mechanical broadheads

[mrmorton]

well i have to say, i wish washington would allow mechanicals. i love a lot of the benefits of mechanicals and i currently shoot muzzy 3 blade 125grain heads. i just wish the option was there for me to choose. how do you guys or girls feel about mechanicals on elk sized game? ive seen elk killed with rage two blade heads. not the head i would use but ive seen it done. your thoughts?

[mrmorton]

 

[Ray]

There's several old discussions on the topic no doubt. I'm against mechanicals. Anything moving is prone to breakage and failure to deploy. It seems to me that there are really a lot of options for archers as it stands anyway. I want a strong broadhead which cuts on contact. Not a weak one with moving parts that may fail to deploy.

Archers should be concerned with length of season instead of gadgets.

[carpsniperg2]

i feel the same as ray. a good cut on contact broadhead is a must for me. there are so many choices that are out there i see no need for the mechanical broadheads

[Snapshot]

Yep, they are completely unnecessary.

[mrmorton]

compound bows are unnecessary. we all could just use longbows or recurves, they work. when will archers come to the reality that mechanicals are just as reliable as a fixed blade broadheads when given a good quartering or broadside shot. i shoot fixed but i would shoot mechanicals in a heart beat.

[Lowedog]

Only advantage I see is arrow flight.  A properly tuned bow should get your fixed blades flying as well as mechanicals.  I don't have any experience with them but I don't think I would use them on elk size game.  

I don't see any reason to make them legal here.  Better to learn to tune your equipment.  All part of the archery experience for me.

That being said if they were legal here I wouldn't care.  I still don't think I would use them.  

compound bows are unnecessary. we all could just use longbows or recurves, they work. when will archers come to the reality that mechanicals are just as reliable as a fixed blade broadheads when given a good quartering or broadside shot. i shoot fixed but i would shoot mechanicals in a heart beat.

The whole traditional/modern thing has been discussed at length on here.  Do a search on mechanicals and I'm sure you will find plenty of reading.

[colockumelk]

I don't know if I'd use them on elk.  To me for elk size game penetration on bone is the key.  Any broadhead on the market if shot through the rib cage on a perfectly broadsize elk at 20yds will give you a clean pass through.  However I want a broadhead that if I mess up will still penetrate through some good bone mass and penetrate at least one lung.  Or if I'm shooting at 40-50yds wont hit a rib and deflect.  I want it to punch through. 

For deer I'd use them in a heart beat.  In fact I plan on using them this year on deer.  I'm going to try them on hogs as well this year just to see how well they on bigger tougher game.  That is one nice thing about Alabama, I can field test a bunch of different broadheads on different game. 

So in short I'm not against them and I'm not for them.  I'm going to wait and see for myself.  But also I know fixed blades work great on elk so if it works why switch?

[Bob33]

when will archers come to the reality that mechanicals are just as reliable as a fixed blade broadheads when given a good quartering or broadside shot.

Probably come to the realization about the same time that they are as reliable.

An archer by the name of Chuck Adams has some thoughts: "The trouble is, mechanical heads are not perfect. In more than half of the 60 or so animals I have seen shot with mechanical broadheads, some failed to open, failed to penetrate well, or failed to hold up under impact with bone, however, I'm happy to report that the latest mechanical designs from New Archery Products, Barrie Archery, Satellite, Cabela's, and other top companies now open consistently. Likewise, such heads are stronger than ever before. But at their best, mechanical heads still squander 25- to 50-percent of an arrow's penetrating energy simply to open up. The butterfly action of these heads plus their long noses combine to create very high penetrating friction. And because blades are not supported at the rear when open, they can fold or snap on impact with bone or even heavy ribs. Compared to fixed-blade broadheads, mechanicals simply are not as strong."

[bow4elk]

I got to field test the NAP Spitfire 2-blade mechanical heads back in 1995 before they hit the market.  I was nervous to shoot them as there was only one other animal harvested with them prior to my two caribou bulls in Quebec.  Dave Holt and I both shot our bulls with them and neither of us experienced any issues.  Shot placement is and always will be the starting point of any discussion on broadheads.

