mechanical broadheads

[colockumelk]

I'm not taking sides.  Like I said I'm testing some Rage Broadheads this year on deer and hogs.  I would never use them on an elk though.  That being said.... Chuck Adams does use Rage Mechanicals on deer and pronghorn.  Not sure about elk though.  But I'm thinking not.

[Snapshot]

Where did the seasons get severely wacked?  As an archer you have the entire month of September for deer.

Lowedog, we lost the last 25% of the early deer season and those days were given to the muzzleloader season; check the regulations. The elk season was cut by 7%, and the opening date continues to march up the calendar on its way to a September 2 opening in 2014  . The attempts to take away all of the region 2 general season and the unit 101 whitetail rut hunt were derailed only because a bunch of bowhunters showed up at the public input meeting; had it not been for that we'd have been doubly shafted.

If you are talking about the late mule deer hunts I think that has more to do with the number of people hunting.  I was actually in support of those hunts going to draw only.   

When all the state is draw only the WDFW will have met what I tend to think is their primary objective (100% management of the people) and hunting in this state will have deteriorated to being a rich man's sport, just as it did in Europe.

[colockumelk]

Snapahot your wrong. The WDFW goal is not permit only and is not to manage the people. After all this would mean a reduction in tag sales.  No their goal is to sell as many tags as possible while putting as many restrictions upon us as possible. It all about revenue not management.

[Ray]

Snapshot pretty much said what I think. I think they would like to make it all permit only for big game. They can sell a ton of tags no problem and have already proven that. Take a look at this year's permit system. It's a step in that direction. Once they get the exact number of people exactly where they want them... then they can do with them as they see fit. It's as much about people management as revenue. Forget about animal management. That's not too high on their list unless it's an endangered species ... and then they'll just bring in the feds anyway.

[bearpaw]

Ray mentioned something like the status quo is pretty good, and I would agree. 

Yes, the status quo in terms of equipment is not bad. But like Ray said, and Sisu seconded, we need to find creative, supportable ways to reverse the recent trend of shorter and shorter time in the field.

I meant equipment, and I totally agree, it seems to me archers are taking some pretty good hits. Archers used to be very organized and that's why archers had good seasons. I usually buy archery deer, this year I went back to rifle deer, the archery season has been decreased in my area, there were no losses in the rifle hunt, and the muzzleloader has been increased. The muzzy needed increased as they were by far the most limited, but I think the rifle hunters should have shared in reductions with bowhunters. 

[bigbull94]

I guess I am old school,but a fixed blade has never let me down yet!I know of a couple guys who arrowed bulls with expandables and weren't impressed with penetration.They said they were awesome on deer,but for elk they pretty much sucked.There is some reasoning behind the law,I am sure!!!

[Lowedog]

Archers have and still have the most generous seasons.  If any group could afford to give up something so that another had more opportunity then it was archery hunters.  Muzzy has been seriously lacking in opportunity for a long time and I think it is fair to give that group more time. 

To me elk is draw only.  If I don't draw I'm not hunting as I don't really want to hunt spikes or cows.  I don't hunt the west side.

I also refuse to think there is some conspiracy to go draw only so that we all can be somehow managed through that type of system.  There has been a lot of hunters voicing that they want better quality hunts these days.  Funny thing is when the dept tries to manage towards that type of hunting then we start hearing all the complaints about lost opportunity. 

[let.it.fly]

i have noticed that there is a us vs them attitude with trad archers. not all but some. i shoot a compound and i have never heard anyone who shot a compound say anything bad about trad shooters, on the other hand i have heard plenty of malicious comments by trad shooters about compound users. like i said speaking in generalities. not everyone fits this mold. before you attack me you should know that i have great respect for those that shoot trad. im sure it takes alot more practice and skill then shooting a compound. im sure im not the only compound shooter that feels that way. i shoot alot of small tourneys where on sunday you are grouped(generaly) with people you dont know, so i feel i have a good grasp of what people think about our sport. you spend 4-5 hours with someone and you tend to hear about the opinions. for the life of me i cant understand why anyone in this sport would look down there nose at another. i see it all the time. you trad shooters are nothing like the freestlye shooters so for that you get a bravo zulu.

[Snapshot]

Muzzy has been seriously lacking in opportunity for a long time and I think it is fair to give that group more time.

I agree with that. My concern is that once dates are lost it is difficult to get them back, even if the harvest statistics show that an imbalance has developed.

I also refuse to think there is some conspiracy to go draw only so that we all can be somehow managed through that type of system. 

I hope that I am wrong.

i have heard plenty of malicious comments by trad shooters about compound users.

All of the people I hang out with shoot traditional bows. A couple of them also own compounds. When I hear anything at all said about their compounds it is good-natured ribbing with tongue planted firmly in the cheek.

