Vintage Monster Blacktail

[Stlheader]

I was at my buddy's cabin in SW WA this winter and found this rack hanging in the living room. The story I got was that It was shot by his grandfather-in-law in Lewis county back in the 50's. I was thinking it looks more like a mulie to me but either way it is a hawg. What do you guys think? Any guesses on the score?

[Ridgerunner]

 

Either way, I suppose it could have been a blacktail, seems more like a muley though.  Either way, incredible deer

[PolarBear]

Eastern Lewis county, could be a benchleg.  I would tend to believe that it is a muley though.

[Bighorse]

Those antler looked colored to me.  Thats really shiny brown.
Great rack! 

[Stlheader]

yeah they appear to have some type of stain/lacquer type finish on them, which is really a shame. The base plate is also painted white. I think its how many antlers were finished back in the day.

[TeacherMan]

Thats a shooter!!!

[BLKBEARKLR]

Looks more mulie, could be a benchleg...

[littlebuf]

here is the record black tail taken in 1954 i believe in lewis county. so ya it could be black tail and i would have it scored, that thing could rank pretty good in the state books

[littlebuf]

oops, clark county. says it right on the mount

[bobcat]

Well, as far as I know the #1 blacktail came from Lewis County in 1953. It was killed in the Lincoln Creek area, which is western Lewis County, just a few miles west of Centralia. What is that Clark County buck? Looks like it says "pending world record."     I'm going to have to do some research on that. Does it say the score is 183 5/8?    

[littlebuf]

i thought lewis county also, i guess i was right about the original record buck. this one popped up on a search and i thought it was the same one

[G.R.K]

There must be some issues with that buck,because it's never made it into B/C. Only the Wa state record book.

[bullchaser]

All of Lewis Co would be a columbia Blaktail as far as the book is concerened. But people often get their stories crossed (was it yakima or lewis co? It was a long time ago) If that truly is a blackie dude get it scored BC Blacktails are as rare as it comes.

[KimberRich]

Looks more mulie, could be a benchleg...

I agree

[Legacy]

The first pic of the Blacktail with the painted/stained horns is obviously a non-typical and the current world record non-typical came out of Oregon (213 7/8).

The second pic of the Blacktail with the Cowlitz county connection and which says "pending world record" is obviously a typical and the current world record did come out of Lewis County, Washington (182 2/8).

[Pete112288]

I just read an article literally about 10 minutes ago. From the archive of the Columbian news paper. One of the WDFW guys they interviewed claimed that there was a game farm in eastern Lewis Co. that took in orphaned deer back in the late 30s & early 40s. The paperwork they have said they had quite a few orphaned mule deer from the east side. But the suspicion is that they didnt take them to the east side to release them when they matured, but that they were released. That could possibly be one of those exact deer?  or a decendant. No matter what it "officially" was or where it was shot, its a freaking pig of a buck based on that rack.

[Karl Blanchard]

Blacktail and mule deer have the same antler configurations so without a cape how can one tell if it's mule deer or blacktail?  Is it just because it is big?

[Bullkllr]

i thought lewis county also, i guess i was right about the original record buck. this one popped up on a search and i thought it was the same one

Here's that one

[Boss .300 winmag]

This one cam out of Lewis county as well, Blue lake area.

I rather have this stud than the WR.

[fishnfur]

Blacktail and mule deer have the same antler configurations so without a cape how can one tell if it's mule deer or blacktail?  Is it just because it is big?

That confuses me.  What is the difference in capes between the two?  The only difference in animals that I am aware of, other than antler size, is the shape and coloration of the tail. 

[fishnfur]

Blacktail and mule deer have the same antler configurations so without a cape how can one tell if it's mule deer or blacktail?  Is it just because it is big?

That confuses me.  What is the difference in capes between the two?  The only difference in animals that I am aware of, other than antler/body size is the shape and coloration of the tail.

Edit - .......and of course genetic.  http://www.boone-crockett.org/community/pdf/FC_Full2005_MuleDeerSubspecies.pdf - page 3, middle column, half-way down.

[JDHasty]

I thought the world record BT was taken by Galvin in Lewis Co. 

