"Any Deer" GMU's - Proof of Sex?

[addicted1]

Several times an old guy in our camp would get a doe tag. He would hang it two or three days depending on weather. Before he started home he would bone the entire deer out.
Put it in a cooler for transport.

A game agent came by and started to give him a hard time about it. The old who is very polite told him that the law says .

Proof of sex until ready for consumption.

Nothing says I cannot cut ,wrap, or eat right here in camp.

The old guy had the proof of sex but not attached.

The Game agent thought about it and left.

I’ve been in this situation, but with a buck. Left evidence on for transport back to camp, then boned out, bag and stored in cooler. Long story short, I leave the evidence attached until I am home now. Not worth the hassle.

[luvmystang67]

This is an interesting question.  I have some logic questions now on this.

1) Are you required to bring out the head and/or antlers?  I don't see anywhere that this is actually required.
2) Hunts are not buck or doe hunts, they're antlered and antlerless.  What does the sex of the animal have to do with that, especially in this modern age.  We've seen many antlered does show up on these threads.
3) As far as I can see, you could legally shoot an antlered 3 point doe, leave the antlers, and show back up to camp with an udder on the largest piece of meant and violated ZERO laws.
4) Evidence of sex proves nothing about adhering with the regulation.  In any deer/elk zones, sex shows nothing.  In antlered only areas it shows nothing... even a spike with sub-legal antlers would have the right gender, and you've still broken the law in that case.  This is an outdated rule that makes zero logical sense.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

This is an outdated rule that makes zero logical sense.

Especially in this day and age when genetic testing is available.

[Dark2Dark]

It looks like you are in Idaho, so that might be why there is some confusion.

In Washington, you can bring the head out to show antlered/antlerless OR you can bring attached proof of sex. It's right in the regs.

But if you are hunting in an area with an antler restriction, then you must bring the head out. And that would apply to units that are "Any Buck" or "Any Bull" (and again, Washington does have these hunts, they aren't described as "Antlered" unless you break it down another step in the definitions of "Any Buck."

If you shot a doe with 3 pts in an any deer unit you could bring just the udder out on the meat and be legal. If you shot it in an antlerless unit, you would be in violation of laws. If you shot it in "Any Buck" unit, you are required to bring the head or skull cap out but would not be required to have other proof of sex attached.

Essentially: If you are in a unit where you can only shoot an antlered animal or an animal with X amount of points, you must bring out the antlers attached to the head or skull cap.
 
If it's an antlerless tag or an any animal tag, then attached proof of sex will do.

It all seems very logical to me. The only part that is not super logical is the need for proof of sex in an any deer GMU (which is what the original question pertains to). But it still makes more sense to me to have it required there than to have a bunch of miscellaneous exceptions that would make the rules that much harder to remember. A little easier to just know in Washington you need to have some kind of proof of sex on the animal.


Idaho's regs are probably a little less logical for me when it comes to this stuff.

Here are the Washington regs pertaining to it:

3. Evidence of Animal's Sex (WAC 220-413-090):
It is illegal to possess or transport big game animals unless evidence of the animal's sex is left naturally attached to the carcass
until the carcass is processed or stored for consumption. Evidence
of sex means:
• Male - head with antlers or horns attached or penis or testes any
of which must be naturally attached to at least one quarter of the
carcass or to the largest portion of meat.
• Female - the head or udder must be naturally attached to at least
one quarter of the carcass or to the largest portion of meat.

Big game taken in antler or horn restriction areas: The head or skull
plate, with both horns or both antlers naturally attached, must accompany the carcass while in transit or in possession.

This is an interesting question.  I have some logic questions now on this.

