lighted nocks

[boneaddict]

If you are shooting in normal hunting light Atroxus, there shouldn't be a need to light up your arrow to see where it goes.  A white or bright colored nock works quite well.   I believe people will take shots even later than they should resulting in even more unrecovered deer.  This is still not the reason I am against them, but I do believe it will happen.  Same as taking a bow that is capable of flinging an arrow 100 yards.  People take longer shots than they should.  Its what people do.  Many folks seem to lack the restraint needed to make good decisions.

[Atroxus]

If you are shooting in normal hunting light Atroxus, there shouldn't be a need to light up your arrow to see where it goes.  A white or bright colored nock works quite well.   I believe people will take shots even later than they should resulting in even more unrecovered deer.  This is still not the reason I am against them, but I do believe it will happen.  Same as taking a bow that is capable of flinging an arrow 100 yards.  People take longer shots than they should.  Its what people do.  Many folks seem to lack the restraint needed to make good decisions.

This is one of the reasons I will probably never try bow hunting. I couldn't see where my arrows went in a well lit archery range so I doubt I would be able to see where an arrow hits on a deer.

[scoyoc5]

I voted yes. And here's why....people keep talking about low light or shooting at dark. What about in the middle of the day when it sunny and 70? I've shot plenty of times in the middle of the day back at camp and because it bright where I'm standing and darker where my target is it's hard as hell seeing my arrrow.And if its going to help me recover these expensive arrows in practice or in hunting then I'm all for it. 

[Machias]

First off, you don't need to SEE where your arrow impacts, in fact you probably shouldn't SEE where it impacts.  It's like a golf shot, raising your head to see where the ball goes messes with your form.  You should be concentrating on the spot your trying to hit.  Then once the animal departs you can walk on over and see where the animal was standing, what hair is left at the scene, what does the blood trail look like, does the blood have bubbles in it, food matter, is it dark red, etc.  Then you start tracking your animal.  THIS is what is important, NOT whether your able to see the exact impact site or not.  Even on shots that I was unable to see exactly where the arrow impacted I had a good idea about where it hit and that coupled with what was left at the scene for me helps me recover animals.  I think most guys who are clamoring for lighted sight pins are the same guys who are flinging arrows at distances that are way too long.   

[Atroxus]

First off, you don't need to SEE where your arrow impacts, in fact you probably shouldn't SEE where it impacts.  It's like a golf shot, raising your head to see where the ball goes messes with your form.  You should be concentrating on the spot your trying to hit.  Then once the animal departs you can walk on over and see where the animal was standing, what hair is left at the scene, what does the blood trail look like, does the blood have bubbles in it, food matter, is it dark red, etc.  Then you start tracking your animal.  THIS is what is important, NOT whether your able to see the exact impact site or not.  Even on shots that I was unable to see exactly where the arrow impacted I had a good idea about where it hit and that coupled with what was left at the scene for me helps me recover animals.  I think most guys who are clamoring for lighted sight pins are the same guys who are flinging arrows at distances that are way too long.  

Hmm I thought this thread was about lighted nocks not sight pins. I would agree that lighted sight pins could be used to take shots in poor light conditions. I still don't see how lighted nocks could be though. While I respect the skill it takes to hunt using more traditional means I think everyone should be allowed to choose what level of technology they want or don't want to use. You guys may not like being called elitists, but when you start trying to tell people that only your way of doing things is the "right" way thats how it comes across. Personally I could care less what method someone uses to hunt as long as it is legal, and and the kill is humane. Ethical hunters will be ethical regardless of what gear they use, and unethical hunters will be unethical regardless. Trying to say that the gear is what makes them unethical makes about as much sense as saying guns cause crime.

[scoyoc5]

 

[DBZona]

A non ethical hunter is going to still be a non ethical hunter with or without these nocks.  

But WITH those nocks an otherwise ethical hunter may be tempted to take the risky shot! That is the point!

I was just this morning trying to remember the last time I lost an arrow that I'd loosed at an animal and I can't think of a single one in the past 18 years.