[fishnfur]

Hmmmm.......

Scans attached from one of the books.  I suggest you get your own copies (if you don't already have them)  Cover provided for legal and promotional purposes.

[fishnfur]

It seems that massive BT bucks can show up just about anywhere, given the opportunity to live long enough to achieve their maximum potential. 

From a previous post:  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,204327.msg2715979.html#msg2715979 

[JDHasty]

Hmmmm.......

Scans attached from one of the books.  I suggest you get your own copies (if you don't already have them)  Cover provided for legal and promotional purposes.

I looked all over for a copy of that book a while back and couldn't find one.  It was easy to order a couple copies today. 

[Karl Blanchard]

Blacktail and mule deer have the same antler configurations so without a cape how can one tell if it's mule deer or blacktail?  Is it just because it is big?

That confuses me.  What is the difference in capes between the two?  The only difference in animals that I am aware of, other than antler size, is the shape and coloration of the tail.

  I must have typed it wrong or you misunderstood me. The point I was trying to make is there a 0 way to tell whether that is a mule deer or Blacktail just by looking at a set of capped antlers.   Since both animals have the same antler configurations one would need some form of other identification to judge species.

[NWCoho]

Another old vintage Blacktail with lots of dust.  Killed on the Everett legion golf course in 1942.

[Boss .300 winmag]

Another old vintage Blacktail with lots of dust.  Killed on the Everett legion golf course in 1942.

That's a dandy, is it yours now?

Amazing how many big racks are hidden away collecting dust.

[Karl Blanchard]

Another old vintage Blacktail with lots of dust.  Killed on the Everett legion golf course in 1942.

That's a dandy, is it yours now?

Amazing how many big racks are hidden away collecting dust.

  I bet there are as many that were left in the field for the mice as there are hidden away in garages.  My grandpa never kept a single rack.  Even his moose he shot in Canada in the late 70's.  It was all about that meat for most of those old timers.

[JDHasty]

Blacktail and mule deer have the same antler configurations so without a cape how can one tell if it's mule deer or blacktail?  Is it just because it is big?

That confuses me.  What is the difference in capes between the two?  The only difference in animals that I am aware of, other than antler size, is the shape and coloration of the tail.

  I must have typed it wrong or you misunderstood me. The point I was trying to make is there a 0 way to tell whether that is a mule deer or Blacktail just by looking at a set of capped antlers.   Since both animals have the same antler configurations one would need some form of other identification to judge species.

DNA

[Boss .300 winmag]

Another old vintage Blacktail with lots of dust.  Killed on the Everett legion golf course in 1942.

That's a dandy, is it yours now?

Amazing how many big racks are hidden away collecting dust.

  I bet there are as many that were left in the field for the mice as there are hidden away in garages.  My grandpa never kept a single rack.  Even his moose he shot in Canada in the late 70's.  It was all about that meat for most of those old timers.

I know a guy that grew up in Idaho, he still leaves racks in the woods when he shoots Bulls , and bucks. 

[NWCoho]

That's a dandy, is it yours now?

Yes  My gramp had a bunch of horns but out of the hundreds this one always stuck with me.  He told me the story when i was young.  It would come up from the golf course and eat in his garden every day until he said enough.  He took my dad and a wheel barrel down to the edge of the course and brought it home.  Plan to get it mounted some day.  Almost used that cap from that big Blacktail i got this year.

[Karl Blanchard]

Blacktail and mule deer have the same antler configurations so without a cape how can one tell if it's mule deer or blacktail?  Is it just because it is big?

That confuses me.  What is the difference in capes between the two?  The only difference in animals that I am aware of, other than antler size, is the shape and coloration of the tail.

  I must have typed it wrong or you misunderstood me. The point I was trying to make is there a 0 way to tell whether that is a mule deer or Blacktail just by looking at a set of capped antlers.   Since both animals have the same antler configurations one would need some form of other identification to judge species.

DNA

Yes DNA is the obvious way to tell but I don't taking a DNA sample by looking at a picture is possible.