I shot one bull at 8 yards, slightly quartering away.  He ran about 30 yards and piled up.  My second bull, a 350-class stud, was with a large herd moving fast toward the lone boulder I was crouched behind.  I peeked up and saw his palmated tops about 30 yards out.  I drew and waited at full draw for him to appear.  As he came around the big rock I grunted with my voice to stop him but because he was with about 300 other animals   they all scattered like a school of minnows.  He was around 24 yards broadside and walking when I released.  My arrow hit mid-body and I knew it was too far back.  As he crested a small rise I ran to close the distance for another shot.  He was facing directly away from me walking with his head down.  My second arrow buried full length into his left ham, and he only went another 30 yards or so before crumbling into a creek.

I got exceptional performance out of those heads and wouldn't hesitate using them again, but I'm a fixed blade guy at heart.  I like no-moving-parts because I feel it reduces opportunity for failure.  I use NAP Nitron 100s and love them.  I used T-125's for over 10 years, and T-100's for another 10 years.  My opinion is there are a lot of great heads out there today but sharp blades and shot placement win out everytime  

[Snapshot]

compound bows are unnecessary.

I couldn't agree with you more.   

[nockbuster]

compound bows are unnecessary.

I couldn't agree with you more.   

Post like this makes me sick! I read your other post about comp vs. Trad crap . you are the CANCER of Archery
Why do you want to separate  the 2? so we can have shorter seasons? or so you will no longer be able to hunt with Trad gear? If it goes to a vote you will lose and be like the hound hunters and baiting for bears. I go to 3-D shoots and Trad shooters come and shoot with us. BUT not you . YOU have Trad. ONLY shoots? why? We need to stick together as BOW HUNTERS.

[Ray]

It's interesting when those who want to propose the change to the status quo and upset the balance call out others as "Cancers" of the sport. I kind of think it works the other way around.

Why have a bowhunters shoot? Well, some of the same reasons there is a trad only shoot. To promote the sport, gather like minded individuals and foster a sense of brotherhood among them.

The analogy to baiting bears is much different than mechanical equipment differences. It had nothing to do with archery and there is no conclusive evidence that people who shoot longbows and recurves or self bows had anything to do with it.

[nockbuster]

Ray at the bow hunters shoots they NEVER have told someone they cant shoot there bows, because of the KIND of bow they shoot.
so what good would it do for ARCHERY to ban Compound bows for hunting? or is it just you don't want us compound bow hunters in the woods with you guys at the same season?..cancer..yep I have never heard compound bow hunters trying to stop the Trad. hunters.
Why cant you guys look at bows as bows. What is the difference between the 2?. I read that some think we have a shorter season because of the compound bows? Thats funny  as for the baiting and hounds  its the same ...small groups will get picked off one by one from the anti hunters. I know I would not want the people of Washington voting about bow hunting.
How has the compound bow HURT bow hunting?

Oh I have 2 Trad bows and 2 compound bows . I AM a ARCHER and a HUNTER

like I said WE as Archers need to stick together.

as for Mechanical head I would not shoot them on elk. the key word is I  just like I dont like cut on contact heads

[bearpaw]

Mechanical Broadheads
I have a story about mechanical broadheads. They are illegal in Idaho too, but I had a hunter show up from Ohio with them. I told him he had to go to town and buy new broadheads, he went to town bought broadheads and showed us arrows with the fixed blade broadheads. We didn't check his arrows every day, but later in the hunt he gets a broadside shot at a 6x6 bull. Guess what???

Yep, he arrows the bull, the arrow hit bone and didn't penetrate, he says "I don't know why it didn't penetrate better, I used an expanding broadhead, and it kills whitetails back home every time."  I felt like sending the guy home, first he broke the law, second he lied to us, 3rd we never recovered the elk due to lack of penetration. That still pi$$e$ me off when I think about him wounding that bull.

Expandables are probably great on small game, but from experience I can tell you they are inadequate on large game and there is a reason the western states do not allow them.

Fixed Blade
I swear by fixed blade broadheads on big game. Even the ones with replaceable blades are strong. I used muzzy's on my muskox, they went through all the hair, through the shoulder blade and exited the other side. On my moose the fixed blades passed all the way through. I had a friend who shot zwickey black diamonds, one year he killed his deer, bear, and elk all with the same broadhead. He is the only person I know to have done that and all he had to do was resharpen it.

