mechanical broadheads

[bearpaw]

when will archers come to the reality that mechanicals are just as reliable as a fixed blade broadheads when given a good quartering or broadside shot.

Probably come to the realization about the same time that they are as reliable.

An archer by the name of Chuck Adams has some thoughts: "The trouble is, mechanical heads are not perfect. In more than half of the 60 or so animals I have seen shot with mechanical broadheads, some failed to open, failed to penetrate well, or failed to hold up under impact with bone, however, I'm happy to report that the latest mechanical designs from New Archery Products, Barrie Archery, Satellite, Cabela's, and other top companies now open consistently. Likewise, such heads are stronger than ever before. But at their best, mechanical heads still squander 25- to 50-percent of an arrow's penetrating energy simply to open up. The butterfly action of these heads plus their long noses combine to create very high penetrating friction. And because blades are not supported at the rear when open, they can fold or snap on impact with bone or even heavy ribs. Compared to fixed-blade broadheads, mechanicals simply are not as strong."

+2 this logic seems to match what I have seen, no doubt Adams knows what he is talking about as well as anyone.

[Ray]

Ray at the bow hunters shoots they NEVER have told someone they cant shoot there bows, because of the KIND of bow they shoot.
so what good would it do for ARCHERY to ban Compound bows for hunting? or is it just you don't want us compound bow hunters in the woods with you guys at the same season?..cancer..yep I have never heard compound bow hunters trying to stop the Trad. hunters.
Why cant you guys look at bows as bows. What is the difference between the 2?. I read that some think we have a shorter season because of the compound bows? Thats funny  as for the baiting and hounds  its the same ...small groups will get picked off one by one from the anti hunters. I know I would not want the people of Washington voting about bow hunting.
How has the compound bow HURT bow hunting?

Oh I have 2 Trad bows and 2 compound bows . I AM a ARCHER and a HUNTER

like I said WE as Archers need to stick together.

as for Mechanical head I would not shoot them on elk. the key word is I  just like I dont like cut on contact heads

Nockbuster,

You're a strange creature. First you make several very poor analogies and make character attacks against someone for their point of view. Then it appears you might be someone's alter ego. Should I stop there?

Then you accuse someone like me of "banning compound bows" or even supporting the idea. Lies. Does it stop there?

Then you make some claim of elitism. It is those who eschew all sane rules and regulations who are the elitists that want to promote equipment to serve their selfish wants.

Frankly a lot of what you have proposed and suggest as fact (about 95% of it) is in fact a bunch of rhetoric. For your supposed first two posts you have very little standing.

Snapshot is a real stand up guy and has done a lot to contribute to the archery community. His opinion is worth hearing and is sound. It seems to me that you don't prefer dissenting opinions and want to attack people on a personal level instead of using tact.

[nockbuster]

 for snapshot to say compounds  are completely unnecessary.
What is that doing to help archery?

[Ray]

It's fairly obvious he commented in jest as he quoted another proponent. You're really just grasping for anything you got. But from a lot of perspectives the rules are sound at the status quo.

[nockbuster]

It's fairly obvious he commented in jest as he quoted another proponent. You're really just grasping for anything you got. But from a lot of perspectives the rules are sound at the status quo.

Ok so I just read it wrong? he was not saying any thing bad about compound bows?
I hope so ...if so then sorry
It really hits a nerve with the trad vs comp thing we need to stick together.

[Lowedog]

Then it appears you might be someone's alter ego. Should I stop there?

  So who's using an alter ego?   

[Snapshot]

Correction, I commented that mechanical broadheads are “completely unnecessary”. I feel this way because we have fixed blade broadheads available to us that will never, ever reach a ribcage incapable of doing the job it was designed to do. But the same has yet to be said of a mechanized unit with moving parts. Some will argue, “But I have to sharpen those, and I have to be able to tune my bow exactly right”, to which I will reply “Then take responsibility and learn to do so!”

MrMorton responded that compound bows are unnecessary; that everyone could use recurves and longbows because they work. I am pretty sure he was being facetious but I happen to agree with those words he put down (and I laughed out loud when I read them). A bending bow does work and they have for at least tens of thousands of years. And I love them; everything about them. I love that I can make one and about everything that I need to go with it with my own two hands. I love that when I put a bending bow in the hands of a child at school or at the summer camp for young burn victims, they find unbridled joy in letting an arrow fly toward the target. I love that a child as young as ten or twelve years old can be carefully coached on how to use simple hand tools and be led through the process of making their own serviceable bow.

It may come to pass during my lifetime that the non-hunting public gets to decide the fate of hunting; I doubt it but it might. I know many non-hunters; and I know several who are anti-hunter EXCEPT when it comes to methods that give the animal the advantage. And they use these words: “At least you give the animal a fair chance.” I have heard those words spoken over and over, sometimes right after they have told me, “No, I don’t wish to try some of your venison.” And IF those types are given the chance to sway such a vote I would darn sure hope they’ll think of a longbow and a 15 yard shot before they decide; because if they do then maybe the next generation will get to archery hunt. Bear-baiting was lost, I think, because it was perceived as being akin to shooting fish in a barrel. And in elections perception is reality. I think people perceived it wasn’t fair. It is too bad for I would have liked to have tried it once before I am done.

