8 different special apps pools!

[Bob33]

"So how does it work with the MH moose permits? I was told that a guy could possibly kill a moose every year if he was chosen for the damage hunt. "

Master Hunter permits are currently exempt from the "once in a lifetime" clause.

"An individual may only harvest one moose during their lifetime; waived for hunters who have harvested a moose in an antlerless only hunt, master hunter hunts, and raffle and auction hunts."

However, the odds of someone drawing a Master Hunter moose permit each year, being called to hunt each year, and successfully harvesting a moose each year are about 0.  As I understand it there were around 1000 applicants for 20 permits last year.  Even if you draw you may not get to hunt.  

So in theory, yes: you could kill a moose every year, either by drawing a Master Hunter permit every year, by drawing a raffle every year, or by purchasing an auction tag every year.

[billythekidrock]

Are there even 1,000 MH's?

[Bob33]

There are presently approximately 2100 Master Hunters. 

[ABugg]

The quality hunts will predominately be hunts during the rut for deer or elk; say the first 2 weeks in November for blacktails, for example.  New hunts should be added, but most with only a limited # of permits 1-10 in most cases.

Many of the current doe/cow tags may be switched to 2nd tag options which means 2 deer/elk could be taken; 1 during general season and 1 with a 2nd tag if drawn.  I suspect drawing odds for some of the better hunts might decrease because you have guys who would have applied only for the antlerless hunts that can now apply for both.  I also think the number of doe and cow permits would have to decrease in order to account for a higher kill rate (not all guys kill a doe even though they have a permit, they hold out for a buck).

[JBar]

Wow my head hurts after reading 18 pages of this. I'm pretty sure I am against their proposal but I need my head to stop hurting to comprehend most of it. More general fund money for the Old Hag to spend somewhere other than on wildlife.

[bobcat]

Wow my head hurts after reading 18 pages of this.

That's understandable!  I think someone should start another thread on this subject so we can get a fresh start. 

[MooseStock]

I have never had a problem with our current permit draw system. It gives all a chance at only 4 draws and favors those with more points. There are always exceptions but the odds favor those with more points depending on the type of hunt you applied for. I have drawn both deer and elk and now have few points but I accept the fact that in the current system my odds are less. I think this new permit system and how crazy it seems just really shows that we currently DO have a fair and decent system. "If it ain't broke...don't fix it". I see this as just a cash grab for the state and a system with tenfold the problems they have had in the past or just a HUGE "ClusterFock"....or something like that................Les

[WDFW-SUX]

The quality hunts will predominately be hunts during the rut for deer or elk; say the first 2 weeks in November for blacktails, for example.  New hunts should be added, but most with only a limited # of permits 1-10 in most cases.

Many of the current doe/cow tags may be switched to 2nd tag options which means 2 deer/elk could be taken; 1 during general season and 1 with a 2nd tag if drawn.  I suspect drawing odds for some of the better hunts might decrease because you have guys who would have applied only for the antlerless hunts that can now apply for both.  I also think the number of doe and cow permits would have to decrease in order to account for a higher kill rate (not all guys kill a doe even though they have a permit, they hold out for a buck).

Having more hunt options will mitigate some of the damage to the odds from more applications. Any other details Abugg?

[ABugg]

That's all I know at this point. 

[boneaddict]

I'm curious how the department plans on supporting this two tag option withthe current status of our herds.  Mostly, the elk are doing fine, though some would argue the Clock and Blues are having some recruitment issues.  The Methow deer population is horrible to anyone that spends any time out there.  No matter what Fitkin says, in order to push his wolf agenda, that herd is in trouble.  They are one step away from catastrophic.  One late spring, one more heavy winter.  This is a whole other topic, but increasing antlerless oppurtunities to try to offset the decreased odds everywhere else is NUTS.  You want to fix the odds, and have this system, go to 2 choices on a permit app.  One antlered and one antlerless.  You get the same revenue, increase odds and oppurtunity. We can all sit here and argue about odds and choices etc. but I think we can all agree this proposal SUCKS, whether you have zero points or 12, a seasoned hunter, or a kid just starting out.

[WDFW-SUX]

WDWF is just another government jobs program. Sound management went out the window along time ago.

[SkookumHntr]

I would rather them  increase permit fees or license fees or anything for that matter to get more money if they need it. Anything but make the draw odds worse! How come instead of creating money by ruining are hunt opportunities why cant they decrease spending!! Do we need to moniter wolves and coller them? lay off personal as far as im concernd now! That should save them money, everybody else is!

[Ridgerunner]

I agree if they open up some new hunts that will help spread the draw odds out more,  I have a few hunts I'd like to see added.

[bobcat]

In my opinion the best way to make odds better would be to increase the cost of a special permit application. It's only $5 now. Make it $20 or $25 each. That's still not a lot of money but when somebody starts thinking about applying for 5, or 6, or more different permit categories, it would really add up. And think of non-resident fees... to come up with non-resident fees the WDFW simply multiplies resident fees by 10. So all these non-residents that are applying for our moose, mountain goat, and bighorn sheep tags for $50, would be paying $200 if we were paying $20. So a lot of non-residents would be taken out of the drawings, and also the wives, grandmothers, etc that get put into the drawings just because it's so cheap.

[Lowedog]

Wow my head hurts after reading 18 pages of this. I'm pretty sure I am against their proposal but I need my head to stop hurting to comprehend most of it. More general fund money for the Old Hag to spend somewhere other than on wildlife.

While I am no supporter of the Old Hag I was searching around for info on where the fees go and found this.

Where do license fees go? What percentage goes into the State General Fund or other funds NOT for use by WDFW?
79% goes to the State Wildlife Account 13% of that money goes to Other WDFW controlled accounts 5% goes to the General Fund

Out of the money that goes to the General Fund, how much is appropriated back to the Department?
As an example: In fiscal year 2002, the Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife deposited $47,099,799 as revenues into the General Fund and spent $90,389,524 as expenditures from the General Fund.

but I think we can all agree this proposal SUCKS, whether you have zero points or 12, a seasoned hunter, or a kid just starting out.

I actually don't agree with that.  I have a lot of questions about it but I will wait till I can get more info before I say it is worse, better or no different than what we have now. 

One thing is certain from the link that Ridgerunner posted is that they are simply proposing what the majority supported.