that colockum bull that was taken

[phishisgroovin]

Heres that bull that was shot early in the morning on a sunday heading into the last week of our hunt.

Only heard one shot all day, stumbled across this after seeing a couple fellas hi-tail it out of the area i found this, no antlers hanging off their packs, they had to have buried the head somewhere.

All they took was the hind quarters, front upper legs and back straps, didnt gut it at all.
this was taken three days after it was shot. after coyotes and ravens picked at it.
one photo with my foot in it to show the size of the hoofs, this was NOT a spike. the hoofs are too large.

found three live rounds of 300 mag, wrapped em in cloth and a plastic bag for the game warden.
Told him where to find the carcass after he pulled us over to see the Elk shed in the jeep lol!

Never did find the head and antlers for this or a freshly dug hole, maybe they hung it in a tree. we never looked up now come to think of it.

[PolarBear]

 

[longrange7mm]

   was there a small cut behind the last long rib? when i mtn man sumpn in the field i dont gut either but i still get the tenderloins! thats bs. that they left so much meat. maybe they already took the head out. but i was told by a gamey that if he sees me packin the head out before the meat he can sight me.  

[phishisgroovin]

they left so much meat on this bull we got sick looking at it, it actually ruined our trip.
Just sucked bigtime to see a bull down, knowing there was a 5 point raghorn kicking it in the area not worried of the hunters at all, then we seen this on the last day of our week, headed back over the following wednesday and took this round of pics on thursday before the season closed.
this is up on the plateau off the Little carabou rd.

it was a really nice bull that was hanging around there, so we know the guys shot an illegal bull.
look at how large the hoofs are compared to my 10-1/2" shoe.

[phishisgroovin]

  was there a small cut behind the last long rib?

Actually no, these pics were taken after three days lying in the field and yotes & ravens picked at it.

[HornPorn]

I don't gut them eather, unless I can get them out hole. Looks like there is a cut behind the ribs. that's how I get the tenderloins too. they should have taken some rib meat and flank.

[phishisgroovin]

because the only people allowed to harvest elk in this manner at the colockum are tribals, NO tribes were hunting up there at this time.
We are required to haul the complete animal out as the Gamie Mike told us.

[mtndew]

We are required to haul the complete animal out as the Gamie Mike told us.
[/quote]The Regulations do not say that the complete animal needs to be hauled out, only that all the usable meat be taken. I would agree that there appears from the photos that there is still meat left on the carcass. But it also looks like over 90% of the meat was taken? Hard to tell exactly from the photos just how much meat was left.

[longrange7mm]

they should have took some rib meat. and they should defiantly take a field care skinning/ deboning class that is terrible work! it is rather gut wrenching when you come across a mess like this.  . if the bull was poached then karma will get there dumb a$$ and maybe they are a member and read this with all of us bashing them. and cursing there terrible butchering. As for being told you have to take the whole carcass that seems a little ridiculous. and i cannot find that any were in the rigs. You need to take all edible portions of meat!

[longrange7mm]

they should have took some rib meat. and they should defiantly take a field care skinning/ deboning class that is terrible work! it is rather gut wrenching when you come across a mess like this.  . if the bull was poached then karma will get there dumb a$$ and maybe they are a member and read this with all of us bashing them. and cursing there terrible butchering. As for being told you have to take the whole carcass that seems a little ridiculous. and i cannot find that any were in the rigs. You need to take all edible portions of meat!

and if your adventures take the intestines for sausage wrap and the brain for tanning!

[Michelle_Nelson]

I didn't read this whole thread so if this was alread said sorry.

Maybe one of the guys brought the head back to the truck when he went to bring the packboards down to get the meat.

[JackOfAllTrades]

but i was told by a gamey that if he sees me packin the head out before the meat he can sight me.

I'm packin out the head as proof that I've killed a legal bull or buck. I'll have 'some' meat with me -on the first trip. But certainly not all of the meat. I'll lock the head/rack up or hide it somewhere.