1) Are you required to bring out the head and/or antlers?  I don't see anywhere that this is actually required.
2) Hunts are not buck or doe hunts, they're antlered and antlerless.  What does the sex of the animal have to do with that, especially in this modern age.  We've seen many antlered does show up on these threads.
3) As far as I can see, you could legally shoot an antlered 3 point doe, leave the antlers, and show back up to camp with an udder on the largest piece of meant and violated ZERO laws.
4) Evidence of sex proves nothing about adhering with the regulation.  In any deer/elk zones, sex shows nothing.  In antlered only areas it shows nothing... even a spike with sub-legal antlers would have the right gender, and you've still broken the law in that case.  This is an outdated rule that makes zero logical sense.

[luvmystang67]

It looks like you are in Idaho, so that might be why there is some confusion.

In Washington, you can bring the head out to show antlered/antlerless OR you can bring attached proof of sex. It's right in the regs.

But if you are hunting in an area with an antler restriction, then you must bring the head out. And that would apply to units that are "Any Buck" or "Any Bull" (and again, Washington does have these hunts, they aren't described as "Antlered" unless you break it down another step in the definitions of "Any Buck."

If you shot a doe with 3 pts in an any deer unit you could bring just the udder out on the meat and be legal. If you shot it in an antlerless unit, you would be in violation of laws. If you shot it in "Any Buck" unit, you are required to bring the head or skull cap out but would not be required to have other proof of sex attached.

Essentially: If you are in a unit where you can only shoot an antlered animal or an animal with X amount of points, you must bring out the antlers attached to the head or skull cap.
 
If it's an antlerless tag or an any animal tag, then attached proof of sex will do.

It all seems very logical to me. The only part that is not super logical is the need for proof of sex in an any deer GMU (which is what the original question pertains to). But it still makes more sense to me to have it required there than to have a bunch of miscellaneous exceptions that would make the rules that much harder to remember. A little easier to just know in Washington you need to have some kind of proof of sex on the animal.


Idaho's regs are probably a little less logical for me when it comes to this stuff.

Here are the Washington regs pertaining to it:

3. Evidence of Animal's Sex (WAC 220-413-090):
It is illegal to possess or transport big game animals unless evidence of the animal's sex is left naturally attached to the carcass
until the carcass is processed or stored for consumption. Evidence
of sex means:
• Male - head with antlers or horns attached or penis or testes any
of which must be naturally attached to at least one quarter of the
carcass or to the largest portion of meat.
• Female - the head or udder must be naturally attached to at least
one quarter of the carcass or to the largest portion of meat.

Big game taken in antler or horn restriction areas: The head or skull
plate, with both horns or both antlers naturally attached, must accompany the carcass while in transit or in possession.

This is an interesting question.  I have some logic questions now on this.

1) Are you required to bring out the head and/or antlers?  I don't see anywhere that this is actually required.
2) Hunts are not buck or doe hunts, they're antlered and antlerless.  What does the sex of the animal have to do with that, especially in this modern age.  We've seen many antlered does show up on these threads.
3) As far as I can see, you could legally shoot an antlered 3 point doe, leave the antlers, and show back up to camp with an udder on the largest piece of meant and violated ZERO laws.
4) Evidence of sex proves nothing about adhering with the regulation.  In any deer/elk zones, sex shows nothing.  In antlered only areas it shows nothing... even a spike with sub-legal antlers would have the right gender, and you've still broken the law in that case.  This is an outdated rule that makes zero logical sense.

Touche, I stand corrected.  Appreciate the research.

Either way, the sex of the animal IMO is completely irrelevant if the rules are written based on antlers.  Antlerled, Antlerless, 3pt Minimum... these are all rules based on whether or not the animal has protruding things from its head, and doesn't necessarily have perfect correlation with whats between their legs.  Even when it says "Any Buck", if you read the definition you see it refers to the antlers...

I guess in my own rebuttal, for an antlerless season, you should have to bring out the skull cap, and nobody wants to go to that effort, so having an udder with a 99% correlation with being antlerless probably checks out.

Antlerless: Deer, elk, or cow moose without antlers; doe and fawn deer, cow and calf elk, and calf
moose are considered antlerless.

Any Buck/Bull: Only deer/elk/moose with visible
antlers may be taken (fawns/calves illegal). Visible antler is a horn-like growth projecting above
the hairline.

