Free: Contests & Raffles.
Quote from: yakimanoob on April 18, 2025, 09:53:40 AMQuote from: NOCK NOCK on April 18, 2025, 06:43:13 AMIts hunting, not "getting." Some of us LOVE to hunt, there is no shame in doing that no matter how much it costs, or how crappy the opportunities are.With a little time and effort one can notch tags every year in this state, but if you dont.....well you still get to enjoy your passion of hunting I think this point is missing in a lot of the above discussion. Criticize the state if you want, but they're managing for opportunity - the opportunity to enjoy the elk woods with a tag in your pocket. It's ironic to criticize them for "just wanting to sell tags." OF COURSE that's what they want. That's literally the definition of managing for opportunity. Using the Yakima herd as an example: stable populations and steadily increasing harvests look to me like the system is working. Keep in mind that the "over objective" total population is largely related to the Rattlesnake subherd that's way above objective but on mostly federal and private land outside the purview of WDFW. I want to hunt them too, but if you think the DoE is ever going to allow the public to hunt the Hanford site, you're kidding yourself. MAYBE they'd let some master hunters or special tag holders into the Waluke or Rattlesnake units of the National Monument, but I'd be shocked to see that happen. Basically the entire range of the Rattlesnake subherd is already "any elk" during general rifle, so there's not a lot more the state can do.These tables show the decline in bull numbers and even though they have rebounded they still have a ways to go to get back to where they were when we had bull tags we all want to see. Given the fires since the decline I suspect the herd numbers should begin to grow rapidly.
Quote from: NOCK NOCK on April 18, 2025, 06:43:13 AMIts hunting, not "getting." Some of us LOVE to hunt, there is no shame in doing that no matter how much it costs, or how crappy the opportunities are.With a little time and effort one can notch tags every year in this state, but if you dont.....well you still get to enjoy your passion of hunting I think this point is missing in a lot of the above discussion. Criticize the state if you want, but they're managing for opportunity - the opportunity to enjoy the elk woods with a tag in your pocket. It's ironic to criticize them for "just wanting to sell tags." OF COURSE that's what they want. That's literally the definition of managing for opportunity. Using the Yakima herd as an example: stable populations and steadily increasing harvests look to me like the system is working. Keep in mind that the "over objective" total population is largely related to the Rattlesnake subherd that's way above objective but on mostly federal and private land outside the purview of WDFW. I want to hunt them too, but if you think the DoE is ever going to allow the public to hunt the Hanford site, you're kidding yourself. MAYBE they'd let some master hunters or special tag holders into the Waluke or Rattlesnake units of the National Monument, but I'd be shocked to see that happen. Basically the entire range of the Rattlesnake subherd is already "any elk" during general rifle, so there's not a lot more the state can do.
Its hunting, not "getting." Some of us LOVE to hunt, there is no shame in doing that no matter how much it costs, or how crappy the opportunities are.With a little time and effort one can notch tags every year in this state, but if you dont.....well you still get to enjoy your passion of hunting
Quote from: CarbonHunter on April 18, 2025, 06:04:51 PMQuote from: yakimanoob on April 18, 2025, 09:53:40 AMQuote from: NOCK NOCK on April 18, 2025, 06:43:13 AMIts hunting, not "getting." Some of us LOVE to hunt, there is no shame in doing that no matter how much it costs, or how crappy the opportunities are.With a little time and effort one can notch tags every year in this state, but if you dont.....well you still get to enjoy your passion of hunting I think this point is missing in a lot of the above discussion. Criticize the state if you want, but they're managing for opportunity - the opportunity to enjoy the elk woods with a tag in your pocket. It's ironic to criticize them for "just wanting to sell tags." OF COURSE that's what they want. That's literally the definition of managing for opportunity. Using the Yakima herd as an example: stable populations and steadily increasing harvests look to me like the system is working. Keep in mind that the "over objective" total population is largely related to the Rattlesnake subherd that's way above objective but on mostly federal and private land outside the purview of WDFW. I want to hunt them too, but if you think the DoE is ever going to allow the public to hunt the Hanford site, you're kidding yourself. MAYBE they'd let some master hunters or special tag holders into the Waluke or Rattlesnake units of the National Monument, but I'd be shocked to see that happen. Basically the entire range of the Rattlesnake subherd is already "any elk" during general rifle, so there's not a lot more the state can do.These tables show the decline in bull numbers and even though they have rebounded they still have a ways to go to get back to where they were when we had bull tags we all want to see. Given the fires since the decline I suspect the herd numbers should begin to grow rapidly.there’s nothing wrong with the numbers. Numbers are good. Just less opportunity
Quote from: teanawayslayer on April 19, 2025, 06:14:03 PMQuote from: CarbonHunter on April 18, 2025, 06:04:51 PMQuote from: yakimanoob on April 18, 2025, 09:53:40 AMQuote from: NOCK NOCK on April 18, 2025, 06:43:13 AMIts hunting, not "getting." Some of us LOVE to hunt, there is no shame in doing that no matter how much it costs, or how crappy the opportunities are.With a little time and effort one can notch tags every year in this state, but if you dont.....well you still get to enjoy your passion of hunting I think this point is missing in a lot of the above discussion. Criticize the state if you want, but they're managing for opportunity - the opportunity to enjoy the elk woods with a tag in your pocket. It's ironic to criticize them for "just wanting to sell tags." OF COURSE that's what they want. That's literally the definition of managing for opportunity. Using the Yakima herd as an example: stable populations and steadily increasing harvests look to me like the system is working. Keep in mind that the "over objective" total population is largely related to the Rattlesnake subherd that's way above objective but on mostly federal and private land outside the purview of WDFW. I want to hunt them too, but if you think the DoE is ever going to allow the public to hunt the Hanford site, you're kidding yourself. MAYBE they'd let some master hunters or special tag holders into the Waluke or Rattlesnake units of the National Monument, but I'd be shocked to see that happen. Basically the entire range of the Rattlesnake subherd is already "any elk" during general rifle, so there's not a lot more the state can do.These tables show the decline in bull numbers and even though they have rebounded they still have a ways to go to get back to where they were when we had bull tags we all want to see. Given the fires since the decline I suspect the herd numbers should begin to grow rapidly.there’s nothing wrong with the numbers. Numbers are good. Just less opportunity Do you have another chart that contradicts the charts that were shared? Or do you not understand how to read the charts?Calf survival is low. Given the mild winters that would point to predators. The bull to cow ratio dropped as low as 7:100 cows in 2018 and has barely hit a mark of 13:100 cows. That’s not mature bull but all bulls in the herd. Those are not good numbers for herd health and is an indicator that the state still has not gotten the poaching or tribal hunting issues under control. It clearly isn’t because of the state issuing too many tags.