Any conservation officer that can't see through that process will see me in court when I stand there and tell the judge he's a moron.  -Of the officers I have met in the field, none fit that.

There does look to be some meat waste in that photo. That's an ethics issue. Not a legality.

-Steve

[gasman]

Don't get me wrong, i do nt condone with what they did, but at least they took meat. It could have been some one "Antler Hunting", and only take the head and leave the rest to rot.
You know what i am talking about 

[alanger]

I hate it, just sickens me when A-wholes do crap like this. 
 


Where at in the colockum was this?

[longrange7mm]

but i was told by a gamey that if he sees me packin the head out before the meat he can sight me.

I'm packin out the head as proof that I've killed a legal bull or buck. I'll have 'some' meat with me -on the first trip. But certainly not all of the meat. I'll lock the head/rack up or hide it somewhere.

Any conservation officer that can't see through that process will see me in court when I stand there and tell the judge he's a moron.  -Of the officers I have met in the field, none fit that.

There does look to be some meat waste in that photo. That's an ethics issue. Not a legality.

-Steve

i was just told that by a gamey. i half to agree with you 100% and there is no f-en way i would ever leave a head behind in the field. my statement was miss leading my apologize. i was trying to mean that a gamey is not always correct, they wear a badge but that doesn't make them right every time.  Just because the gamey told you to take the whole elk out doesnt mean you have to take the whole elk out!

[SGM R]

If you kill a animal, take the time and enjoy the flavors of your kill and difinetly take the meat...

[phishisgroovin]

The way i see it, when you are hunting such a heavily hunted hill.
Look around at all the other camp sites while roading around, there is ALWAYS a cart sitting in one, it only takes a second to ask one of these campers/hunters if you can borrow or for a small fee (BEER) use their cart to move your animals out of the meadows.
I am positive they wouldnt have to think more than a second about you using it. They would probably help roll the carcasses out in fact. I would.
then what meat you dont want can be given to these other guys and consumed rather than wasted up in the meadow where other hunters cannot touch it for fear of losing their hunting rights and paying out the ying yang for illegal taking of meat.
I just dont like waste i guess, but every hunter is different.

[Dipsnort]

Just out of curiosity, does Washington have a legal standard for the portions of meat that should be retained?

[JackOfAllTrades]

Not that I know of. Never seen it in writing. I would think that anyone worth half a crap would be able to beat the rap in court if they showed that they harvested the most meat they could within a timeframe from kill to certain meat spoilage.

-Steve

[Pathfinder101]

but i was told by a gamey that if he sees me packin the head out before the meat he can sight me.

I'm packin out the head as proof that I've killed a legal bull or buck. I'll have 'some' meat with me -on the first trip. But certainly not all of the meat. I'll lock the head/rack up or hide it somewhere.

Any conservation officer that can't see through that process will see me in court when I stand there and tell the judge he's a moron.  -Of the officers I have met in the field, none fit that.

There does look to be some meat waste in that photo. That's an ethics issue. Not a legality.

-Steve

i was just told that by a gamey. i half to agree with you 100% and there is no f-en way i would ever leave a head behind in the field. my statement was miss leading my apologize. i was trying to mean that a gamey is not always correct, they wear a badge but that doesn't make them right every time.  Just because the gamey told you to take the whole elk out doesnt mean you have to take the whole elk out!

Same here.  The head and some meat comes out with the first trip, as proof that it is a legal animal.  Probably strapped to a daypack.  The lion's portion of the meat comes out next on a packframe.  More trips if needed.  Could be this was a legal bull on a special tag, but sure looks suspicious.  Either they are retards about meat removal, or they were in a hell of a hurry. 

Just out of curiosity, does Washington have a legal standard for the portions of meat that should be retained?

I know that Montana and Wyoming have standards for this, and they differ.  Montana says quarters and backstraps.  Wyoming says ALL useable meat, including ribmeat and flankmeat. 