I agree with your point, the key being the temptation. An ethical hunter then has the choice of tarnishing his/her reputation and classifying his/herself as an unethical hunter.  What I was trying to point out is that no matter what is legalized or not, unethical hunters are here to stay and yes they are among us.  Here is an example:  A 180" deer is stoping broadside at 60 yards and will not come closer.  You have told yourself that you will not shoot beyond 40 yards.  Are you tempted to take the shot on the biggest deer you have ever seen just outside your range?  I think all of us would be tempted, but this is a defining moment in any hunters career, will you classify yourself as unethical by taking a shot well beyond your range and risk wounding an animal, or do you stand your ground and practice what you preach?  The temptation is always there, it is what we do with that temptation that defines us. When all is said and done the unethical ones are here to stay.  As a last note, in no way do I see how lighted nocks aid in the shot.  They do not help you aim, they do not keep your bow steady, they simply let you see where your shot is going and aid in finding your arrow.

[boneaddict]

I think everyone should be allowed to choose what level of technology they want or don't want to use.

Here is the problem with this statement.......the more technology increases, generally the higher your harvest rates go, and how do you manage a herd with increased harvest rates....you decrease the seasons.  A lighted nock is just one step in this evolutionary step in the chain.  No, it by itself will not decrease your season from 4 weeks in September down to two.   However, where do YOU draw the line at where this technology stops.   Is i tthe lighted nock, the lighted site pins, the laser finder on your bow.   EVERY item of technology can use the excuse .....cleaner, faster kill, better recovery, etc.   At what point are you all going to stand in front of your Wii at home with your bow and fake hunting, then run down to the store and buy a hunk of angus.    There is a point where this "Elitist" enjoys hunting, the skill it takes to harvest that deer, and I revel in the challenge to do so.   Honestly if every hunter on this site had the success that I do, our season would be MUCH shorter.......so yes, in a matter of speaking how I hunt and how everyone else hunts, and what technology they use, does effect everyone else.  
In a way, each user group is in competetion for the animals out there to harvest.   Your seasons will reflect it.  I would rather the WSB be lobbying for that versus a piece of technology that obviously isn't needed.   Yes thats my opinion and all its worth.

[Old Dog]

 

Well, except for this part, "Honestly if every hunter on this site had the success that I do, our season would be MUCH shorter......."  I'm not as much of a threat.

[Atroxus]

I think everyone should be allowed to choose what level of technology they want or don't want to use.

Here is the problem with this statement.......the more technology increases, generally the higher your harvest rates go, and how do you manage a herd with increased harvest rates....you decrease the seasons.  A lighted nock is just one step in this evolutionary step in the chain.  No, it by itself will not decrease your season from 4 weeks in September down to two.   However, where do YOU draw the line at where this technology stops.   Is i the lighted nock, the lighted site pins, the laser finder on your bow.   EVERY item of technology can use the excuse .....cleaner, faster kill, better recovery, etc.   At what point are you all going to stand in front of your Wii at home with your bow and fake hunting, then run down to the store and buy a hunk of angus.    There is a point where this "Elitist" enjoys hunting, the skill it takes to harvest that deer, and I revel in the challenge to do so.   Honestly if every hunter on this site had the success that I do, our season would be MUCH shorter.......so yes, in a matter of speaking how I hunt and how everyone else hunts, and what technology they use, does effect everyone else.  
In a way, each user group is in competetion for the animals out there to harvest.   Your seasons will reflect it.  I would rather the WSB be lobbying for that versus a piece of technology that obviously isn't needed.   Yes thats my opinion and all its worth.

I can see your points, and I agree that there are bigger fish to fry than lighted nocks on arrows. I don't think that because some people *choose* to handicap themselves on their hunts though that others should be required to limit themselves in the same ways though. Then again I also don't think game should be managed by the changing length of the seasons but directly by the amounts that are harvested. If it were up to me there would be X number of permits available in each unit each year based on how many animals in a given area could be harvested and still maintain a healthy population and healthy ratio of male:female animals. I would then have the seasons run until that limit had been reached or the end of that hunting year. Tags unfilled at the end of the year would roll over to the following season(and be subtracted form the pool of available tags), and hunters with a tag for a given animal/GMU would not be eligible to draw for another until they filled or returned the first one. This way hunters who wish to use traditional methods of hunting could spend as long as it takes to harvest an animal, or until they give up and turn their tag back in, while hunters that just want to get in get some meat for the freezer and get out could use whatever equipment they wanted.(within reason) I am just a newby hunter though, so I could just be talking out my ass.

[boneaddict]

Something you need to ask yourself......why do you bowhunt?  

Is it for the challenge......
Is it for the tradition.....
Is it for the longer seasons....
Is it for the "better" seasons.....
Is it because there are less people....

The forefathers of the sport argued for a seperate hunt for a "primitive weapon".  At what point does a weapon become less primitive.

