladder test, if your group is greater than 3-4 inches....you need to change powders.  Don't fight it and try to make it work.....just change powders. 

Don't forget to check your brass / primers and bolt lift....for pressure when shooting the ladder test. 

This is a very simplistic write up.....If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask. 

Some inherent problems with shooting 40 rounds in a range session are:
-  Barrel temp will effect POI.  It takes time at the range and most people are not patient enough to wait for their barrel to cool.
-  You an develop a flinch as your shoulder starts to take a beating. 

[Pete112288]

Thanks for the input so far.
I did not notice any signs of pressure issues that I could tell. Cases and primers look good and I did not notice anything different in the bolt lift when compared to regular factory ammo.
I do have to say, I would love to get a scope with a higher magnification for this kind of work up, then switch back to the hunting scope after I find a load. But cost is an issue.
Money being an issue probably is counter productive to the idea of getting into reloading for quality and choosing Nosler Partitions as bullets.
My hope was to be able to go through a box of bullets for testing powder charge for groups, pick a charge, 1 more box for testing seating depths, and then by the time I get a 3rd box, I would have a load I am happy with and I could load all that and coast for a while.
Then over time as I find components on sale and such I can tinker more over time.
Money is also why I don't have a chronograph yet.
I am certain that given my own human error in shooting accounts for a lot. I felt pretty solid and took my time shooting, but at 9 power on the scope, I could tell that my crosshairs still shook around over a good 1" size area, maybe a little more.
I need to put together sandbags, I have a shooting rest that is adjustable, but it is a cheaper one that leaves a bit to be desired and still allows for the slight shakyness.
I had read a bunch about doing this type of ladder testing. Read a bit from folks that said grouping turns out more reliable with a slightly warm barrel, then even some that said as long as I can comfortably hold my hand on the barrel then its cool enough.
Now thinking about it, they may have been talking more about competition shooting. For hunting I suppose it makes more sense to work with a cold or cooler barrel as most hunting shots will be cold barrel.

[ASHQUACK]

Greetings Pete, I have a spare lead sled taking up valuable storage space. I'd be willing to loan it to you for load workup. It's a very important piece of the puzzle. Shoot me a pm of you're interested.

[Dirty Dingus Dave]

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

Laddering your powder weights is a super effective way to do your load development.  I'd recommend to NEVER go beyond published data in your load manual or the Powder Manufacture's website.

I'd strongly suggest you get a Ballistic Chronograph, Garmen has a new one that looks pretty good, I've been using a LabRadar for 8 years after I moved up from my Caldwell.  You don't have to break the bank, maybe you can find one on one of these sites?

If you don't use a good, solid rest you are never going to get the results that are consistent and repeatable.

My 2 cents is to stay away from compressed loads until you have a few hundred rounds sent down range. 

(Free advice, and worth every penny...Don't drink or watch TV while reloading.  If I have to tell you not to smoke you won't be around long enough to worry about group sizes!!)

Finally, get and record everything in your DOPE book.  Don't overlook weather and temperature as this effects some powders.

Stay safe in small groups

[Caseknife]

How does the rifle shoot with factory ammo?  Maybe your 1" group is as good as it gets, which is fine for what you are looking to do.  You can save some money by using one of your targets for five different loads.  3x9 scope is fine for load work up at 100 yds especially if you can find a target that works with your reticle by being able to segment the center of the target rather than trying to hold the crosshairs on the center, bigger image for your eye to work with.  People seem to think that just because the bullet base is touching the powder column means that it is a compressed load.  Compressed load is when there is no air space between the kernels of powder.  The majority of the most accurate loads is when the case is full.  You are on the right track, but you definitely should try to gain the use of a chronograph, it helps immensely.

[jasnt]

Sounds like you’re doing just fine for your current goals.  As your skills develop you’ll probably want the chronograph and plenty of other things that will improve your experience but for now I would say keep doing what you’re doing and don’t worry about the chronograph.  Focus on shooting form and getting better at shooting and dial in your load.  The journey is half the adventure. 