[Ghost Hunter]

It looks like you are in Idaho, so that might be why there is some confusion.

In Washington, you can bring the head out to show antlered/antlerless OR you can bring attached proof of sex. It's right in the regs.

But if you are hunting in an area with an antler restriction, then you must bring the head out. And that would apply to units that are "Any Buck" or "Any Bull" (and again, Washington does have these hunts, they aren't described as "Antlered" unless you break it down another step in the definitions of "Any Buck."

If you shot a doe with 3 pts in an any deer unit you could bring just the udder out on the meat and be legal. If you shot it in an antlerless unit, you would be in violation of laws. If you shot it in "Any Buck" unit, you are required to bring the head or skull cap out but would not be required to have other proof of sex attached.

Essentially: If you are in a unit where you can only shoot an antlered animal or an animal with X amount of points, you must bring out the antlers attached to the head or skull cap.
 
If it's an antlerless tag or an any animal tag, then attached proof of sex will do.

It all seems very logical to me. The only part that is not super logical is the need for proof of sex in an any deer GMU (which is what the original question pertains to). But it still makes more sense to me to have it required there than to have a bunch of miscellaneous exceptions that would make the rules that much harder to remember. A little easier to just know in Washington you need to have some kind of proof of sex on the animal.


Idaho's regs are probably a little less logical for me when it comes to this stuff.

Here are the Washington regs pertaining to it:

3. Evidence of Animal's Sex (WAC 220-413-090):
It is illegal to possess or transport big game animals unless evidence of the animal's sex is left naturally attached to the carcass
until the carcass is processed or stored for consumption. Evidence
of sex means:
• Male - head with antlers or horns attached or penis or testes any
of which must be naturally attached to at least one quarter of the
carcass or to the largest portion of meat.
• Female - the head or udder must be naturally attached to at least
one quarter of the carcass or to the largest portion of meat.

Big game taken in antler or horn restriction areas: The head or skull
plate, with both horns or both antlers naturally attached, must accompany the carcass while in transit or in possession.

This is an interesting question.  I have some logic questions now on this.

1) Are you required to bring out the head and/or antlers?  I don't see anywhere that this is actually required.
2) Hunts are not buck or doe hunts, they're antlered and antlerless.  What does the sex of the animal have to do with that, especially in this modern age.  We've seen many antlered does show up on these threads.
3) As far as I can see, you could legally shoot an antlered 3 point doe, leave the antlers, and show back up to camp with an udder on the largest piece of meant and violated ZERO laws.
4) Evidence of sex proves nothing about adhering with the regulation.  In any deer/elk zones, sex shows nothing.  In antlered only areas it shows nothing... even a spike with sub-legal antlers would have the right gender, and you've still broken the law in that case.  This is an outdated rule that makes zero logical sense.

Boned out, chunked up and bag it.  Processed in my book, for all the GMU's that require that for CWD.

[Dark2Dark]

Yes- if you dig deeper, "buck" comes down to having visible antlers.

IF you could somehow identity a doe with antlers, shooting her in an antlerless hunt and only retaining the udder as proof of sex would be one way to appear legal... but if you're going to go to all that trouble to break the law and cover it up, seems like you would just shoot a doe and keep her head with the meat from a buck, or something. The odds of finding a doe with antlers aren't that great. The odds of finding her in an antlerless hunt and ID'ing her and being the sort that would shoot her because she has udders seem pretty long.   

Touche, I stand corrected.  Appreciate the research.

Either way, the sex of the animal IMO is completely irrelevant if the rules are written based on antlers.  Antlerled, Antlerless, 3pt Minimum... these are all rules based on whether or not the animal has protruding things from its head, and doesn't necessarily have perfect correlation with whats between their legs.  Even when it says "Any Buck", if you read the definition you see it refers to the antlers...

I guess in my own rebuttal, for an antlerless season, you should have to bring out the skull cap, and nobody wants to go to that effort, so having an udder with a 99% correlation with being antlerless probably checks out.