Quote from: CarbonHunter on April 19, 2025, 06:31:00 PMQuote from: teanawayslayer on April 19, 2025, 06:14:03 PMQuote from: CarbonHunter on April 18, 2025, 06:04:51 PMQuote from: yakimanoob on April 18, 2025, 09:53:40 AMQuote from: NOCK NOCK on April 18, 2025, 06:43:13 AMIts hunting, not "getting." Some of us LOVE to hunt, there is no shame in doing that no matter how much it costs, or how crappy the opportunities are.With a little time and effort one can notch tags every year in this state, but if you dont.....well you still get to enjoy your passion of hunting I think this point is missing in a lot of the above discussion. Criticize the state if you want, but they're managing for opportunity - the opportunity to enjoy the elk woods with a tag in your pocket. It's ironic to criticize them for "just wanting to sell tags." OF COURSE that's what they want. That's literally the definition of managing for opportunity. Using the Yakima herd as an example: stable populations and steadily increasing harvests look to me like the system is working. Keep in mind that the "over objective" total population is largely related to the Rattlesnake subherd that's way above objective but on mostly federal and private land outside the purview of WDFW. I want to hunt them too, but if you think the DoE is ever going to allow the public to hunt the Hanford site, you're kidding yourself. MAYBE they'd let some master hunters or special tag holders into the Waluke or Rattlesnake units of the National Monument, but I'd be shocked to see that happen. Basically the entire range of the Rattlesnake subherd is already "any elk" during general rifle, so there's not a lot more the state can do.These tables show the decline in bull numbers and even though they have rebounded they still have a ways to go to get back to where they were when we had bull tags we all want to see. Given the fires since the decline I suspect the herd numbers should begin to grow rapidly.there’s nothing wrong with the numbers. Numbers are good. Just less opportunity Do you have another chart that contradicts the charts that were shared? Or do you not understand how to read the charts?Calf survival is low. Given the mild winters that would point to predators. The bull to cow ratio dropped as low as 7:100 cows in 2018 and has barely hit a mark of 13:100 cows. That’s not mature bull but all bulls in the herd. Those are not good numbers for herd health and is an indicator that the state still has not gotten the poaching or tribal hunting issues under control. It clearly isn’t because of the state issuing too many tags.do you know how they do there count. Hey guys it’s time to do a count. Let’s head to the feed lot. There numbers are no where close to correct. But If you believe what they have on paper that’s great.
CH, what gives you the idea that coastal elk herds are "basically impossible to count"? They do multiple ariel surveys in 681, 506, 673 and also a large concentration in 550, 556, 524 and the other areas around Mt. St. Helens. What I don't agree with is there mismanagement of the predators in these areas, and how large of an impact they're having on the deer and elk populations.
You can call it a clown show, but it's just as naive to assume that just because there is some 'data' from an agency it is automatically good science...or an accurate reflection of reality.Very rarely is anything black and white in this world. You're both right...and wrong.
They state in the GSTR that the Rattlesnake subherd is not included in Yakima herd population estimates.
I've made an excel sheet for quality elk by hunt choice, available tags, year-to-year percentage increase/decrease from 2014 to present year. I'm not an excel wiz, so this took awhile to build. Here's an interesting one for Quality elk choice Eastern Archery Peaches Ridge...2014/134 tags2015/126 tags2016/134 tags2017/104 tags2018/58 tags2019/10 tags2020/10 tags2021/9 tags2022/8 tags2023/8 tags2024/6 tags2025/6 tagsOverall available quality tags by year:2014/1070 tags2015/1100 tags2016/1146 tags2017/1123 tags2018/860 tags2019/558 tags2020/464 tags2021/539 tags2022/469 tags2023/457 tags2024/460 tags2025/366 tags