[MichaelJ]

I hear ID is VERY strict as well for the quantities of meat left behind... Especially the IDFG officers around lewiston (just what I've heard from more than a few ppl, no personal experience)...

AS for that bull, maybe there is more of an explanation to it, looks like they wasted quite a bit of meat but atleast they took the bulk of it.  On a deer I take little more than they did, but on elk we take more unless we're close to a road but we're almost always boning our animals out...

Michael

[bowelkaholic]

Front shoulders backstrap hindquarter tenderlions heart liver all with out gutting.Gutting is old school looks close to your pic.HAPPY HUNTING MERRY X-MAS

[Whitefoot]

I'd have to look at it in person but if you google boning an elk and than click on to field dressing.. Then scroll down to the end..   Looks like the elk in this thread was quartered and back straps were bonned or else the legs would still be ther not juss the hoofs.
What is WA guide for taking out a d-boned elk?

[kirkl]

i dont think leaving 2-4 pounds of rib meat and a little flank steak is wasting meat when he probably brought out 200+ pounds of meat if it was a bigger bull or less on a spike.

[mossback91]

i dont think leaving 2-4 pounds of rib meat and a little flank steak is wasting meat when he probably brought out 200+ pounds of meat if it was a bigger bull or less on a spike.

 

[klickman]

Wasted meat is wasted meat.  It doesn't matter the quantity.  All edible meat should be taken, not just most of it.  You owe it to the animal to not waste it.  As for taking out the horns first bad idea.  Most of us here wouldn't do it but a lot of people won't work as hard for the meat in that deep canyon if they already have their trophey out.  Get all the meat out of the field then go get the horns.  If you are in the process of packing out an animal you don't have to proove a legal animal to a GW.  He can hike down with you on your next trip to see if its legal. 

KLICKMAN

[Pathfinder101]

I am pretty sure most of us are packing out the head first, so they don't return to the carcass and find it headless...  If a gamey needs proof that I have killed a legal animal, it's locked up in the cab of the truck, not lying out in the woods where some tweaker can saw them off and run...

[Kowsrule30]

If I can't get it out whole... The head always comes first....    Just how I roll....

[klickman]

I am pretty sure most of us are packing out the head first, so they don't return to the carcass and find it headless...  If a gamey needs proof that I have killed a legal animal, it's locked up in the cab of the truck, not lying out in the woods where some tweaker can saw them off and run...

Chances are the tweekers won't saw off the horns they'll just bust your truck window and take them.  I don't see too many tweekers too far from the road. 

KLICKMAN

[Pathfinder101]

Good point, I guess.

[bonkellekter]

It is a very rare occasion that we kill a bull close enough to the road to take it out whole. Not sure what WA rules are for how much and what meat U Are supposed to pack out but Idaho is pretty strict (basically take all usable meat) So if U use this as your guide I am sure U will be OK. As far as packing the head out first - Unless it is a trophy class bull we leave the head and cape and do our best to take all meat (de-boned) on the first trip including the antlers. Antlers alone don't add alot of weight (depending on size). If it takes two trips to get it all than that is just part of the gig and if you can't handle it you shouldn't be hunting IMO regardless of what comes out first. However in a situation where u might have meat spoil if u pack the head and cape out first than it is a no brainer - leave the head and hide for the second or third trip - Hide it if u need too. It is really just common sense.

[Elkaholic daWg]

If I can't get it out whole... The head always comes first....    Just how I roll....

 Not only that, but we have knocked down Bulls on the Colockum in the past where we were not the first people to them and short of a war...there was no way we would have left there with the animal. It happened to me in 1985, and a friend in 1995 ( to loggers in the 4 corners area)

[Pathfinder101]

If I can't get it out whole... The head always comes first....    Just how I roll....

 Not only that, but we have knocked down Bulls on the Colockum in the past where we were not the first people to them and short of a war...there was no way we would have left there with the animal. It happened to me in 1985, and a friend in 1995 ( to loggers in the 4 corners area)

I guess that's why we've always done it that way.  Never happened to me, but heard lots of stories.

