"Putting a Square Peg in a Round Hole" The fall of the Colockum Elk Herd.

[Viszla]

colok, it's all good, I see your point.  I didn't pay too much attention to the branched antler bull numbers.  Looks like maybe shuttting down the season for a couple of years may be the only solution.  I do think that the tribal situation is worse than you think, however.  Fact is, we don't really know how many animals they take every year.  What they report taking and what they actually take are completly different.

[colockumelk]

That's true Viszla.  Those numbers come from estimates based on what our Game Wardens see/witness and from local butchers.  IMHO it's very unethical what the Yakama's do.  I also think that its not right that they don't have any accountability over their members and don't have to report any harvest data. 

I think it's ironic that they try to act like they are the original "conservationists" yet have the mentality that they should be able to take what they want.  As far as big game goes they have YET to help out and I doubt the ever will.  It's very sad.  In my paper I'd like to say they have a bigger impact but I can't inject my opinions into the paper.  I can only use the facts at hand. 

[fisheral87]

IMO Even if you shut down the hunting for a couple years and reopened it thing would return to the same state they are now. You would have poor hunting then great hunting, then poor hunting, not a stable system of management, again IMO.

Al

[colockumelk]

Shutting down hunting for one year or two would only be a band-aid.  Two year later we'd be at square one.  What needs to be done is to go to permit only, or make the season there for a weekends instead of two.  Basically to increase the spike retention by a little bit.  And then to fix the problems that are there.

The two main things are too many roads and too much logging.  Unfortunately the WDFW doesn't own all the land up there.  Most of it is DNR or Forest Service so the WDW can't close all the roads up there or do anything to stop the increase in logging.  The only thing they can control is how many spikes live through the year through regulations.  The WDFW does need to do some more road closures on the land they do own.  I know road closures are not popular with many but for the people who think that road access has nothing to do with the dismall % of spikes that live every year need to do some research. 

[whiteeyes]

That's true Viszla.  Those numbers come from estimates based on what our Game Wardens see/witness and from local butchers.  IMHO it's very unethical what the Yakama's do.  I also think that its not right that they don't have any accountability over their members and don't have to report any harvest data. 

I think it's ironic that they try to act like they are the original "conservationists" yet have the mentality that they should be able to take what they want.  As far as big game goes they have YET to help out and I doubt the ever will.  It's very sad.  In my paper I'd like to say they have a bigger impact but I can't inject my opinions into the paper.  I can only use the facts at hand. 

You said it right your opinions are your opinions and facts are facts.

[colockumelk]

In a paper as such you can only use facts.  Unfortunately since the Yakama's are not required to report any of their harvests there isn't any harvest data.  So as far as facts go there are NONE!!!  If the Yakamas truly cared about conservation they would require harvest data.  Just like every game managment organization does.  Including most other tribes outside of our state.  

Fortunately the WDFW and resident hunters have taken the highroad and know that two wrongs don't make a right.  If the WDW were to manage game like the tribes manage game there wouldn't be any game left.  

The point of this thread and my paper wasn't to even talk about the tribes.  Unfortunately the Yakama's do have an impact on the Colockum elk herd so I guess its inevitable that the topic will come up.  The purpose is how we as resident hunters and conservationists can come together to make a bad situation better.  I was trying to enlighten people and get the word out about why the Colockum elk herd is huring pretty bad. 

[WSU]

Did you find out what the harvest was this past year?

[Elkaholic daWg]

Permit only falls under the definitions of conservation.  The purpose of "controlling" the tribes isn't to restrict their harvest, considering we harvest 10x more than they do.  The purpose would be to make them go to a "permit" system in which case we'd finally be able to document the amount of animals taken.  Basically they would be finally held accountable, just like you and I are to the amount of harvests.

Best part of the idea right there....Level the field.  But since ethics aren't followed now......would they be then???

[colockumelk]

Did you find out what the harvest was this past year?

No those stats havn't come out yet.  But from what it sounded like the true spike didn't help out much.  The WDFW only expects it to help out by 10%.

  I also purposely left out the year 2002 and the year 2009 survey results since those two years had too many errors.  In the case of 2002 in both herds the WDFW estimates for bulls was way, way, way, way off.  Like if the 2002 survey was true then in PMU 33 and in the Colockum we lost 50% of our bulls in one year.   In the case of 2009 since the winter was so mild accurate counts wasn't possible so again going by those numbers compared to 2009 both herds would have lost 50% of their bulls. 

[WSU]

So what would that be?  A recruit of an extra 40 or 50 bulls each year?  How would it effect the bull/cow ratio over the long term if we were recruiting 40 extra bulls per year?

[elksnout]

 

[duckmen1]

ya on fishing i know that these indians on the westside met their quota on silvers at chambers bay but not on chinooks
so they kept putting out nets for the chinooks and were getting silver
900 silvers were left on shore dead baking in the sun because by law they were able to net kings because that quota was'nt met, but they were getting silver and just throwing them on shore dead
does'nt make since to me

on the elk issue i agree we need to lesson haarvest each year but that needs to limit one bull per tribe member also
it needs to go both ways

[elksnout]

I joined this site approx 1 1/2 years ago. I've read with great interest the posts and replies concerning the elk herds of central and eastern Washington. I say with interest because some in our west side elk camp have spoken about trying our luck in that part of the state. You know, drier weather, blue skies, big pine trees and country a heck of a lot more open than what we are used to seeing. My son and myself even have quite a collection of points now in which to draw an any bull tag.
I have to believe all {well maybe} of what I've have read concerning the demise of these once great herds of elk. Is the situation really that dire ? Seems awful darn sad to me.

[TheHunt]

You did a great job in your report.   You analysis within a scientific method is very strong.  I would suggest you keep collecting the data and posting.  I personally do not expect anything from the Fish and Game department.

Personally, I think just let it go.  When the elk numbers start to affect the Indians, the situation will get some propaganda behind it.  I am sure the news org would love to see your report year after year telling the situation but the Fish and Game department continues to do nothing.

You have made it very clear that with the number of breeding bulls dropping and the number of cows getting bred verses cows just getting old and dieing will finally come to equilibrium of population that the herd will be just a fraction of the current herd with five to seven years. 

Anyway, good job and keep doing this every year as you can lead a mule to water but you can not make it drink.     

[colockumelk]

So what would that be?  A recruit of an extra 40 or 50 bulls each year?  How would it effect the bull/cow ratio over the long term if we were recruiting 40 extra bulls per year?

Good question.  Obviously every little bit helps but........?  How long will it take for that extra 40-50 bulls a year to make a difference?  The goal for the WDFW for that herd to get it back to par is for 50% of the spikes to live through the hunting season.  If this is truely the WDFW goal then true spike just isn't going to cut it. 

TheHunt thank-you very much.  I never thought about sending it to the papers.   I will do that so thankyou for that good idea.  I am sending it to as many RMEF branches I can including their main office.  Thanks again hunt for the good idea.