Thanks fellas. Another thing learned. I've been looking at CL everyday trying to find a decent starter camera for a decent price. I also have been reading all of the posts on here, new and old trying to glean as much information as possible to make a informed purchase. I've missed a few that I felt were pretty fair so far. Canon or Nikon, I really don't care. As stated on this site, both are pretty equal in quality. I'm to the point now where I 'm ready to say screw it and buy new. Here's an example : D80 with kit lens, blah, blah. Gotta take sellers word for it you know. Then I called a camera shop in Portland who has just the body that's been checked out. Then I priced the kit lens on CL the guy was selling with it. Good grief... the CL deal was no deal at all. Another lesson learned.