[GreggHunts2hard4u]

this is just a portion of the illegal elk killed the past 09 season. i alone stumbled upon 6 dead bulls ranging from 2x3-2x1. note this is just in one area below the pedit and above colockum pass/powerline rd fork. makes me sick didnt every1 take a hunters saftey class that gave you SHOOT or NOT SHOOT situations? if your not sure if its a true 1x1 DONT SHOOT!!!!

[boonerboy]

head first.

[colockumelk]

this is just a portion of the illegal elk killed the past 09 season. i alone stumbled upon 6 dead bulls ranging from 2x3-2x1. note this is just in one area below the pedit and above colockum pass/powerline rd fork. makes me sick didnt every1 take a hunters saftey class that gave you SHOOT or NOT SHOOT situations? if your not sure if its a true 1x1 DONT SHOOT!!!!

WTF?  You can't expect people to be responsible for their own actions, that just is not the American way anymore 

[eatonville45]

allot of people quarter elk and deer this way. Most fail to realalize that there in more meet under the back straps. Mite have been an old man by him self ive complety boned elk out and on there rib cage there is not that much to them not saying you should not do a better job at least they got 98% of the meet and did not leave a head less bull out there.

[GreggHunts2hard4u]

Thats true your right you cant expect ppl to be responsible for their actions, which is why theres more and more game wardens every year and more and more animals killed and not harvested and left to waste. the colockum is a great place to hunt but between the indians and hunters the bull to cow ratio is horrible! opening morning i got into a herd of 200+ cows and calves not one bull now somthing about that isnt right. i think one of the best things the state could do is close the powerline rd from the colockum pass to bruton. the area used to be well traveled by elk but now an elk can barely sneak past the shooting gallery of ppl camped all along the road. close off the powerline road and open a very good elk area that ppl would have to hike into instead of drive right down the middle of. ive seen it happen the guys on horseback scare the elk out of the canyons off of lightning ridge elk head up to cross powerline rd and once they hit the treeline the book it back down hill cuz they know better than crossing the open powerline areas its REDONKULOUS! call me stupid but i think closing the powerline rd would make a huge impact on the elk in the colockum. it might not stop the illegal kills but it would give the elk a little more of a safe haven than the half logged no feed game reserve

[phishisgroovin]

i am just glad the area that opened up to me being able to gimp around on it will be any bull of my choice.
If i see an antler, i am blasting the sum-beech! 

[flyguide]

It doesn't look too bad to me, the rib meat is marginal if you cut off all the flank meat and skin the meat down to the cavity.  I agree with some others on here, it is tough to judge a situation that you weren't a part of.  I have quartered up several large bulls by myself in the backcountry and use this exact approach, in fact, I always use this method on elk unless the truck is close by.... which is never. It is clean and you don't risk any stomach contents ever coming in contact with the meat which is nice.

[3dvapor]

i agree the rib meat alot of times dries out to quick and looks like jerky after a couple days in the cooler.  probably because i usually hunt in sept and is usually harder to  get the meat out in time.

[Elkaholic daWg]

they left so much meat on this bull we got sick looking at it, it actually ruined our trip.
Just sucked bigtime to see a bull down, knowing there was a 5 point raghorn kicking it in the area not worried of the hunters at all, then we seen this on the last day of our week, headed back over the following wednesday and took this round of pics on thursday before the season closed.
this is up on the plateau off the Little carabou rd.

it was a really nice bull that was hanging around there, so we know the guys shot an illegal bull.
look at how large the hoofs are compared to my 10-1/2" shoe.

 328 - NANEUM           total  1pt    2pt   3pt    4pt    5 pt   6+pt
   TOTALS     10     8 18       1      1       0       0       1       5
329 - QUILOMENE - PMU 32
TOTALS                            1    1    2    0    0    0    0    1    0


  Notice where Quilomene seems to only have 1 big bull reported harvested and I bet this is not the one!