Compounds vs Traditional
Like all other hunting sports, division will be the detriment. As long as the equipment is adequately effective we should support each other. There are legitimate arguments for and against each type of bow, we are all much farther ahead to support each other. I personally think archery in general is taking some hits in lost opportunity, archers better quit bickering and just support each other. Due to an injury I don't have a choice anymore, I can only shoot a lightweight compound.

[bearpaw]

when will archers come to the reality that mechanicals are just as reliable as a fixed blade broadheads when given a good quartering or broadside shot.

Probably come to the realization about the same time that they are as reliable.

An archer by the name of Chuck Adams has some thoughts: "The trouble is, mechanical heads are not perfect. In more than half of the 60 or so animals I have seen shot with mechanical broadheads, some failed to open, failed to penetrate well, or failed to hold up under impact with bone, however, I'm happy to report that the latest mechanical designs from New Archery Products, Barrie Archery, Satellite, Cabela's, and other top companies now open consistently. Likewise, such heads are stronger than ever before. But at their best, mechanical heads still squander 25- to 50-percent of an arrow's penetrating energy simply to open up. The butterfly action of these heads plus their long noses combine to create very high penetrating friction. And because blades are not supported at the rear when open, they can fold or snap on impact with bone or even heavy ribs. Compared to fixed-blade broadheads, mechanicals simply are not as strong."

+2 this logic seems to match what I have seen, no doubt Adams knows what he is talking about as well as anyone.

[Ray]

Ray at the bow hunters shoots they NEVER have told someone they cant shoot there bows, because of the KIND of bow they shoot.
so what good would it do for ARCHERY to ban Compound bows for hunting? or is it just you don't want us compound bow hunters in the woods with you guys at the same season?..cancer..yep I have never heard compound bow hunters trying to stop the Trad. hunters.
Why cant you guys look at bows as bows. What is the difference between the 2?. I read that some think we have a shorter season because of the compound bows? Thats funny  as for the baiting and hounds  its the same ...small groups will get picked off one by one from the anti hunters. I know I would not want the people of Washington voting about bow hunting.
How has the compound bow HURT bow hunting?

Oh I have 2 Trad bows and 2 compound bows . I AM a ARCHER and a HUNTER

like I said WE as Archers need to stick together.

as for Mechanical head I would not shoot them on elk. the key word is I  just like I dont like cut on contact heads

Nockbuster,

You're a strange creature. First you make several very poor analogies and make character attacks against someone for their point of view. Then it appears you might be someone's alter ego. Should I stop there?

Then you accuse someone like me of "banning compound bows" or even supporting the idea. Lies. Does it stop there?

Then you make some claim of elitism. It is those who eschew all sane rules and regulations who are the elitists that want to promote equipment to serve their selfish wants.

Frankly a lot of what you have proposed and suggest as fact (about 95% of it) is in fact a bunch of rhetoric. For your supposed first two posts you have very little standing.

Snapshot is a real stand up guy and has done a lot to contribute to the archery community. His opinion is worth hearing and is sound. It seems to me that you don't prefer dissenting opinions and want to attack people on a personal level instead of using tact.

[nockbuster]

 for snapshot to say compounds  are completely unnecessary.
What is that doing to help archery?

[Ray]

It's fairly obvious he commented in jest as he quoted another proponent. You're really just grasping for anything you got. But from a lot of perspectives the rules are sound at the status quo.

[nockbuster]

It's fairly obvious he commented in jest as he quoted another proponent. You're really just grasping for anything you got. But from a lot of perspectives the rules are sound at the status quo.

Ok so I just read it wrong? he was not saying any thing bad about compound bows?
I hope so ...if so then sorry
It really hits a nerve with the trad vs comp thing we need to stick together.

[Lowedog]

Then it appears you might be someone's alter ego. Should I stop there?

  So who's using an alter ego?   

[Snapshot]

Correction, I commented that mechanical broadheads are “completely unnecessary”. I feel this way because we have fixed blade broadheads available to us that will never, ever reach a ribcage incapable of doing the job it was designed to do. But the same has yet to be said of a mechanized unit with moving parts. Some will argue, “But I have to sharpen those, and I have to be able to tune my bow exactly right”, to which I will reply “Then take responsibility and learn to do so!”