Antlerless: Deer, elk, or cow moose without antlers; doe and fawn deer, cow and calf elk, and calf
moose are considered antlerless.

Any Buck/Bull: Only deer/elk/moose with visible
antlers may be taken (fawns/calves illegal). Visible antler is a horn-like growth projecting above
the hairline.

[10thmountainarcher]

It looks like you are in Idaho, so that might be why there is some confusion.

In Washington, you can bring the head out to show antlered/antlerless OR you can bring attached proof of sex. It's right in the regs.

But if you are hunting in an area with an antler restriction, then you must bring the head out. And that would apply to units that are "Any Buck" or "Any Bull" (and again, Washington does have these hunts, they aren't described as "Antlered" unless you break it down another step in the definitions of "Any Buck."

If you shot a doe with 3 pts in an any deer unit you could bring just the udder out on the meat and be legal. If you shot it in an antlerless unit, you would be in violation of laws. If you shot it in "Any Buck" unit, you are required to bring the head or skull cap out but would not be required to have other proof of sex attached.

Essentially: If you are in a unit where you can only shoot an antlered animal or an animal with X amount of points, you must bring out the antlers attached to the head or skull cap.
 
If it's an antlerless tag or an any animal tag, then attached proof of sex will do.

It all seems very logical to me. The only part that is not super logical is the need for proof of sex in an any deer GMU (which is what the original question pertains to). But it still makes more sense to me to have it required there than to have a bunch of miscellaneous exceptions that would make the rules that much harder to remember. A little easier to just know in Washington you need to have some kind of proof of sex on the animal.


Idaho's regs are probably a little less logical for me when it comes to this stuff.

Here are the Washington regs pertaining to it:

3. Evidence of Animal's Sex (WAC 220-413-090):
It is illegal to possess or transport big game animals unless evidence of the animal's sex is left naturally attached to the carcass
until the carcass is processed or stored for consumption. Evidence
of sex means:
• Male - head with antlers or horns attached or penis or testes any
of which must be naturally attached to at least one quarter of the
carcass or to the largest portion of meat.
• Female - the head or udder must be naturally attached to at least
one quarter of the carcass or to the largest portion of meat.

Big game taken in antler or horn restriction areas: The head or skull
plate, with both horns or both antlers naturally attached, must accompany the carcass while in transit or in possession.

This is an interesting question.  I have some logic questions now on this.

1) Are you required to bring out the head and/or antlers?  I don't see anywhere that this is actually required.
2) Hunts are not buck or doe hunts, they're antlered and antlerless.  What does the sex of the animal have to do with that, especially in this modern age.  We've seen many antlered does show up on these threads.
3) As far as I can see, you could legally shoot an antlered 3 point doe, leave the antlers, and show back up to camp with an udder on the largest piece of meant and violated ZERO laws.
4) Evidence of sex proves nothing about adhering with the regulation.  In any deer/elk zones, sex shows nothing.  In antlered only areas it shows nothing... even a spike with sub-legal antlers would have the right gender, and you've still broken the law in that case.  This is an outdated rule that makes zero logical sense.

I believe this one would be good for Bigtex to chime in on. If you shoot a buck and quarter him up to pack out, the way I read it is the proof of sex has to be attached to the carcass. I may be mistaken, but the head is not considered part of the carcass, so leaving the antlers attached to the head if separated from the carcass may not suffice. Male - head with antlers or horns attached or penis or testes any
of which must be naturally attached to at least one quarter of the
carcass or to the largest portion of meat. I read this as saying any of those examples given must remain attached to a quarter and a head with antlers by itself doesn’t satisfy the requirements. The “or” in the sentence and then the “any of which” means it’s not only referring to the penis or testes, it’s saying one of those three has to remain attached to be in compliance.

I’ve never fully grasped the point of this, as I doubt a poacher will just be carrying around a fresh head with antlers to poach does and carry them out.