On internet forums, on the other hand, I have read some bashing; and it is a two-way street.

[Lowedog]

I think it would be in every hunters interest to think of it all as hunting.  We are all hunters and should stand by one another when it comes to fighting for opportunity. 

I enjoy shooting traditional bows.  I have built a couple even.  When it comes to archery hunting though I will pick up my compound 9 times out of 10 at this point in time.  I love that I have the choice.

[colockumelk]

Snapshot pretty much said what I think. I think they would like to make it all permit only for big game. They can sell a ton of tags no problem and have already proven that. Take a look at this year's permit system. It's a step in that direction. Once they get the exact number of people exactly where they want them... then they can do with them as they see fit. It's as much about people management as revenue. Forget about animal management. That's not too high on their list unless it's an endangered species ... and then they'll just bring in the feds anyway.

Ray I'll have to disagree with you like I disagreed with Snapshot.  I think that no matter how bad the herd numbers and more importantly the herd ratios get they will stick with a general season to the bitter end.  Why???  Revenue!!!  Just look at the Yakima and Kittitas County Mule Deer Herds.  Since 2004 their numbers have been reduced by 50-60% and there is still a general season.  Furthermore they still give out rifle rut permits in those GMU's.  If they truly cared about managment it would be permit only.  The Colockum elk herd is another example.  Which I've beaten to death so I wont elaborate.  If they go to permit only they will LOSE revenue.  They can't stand that.  It's all about making as much money as possible.

In my opinon going to permit only would be conter-productive to their goals.  AKA Revenue. 

[Ray]

i cant understand why anyone in this sport would look down there nose at another

Yeah you got it wrong. That's why you cannot understand it. It's not a matter of arrogant superiority as you insisted. That's when the bickering and the continued disagreements really turn sour. It's that frame of mind that contributes to the negative attitude. Equipment disagreements is not an I'm better than you issue. It's an I believe "this way" is the highway to longer seasons more opportunities and I understand how the season was founded and respect the tradition of archery as a primitive activity and those roots are important frame of mind.

[Lowedog]

I found this quote from the interview with Chuck Adams interesting and relative to the conversation. 


"Commercialization in general (I don’t think) is a bad thing.  I was reading (and I wont mention any names) an article the other day in a magazine about a fairly well known bowhunter.  The guy writing the article makes a comment like "refreshingly this particular bow hunter is not in the commercial business in bowhunting."  And yet on the same page the same writer said that his all-time hero was Fred Bear.  I kind of shut one eye and I stopped reading it and thought, "now that's ironic."  On the one end this writer is saying refreshingly this guy isn't commercializing the sport by being 'part of the industry.'  Yet his number one hero is the guy who commercialized archery more than any other person.  Put archery on the map more than any other person by going out and getting liberal bow seasons in various states.  I was thinking "what's wrong with this thinking?"

Commercialization is not necessarily a bad thing.  Without Fred Bear (who's my hero as well) commercializing archery and selling great products, without him actively getting states to acknowledge the bow as a lethal hunting tool so seasons could be started and expanded - where would we be today?  I actually think that commercializing our sport has been the thing that’s put our sport on the map.  If nobody had ever commercialized it, we wouldn’t have liberal bow seasons.  We wouldn’t have the lobbying power of three million bowhunters in this country to keep the anti-hunters at bay, etc."

[PA BEN]

First, mechanical heads are not dependable. Fixed blades are. Simple as that. As for Compound vs Traditional goes let me tell you my story. I killed my first deer w/a Bear Kodak Mag. 55lb recurve bow, I then went to a 68lb long bow. I killed several deer and had some big bull elk to far past my range. Every now and then I would get a bad hit on a deer and lose that deer. I had the responsibility to the animals I was hunting not to wound them and make a clean kill. That being said, I went to compound instead of quitting bowhunting all together.
As far as the seasons getting pinched. I had no problem getting my deer in the first two weeks of bow season. I would go to the hunter meetings in Chewelah, a group of locals meeting to give ideas to the game dept. These meets would turn into bitch sessions from the gun hunters agents the bow hunters. Bow hunters had the best seasons, bowhunters would always fill there tags, bowhunter wound animals, etc.
I stud up as a bowhunter and told them we all need to stick together and lobby for hunting. I got cussed at and screamed at from the chairman running the meeting. Who was a gun hunter. I have no problem with gun hunting at all. But I will say that it's because of guys like these men in those meetings giving input to the game dept. got the seasons cut.
BTW, I don't have the time to bow hunt since I moved to the wet side, so I've gun hunted for the past 3 years. And I drew a elk tag this year to hunt the rut Sept. 20th to the 24th w/a gun. My

[Snapshot]

I got cussed at and screamed at from the chairman running the meeting. Who was a gun hunter.

Was his name Gary?