Once again, I was trying to point out that you cannot tell BT or MD by LOOKING at a picture of a capped set of antlers.  Every time someone puts  up a pic of a big blacktail it is belittled with "gotta be mule deer" or "benchleg", when there is no way to tell that from a pic of a skull cap tacked to a shed.  Giant BT bucks do exist and are one of the most impressive trophies, so lets show them some respect, not belittlement

[Karl Blanchard]

That's a dandy, is it yours now?

Yes  My gramp had a bunch of horns but out of the hundreds this one always stuck with me.  He told me the story when i was young.  It would come up from the golf course and eat in his garden every day until he said enough.  He took my dad and a wheel barrel down to the edge of the course and brought it home.  Plan to get it mounted some day.  Almost used that cap from that big Blacktail i got this year.

  I agree you gotta get a cape on that bad boy! 

[Mr Mykiss]

Another old vintage Blacktail with lots of dust.  Killed on the Everett legion golf course in 1942.

I think many of us may have just missed the take home message here...GIANT bucks ALWAYS live on golf courses!! Been that way since always!! You're welcome.

[fishnfur]

Blacktail and mule deer have the same antler configurations so without a cape how can one tell if it's mule deer or blacktail?  Is it just because it is big?

That confuses me.  What is the difference in capes between the two?  The only difference in animals that I am aware of, other than antler size, is the shape and coloration of the tail.

  I must have typed it wrong or you misunderstood me. The point I was trying to make is there a 0 way to tell whether that is a mule deer or Blacktail just by looking at a set of capped antlers.   Since both animals have the same antler configurations one would need some form of other identification to judge species.

DNA

I agree JD, but I don't get the feeling anyone is doing that.  The story of the hunter and location of the harvest seem to determine the sub-species at this point.  For the case in question - that monster rack posted by the OP, it would be a relatively simple matter to do a DNA extraction from the skull plate, but where would you send it?    That rack seems so huge that it seems that word of this monster would have leaked out over the years if it was a BT.  It may be my imagination (and God knows I rarely know what I'm talking about), but it looks to my untrained eye like it would score 180+, even without a known size reference next to it.  Tons of mass and spread on that thing!

[fishnfur]

Another old vintage Blacktail with lots of dust.  Killed on the Everett legion golf course in 1942.

I think many of us may have just missed the take home message here...GIANT bucks ALWAYS live on golf courses!! Been that way since always!! You're welcome.

 
I wonder if the hunter got a penalty stroke for taking an extra shot?

[Karl Blanchard]

Blacktail and mule deer have the same antler configurations so without a cape how can one tell if it's mule deer or blacktail?  Is it just because it is big?

That confuses me.  What is the difference in capes between the two?  The only difference in animals that I am aware of, other than antler size, is the shape and coloration of the tail.

  I must have typed it wrong or you misunderstood me. The point I was trying to make is there a 0 way to tell whether that is a mule deer or Blacktail just by looking at a set of capped antlers.   Since both animals have the same antler configurations one would need some form of other identification to judge species.

DNA

I agree JD, but I don't get the feeling anyone is doing that.  The story of the hunter and location of the harvest seem to determine the sub-species at this point.  For the case in question - that monster rack posted by the OP, it would be a relatively simple matter to do a DNA extraction from the skull plate, but where would you send it?    That rack seems so huge that it seems that word of this monster would have leaked out over the years if it was a BT.  It may be my imagination (and God knows I rarely know what I'm talking about), but it looks to my untrained eye like it would score 180+, even without a known size reference next to it.  Tons of mass and spread on that thing!

My great uncle Jack's buck sat in my grandpa's basement for literally decades.  It wasn't until I got older and more  into deer that I dug into the story behind it.  Shot in the mid 20's on our family farm in Eatonville, it was just tossed up in the rafters of the barn.  When my uncles were in highschool they took up taxidermy and desperate for more projects they snagged that rack and put a cape on it.  Thats how it ended up in my grandpas basement.  Never saw the light of day until I convinced my grandpa to let me get it scored.  At the time it was number 4 or 5 in the world for Typical Columbia BT.  The following year B&C established a Non typical classification fot he CBT and this buck was the pending world record Non Typ.  That year alone though multiple basement bucks were dug up and scored, which crushed Jack's buck.  Not sure where he ranks today but I believe he is still in the top 10.  If anyone has the latest addition of the NW big game records book they can look him up.  He's also in some book written by the guy who scored it about the greatest BT of all time or something to that effect.