MrMorton responded that compound bows are unnecessary; that everyone could use recurves and longbows because they work. I am pretty sure he was being facetious but I happen to agree with those words he put down (and I laughed out loud when I read them). A bending bow does work and they have for at least tens of thousands of years. And I love them; everything about them. I love that I can make one and about everything that I need to go with it with my own two hands. I love that when I put a bending bow in the hands of a child at school or at the summer camp for young burn victims, they find unbridled joy in letting an arrow fly toward the target. I love that a child as young as ten or twelve years old can be carefully coached on how to use simple hand tools and be led through the process of making their own serviceable bow.

It may come to pass during my lifetime that the non-hunting public gets to decide the fate of hunting; I doubt it but it might. I know many non-hunters; and I know several who are anti-hunter EXCEPT when it comes to methods that give the animal the advantage. And they use these words: “At least you give the animal a fair chance.” I have heard those words spoken over and over, sometimes right after they have told me, “No, I don’t wish to try some of your venison.” And IF those types are given the chance to sway such a vote I would darn sure hope they’ll think of a longbow and a 15 yard shot before they decide; because if they do then maybe the next generation will get to archery hunt. Bear-baiting was lost, I think, because it was perceived as being akin to shooting fish in a barrel. And in elections perception is reality. I think people perceived it wasn’t fair. It is too bad for I would have liked to have tried it once before I am done.

Ray is right; the reasons for traditional shoots are as valid as the reasons for a bowhunter shoot. For the same reasons there are Steel Tip dart leagues and classic VW Beetle Clubs; because there is a segment of society that enjoys them and only them. No one should deny that right…  

What have I done? I’ve done pitifully little in comparison to the men who worked tirelessly to get archery hunting seasons established and then maintained in this country so that we could all enjoy them. In fact I once bowed out altogether. In 1976 at the NFAA range of the club that my dad helped start, I was told that my style of bow was going the way of the dinosaur and that everyone would soon be shooting compounds. A family member let me shoot his; I let loose two or three arrows, handed it back and told him, “I don’t like it.” So I quit archery and big game hunting at age 17 because what I loved about it, the simplicity, was going away. It wasn’t until nearly fifteen years had passed that I shot my Bear Grizzly again; I had been gifted a magazine subscription and found that the old ways hadn’t completely died after all. So I got back into it. But not just to whack and stack another animal or two. I joined and began volunteer work for two state archery organizations and one local traditional club, and joined to lend support to three national archery organizations. And I started helping kids and adults learn to shoot and to make their own gear. I did a four-year stint on a board of directors. I was asked to serve another board of directors for the state organization whose purpose is solely to foster traditional archery and preserve its history. I’ve done so proudly for a dozen years because that purpose is as near and dear to my heart as anything besides my family and friends. Who just so happen to shoot bows that bend.  

I’m not anti-compound. They just aren’t for me. If they were gone tomorrow I wouldn’t miss them; but that is not going to happen. And nobody is out to ban them, for crying out loud. Lots of people believe in them and so they are here to stay.

Here is a hypothetical question: If the time ever came that the game department had to reduce hunting impact on game populations, and the choices were, a) limiting equipment capabilities or, b) shortening the seasons, which would the people choose? I’m talking not just about archery but all methods. Would the flintlock or the 30/30 get dusted off in exchange for another couple of weeks in the woods?

Dale Sharp
Renton

[bearpaw]

You have to be careful with equipment limitations. Sometimes if you force less effective equipment into incapable hands, you do not actually save game. Ray mentioned something like the status quo is pretty good, and I would agree. Some guys are not happy using compounds, yet some hunters are not going to be effective with more traditional equipment, so maybe the current system isn't so bad. 

[Lowedog]

That's a nice story Dale.

[sisu]

There's several old discussions on the topic no doubt. I'm against mechanicals. Anything moving is prone to breakage and failure to deploy. It seems to me that there are really a lot of options for archers as it stands anyway. I want a strong broadhead which cuts on contact. Not a weak one with moving parts that may fail to deploy.

Archers should be concerned with length of season instead of gadgets.

Ditto!