Since that time, we have gone from being able to hunt with ALL THREE weapon types down to choosing ONE.  Now, we as hunters are pitted against each other for the mere fact we are in competetion for a piece of the pie.    

Why do you think our seasons keep getting shorter.........

Ask the muzzeloaders why they don't get a split season like we do and they used to do, at least for antlered game.   Why do we not get to harvest cows in certain areas any longer as bowhunters like we ALL USED to.  Why did we just lose a couple of really good late hunts in the last two years?

yes there are several factors, but I bet technology and harvest have a great deal to do with it.    

[boneaddict]

The only thing I see flawed is that is there are an x amount of hunters and only an x-1 amount of game.  Not everyone kills a deer because if they did, there wouldn't be a herd for much longer.   That is why the pie slice gets slimer every year.   As technology increases, or hunters get better, the harvest goes up.  Thats why the seasons get shorter as its the easiest way to manage a general hunt.  In a way, your logic will pan right into a draw only.  Then instead of hunting with "primitive gear", you are sitting at home watching football because you didn't draw a tag.   THAT is the next step in this evolutionary change.    No matter to me really as I've killed enough deer, I just assume photograph them, but I'd sure like some of the future generations to get a crack at it, and I do like the taste of venison.

You will also now be faced with other Apex predators eating that slice of pie, (wolves)

Technology like this website, the informational hi-way, GPS, etc. are already taking their toll.  Those are harder to manage.  Its easy to say no electronic devices on your weapons.   SOON, modern, muzzzel and Archery can all enjoy one week in the field together.  

[Atroxus]

The only thing I see flawed is that is there are an x amount of hunters and only an x-1 amount of game.  Not everyone kills a deer because if they did, there wouldn't be a herd for much longer.   That is why the pie slice gets slimer every year.   As technology increases, or hunters get better, the harvest goes up.  Thats why the seasons get shorter as its the easiest way to manage a general hunt.  In a way, your logic will pan right into a draw only.  Then instead of hunting with "primitive gear", you are sitting at home watching football because you didn't draw a tag.   THAT is the next step in this evolutionary change.    No matter to me really as I've killed enough deer, I just assume photograph them, but I'd sure like some of the future generations to get a crack at it, and I do like the taste of venison.

You will also now be faced with other Apex predators eating that slice of pie, (wolves) 

True I think that initially it would mean draw only permits. But if managed responsibly so that the herds could get back up in numbers I think that eventually it could get back to a point where number of animals would allow for hunters to get multiple permits in a year to keep numbers from getting out of control. I could be wrong, but then again maybe what WDFW really needs right now is an outside the box solution from someone who is not set in the ways of business as usual.

[boneaddict]

WDFW really needs right now is an outside the box solution from someone who is not set in the ways of business as usual

Can't argue with that



Honestly you are probably witnessing the end days of hunting.  I feel very fortunate to have gotten to do what I have. 

[Machias]

First off, you don't need to SEE where your arrow impacts, in fact you probably shouldn't SEE where it impacts.  It's like a golf shot, raising your head to see where the ball goes messes with your form.  You should be concentrating on the spot your trying to hit.  Then once the animal departs you can walk on over and see where the animal was standing, what hair is left at the scene, what does the blood trail look like, does the blood have bubbles in it, food matter, is it dark red, etc.  Then you start tracking your animal.  THIS is what is important, NOT whether your able to see the exact impact site or not.  Even on shots that I was unable to see exactly where the arrow impacted I had a good idea about where it hit and that coupled with what was left at the scene for me helps me recover animals.  I think most guys who are clamoring for lighted sight pins are the same guys who are flinging arrows at distances that are way too long.   

Hmm I thought this thread was about lighted nocks not sight pins. I would agree that lighted sight pins could be used to take shots in poor light conditions. I still don't see how lighted nocks could be though. While I respect the skill it takes to hunt using more traditional means I think everyone should be allowed to choose what level of technology they want or don't want to use. You guys may not like being called elitists, but when you start trying to tell people that only your way of doing things is the "right" way thats how it comes across. Personally I could care less what method someone uses to hunt as long as it is legal, and and the kill is humane. Ethical hunters will be ethical regardless of what gear they use, and unethical hunters will be unethical regardless. Trying to say that the gear is what makes them unethical makes about as much sense as saying guns cause crime.

I wasn't talking about lighted sight pins, just inadvertently typed that.  That is the reason everyone gives on wanting lighted nocks, to see where they hit the animal.  My mistake typing sights instead of nocks.  The rest of what I said applies.