Soft mouth training, Help!

[one more]

My daughter's female Griffon is great in the house, with my grandson, their cats, their other dog (an Australian Shep), comes (in a moment) when called, loves finding birds, points and chases birds.  My daughter also has chickens and pheasants.  When a bird gets loose and everyone chases it the Griff catches it --- Hard.

She plays with the cats and even mouths them without hurting them.  They have probably taught her not to bite.  So how do you teach a dog to have a soft mouth with birds?

Any ideas might be helpful.   Diane

[Happy Gilmore]

My daughter's female Griffon is great in the house, with my grandson, their cats, their other dog (an Australian Shep), comes (in a moment) when called, loves finding birds, points and chases birds.  My daughter also has chickens and pheasants.  When a bird gets loose and everyone chases it the Griff catches it --- Hard.

She plays with the cats and even mouths them without hurting them.  They have probably taught her not to bite.  So how do you teach a dog to have a soft mouth with birds?

Any ideas might be helpful.   Diane

If you're not going to force fetch her, play fetch with a very hard, stiff bristle brush until mouthyness goes away. You can tie a wing to it with baling wire to give it scent and make her inclined to be a little more mouthy.

You can also teach "hold". Take 5 minutes a day for a week or sometimes longer in a quiet place and tell her "fetch" and then put a dowel in her mouth. She'll need to be restrained while you help her "hold" it. Tell her "hold". YOu'll probably need to hold it there for her because she'll want to spit it.

Many people add a little ear pinch to this and call it force fetch(which it is not) but, for most hunting dogs it is adequate or acceptable to return the bird to the blind or shoreline and drop it on the ground.

Either way, it should help with "mouthing" the bird. Combination of the brush while playing and working on hold should help clean it up in a couple weeks.

[Special T]

Happy gives good advise....  Just make sure no one gives the little guy a squeeker toy. 

[3dsheetmetal]

I had a black lab that would fetch eggs for me without ever breaking them. What i did was take a round stiff hair brush cut the handle off and tied some pheasant feathers on it.Good luck

[lokidog]

I heard that if the brush trick doesn't work to get a  2X2 with nails poking out all the way around and wrap some fabric around it.  Good luck.

[Happy Gilmore]

I heard that if the brush trick doesn't work to get a  2X2 with nails poking out all the way around and wrap some fabric around it.  Good luck.

Force fetch - no nails go in my dogs. It starts early. I allow pups to mouth my hands, alot. I encourage it. you teach gentle mouthing at very early puppy age. It is probably the first thing I teach a puppy. When they bite you with razor sharp teeth I don't tell them no, slap them or anything else. I just slide their lip between their teeth and my hand and let them bite themselves. You are doing nothing, no correction verbal or physical. they learn to be soft with their mouths very quickly-

but, it doesn't help with chewing stuff up- lost list at my house, shoes, throw pillows, blankets, socks, shirts, sweatshirts, towels....destructive bass-turds sometimes when I'm sleeping -- old enough they get whipped for that stuff.

[lokidog]

I heard that if the brush trick doesn't work to get a  2X2 with nails poking out all the way around and wrap some fabric around it.  Good luck.

Force fetch - no nails go in my dogs. It starts early. I allow pups to mouth my hands, alot. I encourage it. you teach gentle mouthing at very early puppy age. It is probably the first thing I teach a puppy. When they bite you with razor sharp teeth I don't tell them no, slap them or anything else. I just slide their lip between their teeth and my hand and let them bite themselves. You are doing nothing, no correction verbal or physical. they learn to be soft with their mouths very quickly-

but, it doesn't help with chewing stuff up- lost list at my house, shoes, throw pillows, blankets, socks, shirts, sweatshirts, towels....destructive bass-turds sometimes when I'm sleeping -- old enough they get whipped for that stuff.

That's great for a puppy, and I agree completely.  His dog doesn't sound like a pup and it has a soft mouth for everything else but the birds that haven't taught him to play nicely, like the cat has.  So what then?  My golden will fetch everything with a soft mouth except balls and sticks.  I've thought about an e-collar to ping her when I see she is starting to chew upon retrieving a ball.  Might be kind of rough to try that with the chickens though... 

[Happy Gilmore]

I heard that if the brush trick doesn't work to get a  2X2 with nails poking out all the way around and wrap some fabric around it.  Good luck.

Force fetch - no nails go in my dogs. It starts early. I allow pups to mouth my hands, alot. I encourage it. you teach gentle mouthing at very early puppy age. It is probably the first thing I teach a puppy. When they bite you with razor sharp teeth I don't tell them no, slap them or anything else. I just slide their lip between their teeth and my hand and let them bite themselves. You are doing nothing, no correction verbal or physical. they learn to be soft with their mouths very quickly-

but, it doesn't help with chewing stuff up- lost list at my house, shoes, throw pillows, blankets, socks, shirts, sweatshirts, towels....destructive bass-turds sometimes when I'm sleeping -- old enough they get whipped for that stuff.

That's great for a puppy, and I agree completely.  His dog doesn't sound like a pup and it has a soft mouth for everything else but the birds that haven't taught him to play nicely, like the cat has.  So what then?  My golden will fetch everything with a soft mouth except balls and sticks.  I've thought about an e-collar to ping her when I see she is starting to chew upon retrieving a ball.  Might be kind of rough to try that with the chickens though... 

ecollar will give you the wrong response-there- don't do that. You'll likely get the dog thinking that whatever is in its' mouth is causing the correction. Dogs must fully understand what corrections are for before getting a correction. You don't want him thinking anything in his mouth will cause him pain. It needs to be the complete opposite. that is the entire foundation of force fetching. You apply stimulation and it turns off when dog gets something in his mouth. This is how force fetch "FF" is applied. You can use a collar to FF, ear pinch, toe hitch etc. I personally use all three methods in different stages or, as a response to a dog who is anticipating the stimulation in one way or another.

My guys get to play with balls and sticks- I try to limit it but, they need to have some fun too. they both smash tennis balls and maul sticks. Although, both also know when were playing and when we're working. Always a very clear difference between the two. My female is 4, had probably thousands of live birds while training and has NEVER killed a bird that wasn't already weak or wounded. My little guy is more aggressive but, he has a nice firm hold- did some duck / diver training early with him and he holds tight but doesn't smash anything.

[follow maggie]

What I do with mine is put my hand in her mouth and grab hold of her lower jaw.  This is all I've ever done with her, and the one I had before her, and never had a problem with hard mouth.

[Happy Gilmore]

What I do with mine is put my hand in her mouth and grab hold of her lower jaw.  This is all I've ever done with her, and the one I had before her, and never had a problem with hard mouth.

That is basically how you begin with teaching hold. Some folks never FF their dogs and only teach "hold" (some may use a different term) It is sometimes all you need for many ambioutous hunting dogs. Playing dog games such as hunt tests and trials brings up different requirements. Having extremely high standards for your hunting partner(like a guide service) also brings with it much higher standards to keep clients happy and conserve game by not allowing it to be wasted. Proper FF brings along with it better mouth manners and a REQUIREMENT to retrieve anything Fido is told to retrieve.

Do FF'd dogs always have good mouth manners? no, even when FF'd properly some have bad habits. Those cases will require an experienced trainer to apply some "unpleasant" methods to help cure the problem.