[Snapshot]

Ray mentioned something like the status quo is pretty good, and I would agree. 

Yes, the status quo in terms of equipment is not bad. But like Ray said, and Sisu seconded, we need to find creative, supportable ways to reverse the recent trend of shorter and shorter time in the field.

[Lowedog]

I don't think the advancement of equipment is near the top of reasons any time in the field is lost for any type of hunting method.  There are other factors that have had a far greater impact on any loss opportunity.  Archers still have by a long measure the greatest opportunity for time in the field hunting than any other form of hunting in WA.

[Snapshot]

Lowedog,

We will never know the impact technology has had; even if they started trying to track it hunter reports may not be entirely accurate (although as a group bowhunters had been far more compliant than the others prior to the penalty being implemented).

But, like in politics, perception is reality. And when I go to a WDFW Commission meeting and hear, before the meeting was called to order, a successful multi-tag winner boast to the (then) chairman of the Commission that he killed a royal bull with a ninety yard arrow shot, it gave that Commissioner the perception that bowhunters are out there killing animals from great distances (distances from which, I am told, the old flintlock muzzleloaders aren’t even accurate); and when at that same meeting that Commissioner then grills me about “all this technology” that bowhunters have now and asks “where  is it going to stop?”, and “don’t you guys have any concerns about it?”; when that happens, we have a potential problem. Real or perceived doesn’t matter; the Commission that determines our seasons questions it. This particular incident occurred in Olympia about two years ago. And one year later our seasons got severely whacked. Coincidence, maybe. …we may never know.

[robb92]

I have used both fixed blade and mechanicals, I prefer the mechanicals over fixed blades. First year deer hunting in Maryland I shot a doe at 8 feet with muzzy 100 grain 3 blades right behind the shoulder and the arrow only went in half way, no blood, no deer or arrow, looked for the rest of the day and into the next for her, never found her, there was no branches or leaves blocking the shot. I went out and bought some mechanicals the next day and have never lost a deer when using them. This was back in 2004 and since that time I have harvested over 50 deer with them. I prefer the NAP or Allen broadheads, I tried the rocket mechanicals in my block target and the damn blades fell off and they came off the arrows and they are sitting in a mason jar that I use for the spare o rings and washers.

[Lowedog]

Where did the seasons get severely wacked?  As an archer you have the entire month of September for deer.  If you are talking about the late mule deer hunts I think that has more to do with the number of people hunting.  I was actually in support of those hunts going to draw only.

Long shots are made with traditional gear also.  It wasn't so out of the norm for some of the guys who many consider to be the reason we have archery seasons to take what would be considered today of extremely long shots with traditional gear. 

Maybe in that situation with the commissioner it would have been a good opportunity to explain that.   

[colockumelk]

I'm not taking sides.  Like I said I'm testing some Rage Broadheads this year on deer and hogs.  I would never use them on an elk though.  That being said.... Chuck Adams does use Rage Mechanicals on deer and pronghorn.  Not sure about elk though.  But I'm thinking not.

[Snapshot]

Where did the seasons get severely wacked?  As an archer you have the entire month of September for deer.

Lowedog, we lost the last 25% of the early deer season and those days were given to the muzzleloader season; check the regulations. The elk season was cut by 7%, and the opening date continues to march up the calendar on its way to a September 2 opening in 2014  . The attempts to take away all of the region 2 general season and the unit 101 whitetail rut hunt were derailed only because a bunch of bowhunters showed up at the public input meeting; had it not been for that we'd have been doubly shafted.

If you are talking about the late mule deer hunts I think that has more to do with the number of people hunting.  I was actually in support of those hunts going to draw only.   

When all the state is draw only the WDFW will have met what I tend to think is their primary objective (100% management of the people) and hunting in this state will have deteriorated to being a rich man's sport, just as it did in Europe.

[colockumelk]

Snapahot your wrong. The WDFW goal is not permit only and is not to manage the people. After all this would mean a reduction in tag sales.  No their goal is to sell as many tags as possible while putting as many restrictions upon us as possible. It all about revenue not management.

