Need to ship inherited firearms

[h2ofowlr]

I inherited a few of my uncles guns from Arizona.  Do I have to ship them to someone with a FFL or can I ship them directly to my address?  What's the best way.  It is 6 guns.

[Jamieb]

Are you going down there to send them off yourself? I'm not sure how the law works if someone else is shipping your guns to you but you can ship a gun accross state lines from yourself to yourself without getting a FFL involved.

[Bofire]

 :)state to state I really do not know the law. it is a transfer of ownership, so I think paper work is the law. O course a drive to Arizona say, or  machine tools shiped, I am not sure?? what the laws are. proof of ownership and insurance are good to think about also.
Carl

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

This will probably just confuse you, I would probably just drive down myself, I guess it just depends on how many are involved....

Shipping Legalities
Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL) only. The recipient must have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale).

Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

'Antique' firearms need not be shipped to a licensed dealer. These can be shipped directly to the buyer. An antique firearm is a firearm built in or before 1898, or a replica thereof. The exact ATF definition of an antique firearm is:
Antique firearm. (a) Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and (b) any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (a) of this definition if such replica (1) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (2) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Knives, air guns, accessories, and most gun parts need not be shipped to an FFL holder. We say most gun parts because each firearm contains at least one part that the ATF considers a firearm. This part is typically the part that contains the serial number. This part must be treated as a complete firearm when shipping the item.

Ammunition must be clearly identified as 'Small Arms Ammunition' on the outside of the box. Some shippers treat ammunition as dangerous or hazardous materials.

The section of the US Code that governs modern firearms is called Commerce in Firearms and Ammunition (CFA). This code is available online at: http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/27cfr_part478.pdf

When in doubt, we suggest arranging for transfer through a licensed dealer. Violation of the CFA is a felony and penalties for violation of it are severe.

Federal and State Law Resources
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) has a very comprehensive site containing information about the various Federal and state laws regulating firearms. Please refer to the ATF information for legal questions regarding firearms.
ATF Home page: http://www.atf.gov
ATF Compilation of the various state laws: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5.pdf
ATF Firearms Division Main Page: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/index.htm

Shipment by Unlicensed Persons
Any shipper who does not have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be an 'unlicensed person'. This section contains information on how unlicensed persons can ship firearms. If you have an FFL, please skip to the next section for shipping suggestions.

The most important thing to know is that you must only ship guns to a licensed dealer. If the buyer is not a licensed dealer, he will have to make arrangements to ship the item to a dealer in his state.

Before you ship a gun, the buyer must fax or mail you a copy of the dealer's signed FFL license. You can only ship the gun to the address on the license. You must inform the carrier that the package contains a firearm. Of course, the firearm cannot be shipped loaded; ammunition may not be shipped in the same box. You should take the copy of the signed FFL with you when you take the item to be shipped in case the shipper wishes to see it.

Notes on specific shippers:

US Mail: An unlicensed person can ship a rifle or shotgun by US Mail. Unlicensed persons cannot ship a handgun by US Mail. Postal regulations allow the Post Office to open your package for inspection. Ammunition cannot be shipped by US Mail. You can search the US Post Office Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

FedEx: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as dangerous goods.

FedEx Ground: FedEx Ground will transport and deliver firearms (excluding handguns) as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S. Ammunition must be shipped as dangerous goods.

UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition. Most other shippers will no longer accept firearm shipments. Airborne and Roadway have specifically prohibited firearm shipments.

Shipment by Licensed Persons
Any shipper who has a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be a 'licensed person'. This section contains information on how licensed persons can ship firearms. If you do not have an FFL, please see the previous section of this page for shipping instructions.

Since licensed persons are responsible for knowing the law, we are going to assume that you already understand the CGA and know the applicable Federal, state, and local laws.

Notes on specific shippers:

US Mail: Licensed persons can ship a rifle, shotguns, or handguns by US Mail. In fact, we suggest that you use the USPS as it is now the most cost-effective way to ship a handgun. To ship a rifle or shotgun, you need only inform the Post Office that the package contains a firearm. A licensed manufacturer, dealer, or importer can ship a handgun via the US Post Office if the licensed dealer fills out a US Post Office Form PS 1508 and files it with the local Post Office branch where the handgun is to be shipped. You can search the US Post Office Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

FedEx: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as dangerous goods. NSSF members can sign up for a discount of up to 26% on FedEx shipments.

UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition.

Most other shippers will no longer accept firearm shipments. Airborne and Roadway have specifically prohibited firearm shipments.

Notes on USPS Firearm Regulations
We recommend that you read the Post Office regulations on Other Restricted or Nonmailable Matter before shipping a firearm through the US Mail.

The following info comes from the USPS Regulation DMM Issue 54, January 10, 1999, section C-024

Page C-39, section 3.0, Rifles and Shotguns: "Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 1.1e and 1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act or 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated there under, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 1.1e."

Page C-39, section 6.0, PROHIBITED PARCEL MARKING: "For any parcel containing a firearm or a ballistic or switchblade knife, any marking that indicates the contents is not permitted on the outside wrapper or container."

The following pertains only to licensed dealers shipping handguns:

Page C-37, section 1.3, Authorized Persons: "Subject to 1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government......."

Page C-38, section 1.5, Manufacturers and Dealers: "Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts."

Page C-38, section 1.6, Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers: "A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major components thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms."

[bobcat]

Your uncle could ship them to himself at your address without a FFL holder involved.