Ray is right; the reasons for traditional shoots are as valid as the reasons for a bowhunter shoot. For the same reasons there are Steel Tip dart leagues and classic VW Beetle Clubs; because there is a segment of society that enjoys them and only them. No one should deny that right…  

What have I done? I’ve done pitifully little in comparison to the men who worked tirelessly to get archery hunting seasons established and then maintained in this country so that we could all enjoy them. In fact I once bowed out altogether. In 1976 at the NFAA range of the club that my dad helped start, I was told that my style of bow was going the way of the dinosaur and that everyone would soon be shooting compounds. A family member let me shoot his; I let loose two or three arrows, handed it back and told him, “I don’t like it.” So I quit archery and big game hunting at age 17 because what I loved about it, the simplicity, was going away. It wasn’t until nearly fifteen years had passed that I shot my Bear Grizzly again; I had been gifted a magazine subscription and found that the old ways hadn’t completely died after all. So I got back into it. But not just to whack and stack another animal or two. I joined and began volunteer work for two state archery organizations and one local traditional club, and joined to lend support to three national archery organizations. And I started helping kids and adults learn to shoot and to make their own gear. I did a four-year stint on a board of directors. I was asked to serve another board of directors for the state organization whose purpose is solely to foster traditional archery and preserve its history. I’ve done so proudly for a dozen years because that purpose is as near and dear to my heart as anything besides my family and friends. Who just so happen to shoot bows that bend.  

I’m not anti-compound. They just aren’t for me. If they were gone tomorrow I wouldn’t miss them; but that is not going to happen. And nobody is out to ban them, for crying out loud. Lots of people believe in them and so they are here to stay.

Here is a hypothetical question: If the time ever came that the game department had to reduce hunting impact on game populations, and the choices were, a) limiting equipment capabilities or, b) shortening the seasons, which would the people choose? I’m talking not just about archery but all methods. Would the flintlock or the 30/30 get dusted off in exchange for another couple of weeks in the woods?

Dale Sharp
Renton

[bearpaw]

You have to be careful with equipment limitations. Sometimes if you force less effective equipment into incapable hands, you do not actually save game. Ray mentioned something like the status quo is pretty good, and I would agree. Some guys are not happy using compounds, yet some hunters are not going to be effective with more traditional equipment, so maybe the current system isn't so bad. 

[Lowedog]

That's a nice story Dale.

[sisu]

There's several old discussions on the topic no doubt. I'm against mechanicals. Anything moving is prone to breakage and failure to deploy. It seems to me that there are really a lot of options for archers as it stands anyway. I want a strong broadhead which cuts on contact. Not a weak one with moving parts that may fail to deploy.

Archers should be concerned with length of season instead of gadgets.

Ditto!

[Snapshot]

Ray mentioned something like the status quo is pretty good, and I would agree. 

Yes, the status quo in terms of equipment is not bad. But like Ray said, and Sisu seconded, we need to find creative, supportable ways to reverse the recent trend of shorter and shorter time in the field.

[Lowedog]

I don't think the advancement of equipment is near the top of reasons any time in the field is lost for any type of hunting method.  There are other factors that have had a far greater impact on any loss opportunity.  Archers still have by a long measure the greatest opportunity for time in the field hunting than any other form of hunting in WA.

[Snapshot]

Lowedog,

We will never know the impact technology has had; even if they started trying to track it hunter reports may not be entirely accurate (although as a group bowhunters had been far more compliant than the others prior to the penalty being implemented).

But, like in politics, perception is reality. And when I go to a WDFW Commission meeting and hear, before the meeting was called to order, a successful multi-tag winner boast to the (then) chairman of the Commission that he killed a royal bull with a ninety yard arrow shot, it gave that Commissioner the perception that bowhunters are out there killing animals from great distances (distances from which, I am told, the old flintlock muzzleloaders aren’t even accurate); and when at that same meeting that Commissioner then grills me about “all this technology” that bowhunters have now and asks “where  is it going to stop?”, and “don’t you guys have any concerns about it?”; when that happens, we have a potential problem. Real or perceived doesn’t matter; the Commission that determines our seasons questions it. This particular incident occurred in Olympia about two years ago. And one year later our seasons got severely whacked. Coincidence, maybe. …we may never know.

[robb92]

I have used both fixed blade and mechanicals, I prefer the mechanicals over fixed blades. First year deer hunting in Maryland I shot a doe at 8 feet with muzzy 100 grain 3 blades right behind the shoulder and the arrow only went in half way, no blood, no deer or arrow, looked for the rest of the day and into the next for her, never found her, there was no branches or leaves blocking the shot. I went out and bought some mechanicals the next day and have never lost a deer when using them. This was back in 2004 and since that time I have harvested over 50 deer with them. I prefer the NAP or Allen broadheads, I tried the rocket mechanicals in my block target and the damn blades fell off and they came off the arrows and they are sitting in a mason jar that I use for the spare o rings and washers.

[Lowedog]

Where did the seasons get severely wacked?  As an archer you have the entire month of September for deer.  If you are talking about the late mule deer hunts I think that has more to do with the number of people hunting.  I was actually in support of those hunts going to draw only.

Long shots are made with traditional gear also.  It wasn't so out of the norm for some of the guys who many consider to be the reason we have archery seasons to take what would be considered today of extremely long shots with traditional gear. 

Maybe in that situation with the commissioner it would have been a good opportunity to explain that.