The fastest way to poo poo all the fun out of learning to reload is telling the guy he actually only has half the tools needed to succeed and he needs to double his investment to get good results.  Yes all this other stuff will greatly improve the process but he doesn’t even know what he doesn’t know yet

FYI most rifles now days will out shoot most shooters.  Focus on the basics and most importantly enjoy the process.    Ask questions as needed

[Stein]

You are going to get a bunch of different advice, many roads lead to the same destination in reloading.

One thing that is mathematically true is that 3-4 round groups will not give you an accurate picture of group size for that particular load.  What it will tell you is the minimum group size you may achieve, but not the average or true group size.  Importantly, it does allow you to rule not good loads.  It doesn't tell me what loads are good, but it does tell me what loads are not good and you can cross those off the list.

If you do that a few times you get down to a reasonable number of loads you can do 10 shot groups with.  That will give you a pretty good idea of true group size.

I use a quality chrono the whole time and you can pair group sizes with velocity spreads to narrow it down and select a load that has decent results on both sides (plus or minus 0.1 or 0.2 grains for example).

From there, I would adjust seating depth, but if you get a group you are happy with you could just go with that.

If I want the absolute best shooting group, I also try different primers, different cases, different neck tension, different powder, different bullets, different seating depth and as many other variables you have the time and money to test.  From my experience, you get diminishing returns pretty quickly once you have the load, seating depth, case and primer chosen.

I enjoy shooting, reloading and spreadsheets so that's part of the enjoyment I have in shooting.  If I just wanted a good hunting load, I can get there quickly like I did with my kid's rifles.  They shoot under 1 MOA out to 300 yards and I save the fine tuning for the enjoyment of it with my one rifle.

I tinker with 30-06 a bunch, the 168 grain TSX are the most accurate with my rifle as are Lapua brass, Federal Match primers and 55.0 grains of H4350.

[yakimanoob]

First and foremost, welcome to the rabbit hole!

You asked for critique, so here it is: your basic method is not getting you anywhere.

I know it's a tough pill for some to swallow, but MOST of the "how to find a good load" methods you find on the internet (ladder, satterlee, seating depth, velocity nodes, etc etc) are complete nonsense -- they're just ways of chasing statistical ghosts. There is VERY little difference in accuracy between charges of the same powder under the same bullet, with groups widening if anything as you approach pressure limits.

Either your gun likes the bullet/brass/powder/primer combo or it doesn't. Just about every large-volume test project that's ever been done has shown that the supposed differences between group sizes (or velocity 'nodes') across different loads of the same powder disappear as more data is gathered. The only differences that withstand repeated testing are across different combinations of components.

[yakimanoob]

From your photos, it looks like you fired the first shot, then came back and fired 3 shots but only measured the latter 3, not including the first shot. Do I have that right?

So long as you didn't adjust your scope or change your point of aim, you should include all 4 shots in the group, not just the last 3. It looks to me, at least for the 57.5 and 58 groups, that you have much larger groups than indicated by your measurements.

[yakimanoob]

Some additional thoughts and questions, in no particular order:

• The classic 8" vitals zone at 350 yds works out to a circle 2.17 MOA in diameter, so your goal should be to find a load where almost all shots land within a 2.2" diameter circle around your point of aim at 100 yds. In other words, no further than about 1" from your point of aim. How exactly you define "almost all" is up to your judgment of the risks of wounding an animal.
• How well does this rifle shoot factory ammo? In my experience, factory ammo provides a decent baseline of expectation. You can almost always beat it with handloads, but it's not likely to find a handload that shoots 1/4 MOA from a rifle that prints 2–3 MOA with factory ammo.
• +1 for getting a chronograph if you want to shoot longer ranges, but if you're only going to shoot within the ranges you mentioned, you can get by with good-old-fashioned practice at the stated distances. If you want to shoot at targets 100yds away and animals 350yds away though, you're absolutely going to need a chronograph.