[Ray]

Snapshot pretty much said what I think. I think they would like to make it all permit only for big game. They can sell a ton of tags no problem and have already proven that. Take a look at this year's permit system. It's a step in that direction. Once they get the exact number of people exactly where they want them... then they can do with them as they see fit. It's as much about people management as revenue. Forget about animal management. That's not too high on their list unless it's an endangered species ... and then they'll just bring in the feds anyway.

[bearpaw]

Ray mentioned something like the status quo is pretty good, and I would agree. 

Yes, the status quo in terms of equipment is not bad. But like Ray said, and Sisu seconded, we need to find creative, supportable ways to reverse the recent trend of shorter and shorter time in the field.

I meant equipment, and I totally agree, it seems to me archers are taking some pretty good hits. Archers used to be very organized and that's why archers had good seasons. I usually buy archery deer, this year I went back to rifle deer, the archery season has been decreased in my area, there were no losses in the rifle hunt, and the muzzleloader has been increased. The muzzy needed increased as they were by far the most limited, but I think the rifle hunters should have shared in reductions with bowhunters. 

[bigbull94]

I guess I am old school,but a fixed blade has never let me down yet!I know of a couple guys who arrowed bulls with expandables and weren't impressed with penetration.They said they were awesome on deer,but for elk they pretty much sucked.There is some reasoning behind the law,I am sure!!!

[Lowedog]

Archers have and still have the most generous seasons.  If any group could afford to give up something so that another had more opportunity then it was archery hunters.  Muzzy has been seriously lacking in opportunity for a long time and I think it is fair to give that group more time. 

To me elk is draw only.  If I don't draw I'm not hunting as I don't really want to hunt spikes or cows.  I don't hunt the west side.

I also refuse to think there is some conspiracy to go draw only so that we all can be somehow managed through that type of system.  There has been a lot of hunters voicing that they want better quality hunts these days.  Funny thing is when the dept tries to manage towards that type of hunting then we start hearing all the complaints about lost opportunity. 

[let.it.fly]

i have noticed that there is a us vs them attitude with trad archers. not all but some. i shoot a compound and i have never heard anyone who shot a compound say anything bad about trad shooters, on the other hand i have heard plenty of malicious comments by trad shooters about compound users. like i said speaking in generalities. not everyone fits this mold. before you attack me you should know that i have great respect for those that shoot trad. im sure it takes alot more practice and skill then shooting a compound. im sure im not the only compound shooter that feels that way. i shoot alot of small tourneys where on sunday you are grouped(generaly) with people you dont know, so i feel i have a good grasp of what people think about our sport. you spend 4-5 hours with someone and you tend to hear about the opinions. for the life of me i cant understand why anyone in this sport would look down there nose at another. i see it all the time. you trad shooters are nothing like the freestlye shooters so for that you get a bravo zulu.

[Snapshot]

Muzzy has been seriously lacking in opportunity for a long time and I think it is fair to give that group more time.

I agree with that. My concern is that once dates are lost it is difficult to get them back, even if the harvest statistics show that an imbalance has developed.

I also refuse to think there is some conspiracy to go draw only so that we all can be somehow managed through that type of system. 

I hope that I am wrong.

i have heard plenty of malicious comments by trad shooters about compound users.

All of the people I hang out with shoot traditional bows. A couple of them also own compounds. When I hear anything at all said about their compounds it is good-natured ribbing with tongue planted firmly in the cheek.

On internet forums, on the other hand, I have read some bashing; and it is a two-way street.

[Lowedog]

I think it would be in every hunters interest to think of it all as hunting.  We are all hunters and should stand by one another when it comes to fighting for opportunity. 

I enjoy shooting traditional bows.  I have built a couple even.  When it comes to archery hunting though I will pick up my compound 9 times out of 10 at this point in time.  I love that I have the choice.

[colockumelk]

Snapshot pretty much said what I think. I think they would like to make it all permit only for big game. They can sell a ton of tags no problem and have already proven that. Take a look at this year's permit system. It's a step in that direction. Once they get the exact number of people exactly where they want them... then they can do with them as they see fit. It's as much about people management as revenue. Forget about animal management. That's not too high on their list unless it's an endangered species ... and then they'll just bring in the feds anyway.

