Colockum Elk Discussion

[Yak-NDN]

http://sportsyakima.com/2009/04/illegal-shed-hunter-take-heed-cameras-dont-lie/
 This is the most recent on running elk. Also they shut down the winter range in the Kittitas because of the pressure issues. I am not hear to point fingers at who is to blame because this is a mutual problem but some of you think it a because of the Indians. The main reason most of you are against Tribal hunting is because you are just jealous. But there are some that have valid complaints and to tell you the Truth I have some issues with what some of the tribal members are doing. And for the regulations it is on the web if you chose to read it.

[colockumelk]

BTW Yak I totally agree with the shed hunting issue.  There's a reason why they set the season as May 1.  Because if you chase the elk around during the last quarter of pregnancy alot of still births happen.  Which is bad for all of us. 

As for why most are against tribal hunting I will disagree with you on the jealousy.  Me personally I am far more concerned with proper game management and equal opportunity.  The past is the past.  And discrimination is disrcrimination which is wrong no matter what.  And the game laws is very discriminatory to Non-Tribal members.  I like to look to the future not to the past.  If you dwell on the past you are doomed to stay there.  Again there is no such thing as "reverse discrimination" there is just plain and simple discrimination.

BTW I also know that you are against alot of what happens.  On this site you are put in a tough position. 

[colockumelk]

Oh also Yak thought you might find this very interesting.  This is from an aquantence I know of.  He sent me this letter back in February or March.  I posted this on another site.  It is a very Non-Partisan point of view.  Very well put.  He is a Tribal member in Oregon.

http://www.washingtonsportsmen.com/?q=node/78

[YellowDog]

It is interesting that you post an article that can't identify the offenders (could be white men or it could be natives) as some evidence that white men are chasing elk all over the feeding station for their sheds and causing them to die.  There is no mention in the article of any evidence of dead elk but rather the statement that it could happen if an elk in poor condition is pushed to hard.  That's not to say that there is any excuse for entering the closed area during the closure but the fact is that the dead elk hanging in the camps and the antlers entered in the sportsman's show are pretty compelling evidence that some natives don't give a *censored* about the herds and are killing multiple bulls every year without regard for the resource.  Shed hunting might push an animal or two over the threshhold and it might die.  It would be hard to say definatively what killed an elk in that situation.  A native shooting it with his high power rifle results in certain death and in many cases further harm to the elk population.  

It seems you are playing devils advocate a little bit and I understand that is sometimes helpful to get a point accross.  In this instance though, if you wanted to actually help address the problems by both the natives and the poachers you would come to the table with some support and assistance in finding common ground and trying to get the tribe to implement some changes to preserve the resource.  I would bet that most of the white hunters here hate poaching by anyone and everyone, regardless of their race.  There are laws that can be enforced for violators if they are caught.  With tribal hunting, there is nothing we or law enforcement can do and it appears as if the tribe is unwilling to do their part to help preserve the resource.  With the bull to cow ratio as far out of whack as it is in the colocum it would seem it would be easier to find a nice fat cow for ceremonial purposes yet big bull after big bull bites the dust under the guise of tradition and ceremony when it really comes down to collecting big bull elk racks.  In the end, like many of the others here, I am glad you and the other native hunters are on the site to share you views.  You say you don't agree with some of what goes on so it would be much appreciated if you would help the cause where there is common ground.  

[colockumelk]

 I would bet that most of the white hunters here hate poaching by anyone and everyone, regardless of their race.  There are laws that can be enforced for violators if they are caught.  With tribal hunting, there is nothing we or law enforcement can do and it appears as if the tribe is unwilling to do their part to help preserve the resource.  With the bull to cow ratio as far out of whack as it is in the colocum it would seem it would be easier to find a nice fat cow for ceremonial purposes yet big bull after big bull bites the dust under the guise of tradition and ceremony when it really comes down to collecting big bull elk racks.  In the end, like many of the others here, I am glad you and the other native hunters are on the site to share you views.  You say you don't agree with some of what goes on so it would be much appreciated if you would help the cause where there is common ground.  

 

[colockumelk]

YAK you need to be a little more understanding of our situation instead of being so defensive.  You want more regulation on us.  How much more regulated can it get.  It's a 9 day true spike only season during an undesirable time period for harvests.  What more can they give up?  Where you're people on the other hand can hunt for branch bulls 365 days a year.  Who has it better here?  We all need to give and take.  I already know that spike recruitment is a major problem but when you have Whitefoot and others each killing 6 branch bulls a year in a population that is already depleted that doesn't help either.  We have regulations. Do you?   

Also the WDFW has put tougher restrictions on us to improve the spike recruitment problem and the overall health of the herd.  In the last 5 years they have taken the muzzle loader season away, they have made it spike only for archers and now they have made it True Spike only.  All in trying to improve wildlife managment.  Now my question for you and I doubt you'll actually answer this question is what has the Yakama's done to enhance the elk herd in the Colockum?

So we've given up stuff for the advancement of wildlife managment.  We're sick of giving and giving while all you do is take.  Maybe it's time for you guys to give up or sacrifice something to actually do something positive for the elk herd. 

YAK were still waiting for an answer to the questions I asked. 

[Up a Creek]

Yak - if the tribes would improve regulations and work with the game department to adopt reasonable harvest numbers that would improve hunting for all, threads like this would disappear. Jealousy has nothing to do with it, we just want proper game management.

[alanger]

Yak - if the tribes would improve regulations and work with the game department to adopt reasonable harvest numbers that would improve hunting for all, threads like this would disappear. Jealousy has nothing to do with it, we just want proper game management.

Thank you......

[Yak-NDN]

Another question that keeps surfacing is about what do the Tribes do to manage game. An internet search will produce many  Tribal Game and Habitat Management Plans and Programs.

For example: yakama tribe hunting management   returned this:

http://www.ynwildlife.org/tribalmembers.php

And for the regulations it is on the web if you chose to read it.

  Colockum  you  were the next post after this was put up I don't know what else to do for you. And for the last several posts I love to argue but they were to well put and not out of line I would just be an A-hole to argue with you. I think everyone understud your concerns without bashing the poor dumb Indian.