Lots of Monster BT, MD, WT, Elk, etc out there that nobody knows about or cares enough to have scored. 

[Boss .300 winmag]

Blacktail and mule deer have the same antler configurations so without a cape how can one tell if it's mule deer or blacktail?  Is it just because it is big?

That confuses me.  What is the difference in capes between the two?  The only difference in animals that I am aware of, other than antler size, is the shape and coloration of the tail.

  I must have typed it wrong or you misunderstood me. The point I was trying to make is there a 0 way to tell whether that is a mule deer or Blacktail just by looking at a set of capped antlers.   Since both animals have the same antler configurations one would need some form of other identification to judge species.

DNA

I agree JD, but I don't get the feeling anyone is doing that.  The story of the hunter and location of the harvest seem to determine the sub-species at this point.  For the case in question - that monster rack posted by the OP, it would be a relatively simple matter to do a DNA extraction from the skull plate, but where would you send it?    That rack seems so huge that it seems that word of this monster would have leaked out over the years if it was a BT.  It may be my imagination (and God knows I rarely know what I'm talking about), but it looks to my untrained eye like it would score 180+, even without a known size reference next to it.  Tons of mass and spread on that thing!

My great uncle Jack's buck sat in my grandpa's basement for literally decades.  It wasn't until I got older and more  into deer that I dug into the story behind it.  Shot in the mid 20's on our family farm in Eatonville, it was just tossed up in the rafters of the barn.  When my uncles were in highschool they took up taxidermy and desperate for more projects they snagged that rack and put a cape on it.  Thats how it ended up in my grandpas basement.  Never saw the light of day until I convinced my grandpa to let me get it scored.  At the time it was number 4 or 5 in the world for Typical Columbia BT.  The following year B&C established a Non typical classification fot he CBT and this buck was the pending world record Non Typ.  That year alone though multiple basement bucks were dug up and scored, which crushed Jack's buck.  Not sure where he ranks today but I believe he is still in the top 10.  If anyone has the latest addition of the NW big game records book they can look him up.  He's also in some book written by the guy who scored it about the greatest BT of all time or something to that effect.

Lots of Monster BT, MD, WT, Elk, etc out there that nobody knows about or cares enough to have scored.

Got any pics?

[Karl Blanchard]

Unfortunately no.  I posted some pics on here a few years back but that was several phones ago.  My grandparents had a house fire last year and during the rebuild they had their home broken into several times.  The first time they took all the taxidermy work, my grandfathers guns, and took a bunch of food out of the freezer but left it ( ) There are pics in that book I mentioned.  Wish I could remember the name.

I'm afraid we won't ever see that head again though I still keep a sharp eye on craigslist and the local pawn shops.  I hate theives 

[NWCoho]

Another old vintage Blacktail with lots of dust.  Killed on the Everett legion golf course in 1942.

That's a dandy, is it yours now?

Amazing how many big racks are hidden away collecting dust.

  I bet there are as many that were left in the field for the mice as there are hidden away in garages.  My grandpa never kept a single rack.  Even his moose he shot in Canada in the late 70's.  It was all about that meat for most of those old timers.

He always said you can't eat those horns and the big ones are tough.  Take those young bucks and let those big bucks take care of the does.  I would ask him why he had so many big horns in the shop. Answer was always because.    He told me the easiest way to tell a MD from BT on the high hunts was by the size of the ears.     He killed 2 big moose that i remember.  Those horns stayed on the shop floor.  I have the smallest set of those and the same thing it was all about the story he told me.

StlHeader  That's a huge Blacktail thanks for posting.    No DNA, Cape, Tail or Ears needed for me.  It's all about the trophy and stories.  I just enjoy having the chance to view it.   Its also nice to see big trophies like that get noticed in the books but that's up to the owner.  Maybe we need a Vintage Hidden Horn/Fur/Feather thread.

[fishnfur]

Well said Coho.  Good thread for a rainy afternoon.