Ray I'll have to disagree with you like I disagreed with Snapshot.  I think that no matter how bad the herd numbers and more importantly the herd ratios get they will stick with a general season to the bitter end.  Why???  Revenue!!!  Just look at the Yakima and Kittitas County Mule Deer Herds.  Since 2004 their numbers have been reduced by 50-60% and there is still a general season.  Furthermore they still give out rifle rut permits in those GMU's.  If they truly cared about managment it would be permit only.  The Colockum elk herd is another example.  Which I've beaten to death so I wont elaborate.  If they go to permit only they will LOSE revenue.  They can't stand that.  It's all about making as much money as possible.

In my opinon going to permit only would be conter-productive to their goals.  AKA Revenue. 

[Ray]

i cant understand why anyone in this sport would look down there nose at another

Yeah you got it wrong. That's why you cannot understand it. It's not a matter of arrogant superiority as you insisted. That's when the bickering and the continued disagreements really turn sour. It's that frame of mind that contributes to the negative attitude. Equipment disagreements is not an I'm better than you issue. It's an I believe "this way" is the highway to longer seasons more opportunities and I understand how the season was founded and respect the tradition of archery as a primitive activity and those roots are important frame of mind.

[Lowedog]

I found this quote from the interview with Chuck Adams interesting and relative to the conversation. 


"Commercialization in general (I don’t think) is a bad thing.  I was reading (and I wont mention any names) an article the other day in a magazine about a fairly well known bowhunter.  The guy writing the article makes a comment like "refreshingly this particular bow hunter is not in the commercial business in bowhunting."  And yet on the same page the same writer said that his all-time hero was Fred Bear.  I kind of shut one eye and I stopped reading it and thought, "now that's ironic."  On the one end this writer is saying refreshingly this guy isn't commercializing the sport by being 'part of the industry.'  Yet his number one hero is the guy who commercialized archery more than any other person.  Put archery on the map more than any other person by going out and getting liberal bow seasons in various states.  I was thinking "what's wrong with this thinking?"

Commercialization is not necessarily a bad thing.  Without Fred Bear (who's my hero as well) commercializing archery and selling great products, without him actively getting states to acknowledge the bow as a lethal hunting tool so seasons could be started and expanded - where would we be today?  I actually think that commercializing our sport has been the thing that’s put our sport on the map.  If nobody had ever commercialized it, we wouldn’t have liberal bow seasons.  We wouldn’t have the lobbying power of three million bowhunters in this country to keep the anti-hunters at bay, etc."

[PA BEN]

First, mechanical heads are not dependable. Fixed blades are. Simple as that. As for Compound vs Traditional goes let me tell you my story. I killed my first deer w/a Bear Kodak Mag. 55lb recurve bow, I then went to a 68lb long bow. I killed several deer and had some big bull elk to far past my range. Every now and then I would get a bad hit on a deer and lose that deer. I had the responsibility to the animals I was hunting not to wound them and make a clean kill. That being said, I went to compound instead of quitting bowhunting all together.
As far as the seasons getting pinched. I had no problem getting my deer in the first two weeks of bow season. I would go to the hunter meetings in Chewelah, a group of locals meeting to give ideas to the game dept. These meets would turn into bitch sessions from the gun hunters agents the bow hunters. Bow hunters had the best seasons, bowhunters would always fill there tags, bowhunter wound animals, etc.
I stud up as a bowhunter and told them we all need to stick together and lobby for hunting. I got cussed at and screamed at from the chairman running the meeting. Who was a gun hunter. I have no problem with gun hunting at all. But I will say that it's because of guys like these men in those meetings giving input to the game dept. got the seasons cut.
BTW, I don't have the time to bow hunt since I moved to the wet side, so I've gun hunted for the past 3 years. And I drew a elk tag this year to hunt the rut Sept. 20th to the 24th w/a gun. My

[Snapshot]

I got cussed at and screamed at from the chairman running the meeting. Who was a gun hunter.

Was his name Gary?

[PA BEN]

No not Gary. Lets put it this way. He had nothing but big bucks on his walls, all he could do was complain about bow hunters taking all the big bucks. I called him out on this at that meeting. Another friend told him what does he need to take off his bow to make it equal with his gun. Then he told him, "O you might lucky and kill a big buck when you step out of your pick-up to take a piss." This guy was a big road hunter.