[Caseyd]

Id fly over driving. Southwest is based out of Az and is usually cheap between Wa and Az ($148 each way)

[whacker1]

I would drive to avoid the hastle if there are more than half a dozen of them.  $25 per gun would be part or all of your fuel bill depending on what you drive.  Nothing like a sled load of guns in the back of a Prius  

[h2ofowlr]

So, far I only know of 6 that I am getting.  There probably is more and they are being split up between the family.  I don't know what I am getting yet, just 6 guns.  I will find out shortly.  I know he used to have several HK-91's, so I am keeping my figers crossed.

[bobcat]

Are you going to Arizona or is somebody from down there shipping the guns up here?

[h2ofowlr]

I was going to have my aunt ship them, but I am seeing that I may have to fly down to make arrangements.  I don't think she wants to deal with the guns.

[whacker1]

I say road trip

[jackelope]

6 guns would probably cost you $300 or so between shipping and FFL transfers...
 

[whacker1]

by the way this is a great problem to have.... how do I get 6 firearms from AZ to WA for the least amount of money?

[KimberRich]

6 guns would probably cost you $300 or so between shipping and FFL transfers...
 

I'd say that's pretty close.

 If your aunt doesn't want to deal wth them and you can fly down for $300 I'd say that's the way to go.  You could fly down and back the same day.  Might be a little cheaper for fuel if you drive a metro or prius but not worth the time spent on the road to save a few $$ in my opinion.    That's to bad about your uncle.  Hope it all works out and that's great your getting 6 new guns!

[bobcat]

I'm not sure I'd want to fly, wouldn't it be a hassle bringing 6 guns on the plane? You'd have to have a hard case for all of them too.

[jackelope]

you'd need a FAA approved case for each gun, and you'll also end up paying additional baggage charges for each of them.
that's gonna be big bucks.

If you want them bad enough I'd go there and do all the shipping stuff and then go and ship them to yourself. You might be able to avoid FFL transfer fees by shipping them to yourself too...

[whacker1]

Yes, you would have to have a hard case for all of them, but 2 guns per case times 3 cases.  If any are pistols then possibly less cases than the requirement for long guns.  Traveling on Alaska for hunting trip with guns was not that difficult.  Just required that they inspect them, and amunition traveled separately.  I think flying would be your best bet.  Make a weekend trip and spend a day with your family.  extra bags could rack a few fees, but shouldn't be horrible.  Either borrow case or two from a buddy or buy them in AZ.

[KimberRich]

Could just buy 2 large hard cases and check them.  I've flown with guns before and wasn't a problem.  He did say that he wasn't sure what he was even getting so could be pistols or easily broke down shotguns or ?? I shipped 3 shotguns in one large hard case this year and it worked great.  Just padded between them to keep from rubbing against one another.  Like I said, it's to bad about your uncle but I wish I had the problem of having to pick up a bunch of guns!

[jackelope]

from american airlines website.

For tickets purchased on or after February 1, 2010:
$25 for the first checked piece. Exceptions may apply.
$35 for the second checked piece. Exceptions may apply.
$100 per piece for the 3rd, 4th and 5th checked bags
$200 per piece for the 6th checked bag and any additional pieces

Checked baggage which is larger than 62 in/157 cm will be charged at the rate of $150 per piece.

you're also gonna have to watch the length too, although I don't think they'd be +5' long...  
an airline approved case will probably start around $50.00 or so for a single gun sized case.

[whacker1]

when we flew Alaska, we had 2 guns per case per person x 4 guys.  They didn't inspect each case to see if they were FAA approved, but I do believe that all of our cases were FAA approved.  I know some folks that travel with custom made travel cases and don't catch any flack.  $15 per bag x 3 = $45 unless you break 50 lbs.   $45 x 2 trips (WA to AZ) & (AZ to WA).  = $90  doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.  

We flew to Alaska in 2004, so things may have changed, but I haven't heard any real difficulties mentioned lately from folks that have traveled with firearms more recently.  might be worth insuring them via homeowner's insurance prior to departing AZ if any have significant value, in case the airline makes errors, and one case should disappear or get damaged.

Yes, Jack that is exactly why I avoid American if I have any luggage requirements.  They don't seem to want to be in business for very long based on their current customer service modeling. 

[whacker1]

My math was wrong regardung Alaska's baggage fees.

$15 for first bag
$25 for second bag
$50 for third bag

$90 each way - looks, like you would be in the $400 range including the airfare assuming it took 3 cases to make it happen.

oversize baggage is over 62 linear inches
here is the link on transporting firearms via Alaska
http://www.alaskaair.com/as/www2/help/faqs/SportRelatedItems.asp

[whacker1]

Jack - This could work well for getting some of those firearms back from New York.  make a point of flying an airline that will be helpful, and bring a case or two with you.   

[bobcat]

I would do what Jackelope suggested, fly down, and then mail all the guns to yourself. This way you don't have to pay a transfer fee to an FFL holder. That will save you about $150 right there. The cost of mailing each gun shouldn't be too high either, maybe $15 or $20 each.

[MikeWalking]

When I fly to Alaska my Rifle case (sometimes with a revolver in it too) goes in an Army surplus duffel with soft gear. sleeping pads and the like.  2 guns per case, 3 cases should fit in one duffel. Might pay extra for weight, or not...

[KimberRich]

I would do what Jackelope suggested, fly down, and then mail all the guns to yourself. This way you don't have to pay a transfer fee to an FFL holder. That will save you about $150 right there. The cost of mailing each gun shouldn't be too high either, maybe $15 or $20 each.

Mailing them home is a good idea also.  I agree that avoiding the FFl hassle is the way to go. Most guns I ship are from $30-$40 and those are single guns in single cases or even a box when possible to reduce weight.  A larger heavy case will be more.  I'm thinking when I shipped 3 Model 12 Win. to Colorado in one large case it was about $70 with insurance and all.