Scoped Muzzleloaders

[baldopepper]

I have been going to Utah for the past several years for the BP hunt.  Utah is now virtually an "anything goes" state-scopes, rifled in-lines etc.. and the BP hunt has replaced the genl. rifle hunt in popularity.  I've had many hunters there brag about being able to accurately shoot out to 250 yards with their "muzzle loader" .  Frankly, in my opinion, it has now turned into nothing more than a another modern weapon hunt held earlier than the genl. rifle hunt.  Woods are jammed with hunters and I'm laughed at when they see I'm hunting with just a plain old muzzleloader with no scope and exposed nipple.  I love hunting with the BP as it's put the challange back into the hunt.  Determing the right load, practicing and practicing  and actaully going out and getting close enough to make a clean kill are what makes it special.  I've been hunting for over 50 years and I can guarntee you that allowing scoped guns will not do away "gut shot" animals.  A skilled hunter learns to properly use whatever weapon he takes in the field.  Just my opinion again, but if you want to use a modern weapon there is a season for it-leave the muzzle loader hunt  a true antique weapons hunt.   

[jstone]

If we go to scopes and all the more updated materials on muzzys, we might as well stop and have a modern hunt. They will almost reach out to a couple hundred yards. And yes there are lots of people that will push the envelope just like archery. Maybe there should be a more primitive season?? don't know the more modern things get the more people will take advantage.

[ThePascoKid]

I do have to agree with the arguement that it's getting harder to find inlines that are legal in Washington as far as the breech is concerned.  I ML hunt and I'd love to have a scope, but I would much rather keep the season as primitive as it is now and have less people in the field.  If they allow scopes we damn sure won't have the woods to ourselves anymore.

[Curly]

If you really want to hunt with a scoped rifle the answer is really simple...........hunt the modern firearm season with your scoped ML.

[jackelope]

This is probably not the way ML_Hunter was wanting this thread to go.
 

[bobcat]

I do have to agree with the arguement that it's getting harder to find inlines that are legal in Washington as far as the breech is concerned.  I ML hunt and I'd love to have a scope, but I would much rather keep the season as primitive as it is now and have less people in the field.  If they allow scopes we damn sure won't have the woods to ourselves anymore.

If they were to allow scopes for muzzleloader season, I would quit hunting with a muzzleloader.

And it's true there aren't a lot of choices when it comes to currently in production, Washington legal, inline muzzleloaders. There are three that I know of, one by T/C, one made by CVA, and one made by Traditions. BUT, there are also several sidelock muzzleloaders available. Thompsen/Center has the Hawken, Lyman has the Deerstalker and Great Plains, Cabelas also sells one called the Hawken, Traditions has at least one, and I'm sure there are a few more. So there are plenty of legal muzzleloaders available and I don't see that as a legitimate reason for eliminating the restrictions we currently have.

[BlackRidge]

I can see how making any changes would take away from some of the MF numbers (which would be nice in a sense), but at the cost of ruining traditional ML seasons.

The traditional aspect is what makes archery/ML enjoyable for most folk

 

[wapiti hunter2]

All the scope will do is give marginal shooters more opportunities to make more bad decisions at longer distances resulting in more, not fewer wounded animals.  Scoped ML is a bad idea. 

[wildmanoutdoors]

I think a big part of the primitive weapon rules is missed here. Timing! ML season is a time in which you can still get close and personal by calling or the like. The animals, especially bulls, which on the west side are shooters without special permits are still in there rut crazy ways. And not hanging alone or in bachelor groups. Thats why the seasons are timed. Bow season goes usaully during the beginning to peak rut and I believe its due to the fact that you need and can get closer. ML goes from peak to end or so. For the same reason.

So they let you hunt when you can actually get close and personal top take that animal ethically and responcibly to minimise wounding animals. Most animals that are wounded and not found are due to the hunter going beyond his or her capibilities. Imagine the success rate if the fact that ML's had no miss haps. Like wet powder, poor ignition, scopes for longer distances, ect.

There is a reason the rifle season goes after the rut. Just like a rifle rut tag, it would be a devestating success rate if there were no variables.

[bobcat]

wildman, I agree with whay you're saying but not sure I agree with this: 

ML goes from peak to end or so

You really think so? In my experience the muzzleloader season starts right at the end of the rut. But I maybe haven't hunted enough different areas and gotten into enough elk to really say for sure.

[woodswalker]

I am not a muzzle hunter.

I would argue that your claim that a scope is a safety enhancement is not a valid arguement. I have never used a scope on a modern rifle to confirm anything. Before I raise my rifle, I have verified all I need to know to feel safe enought to even consider raising my barrel. Binoculars are your way to "confirm" your target, not a scope. Additionally, if a scope is needed to keep guys from shooting button bucks instead of does as you have suggested, these hunters need to get re-educated about how to confirm their quarry prior to raising a gun.  

 

[Skillet]

FYI-
I've sent an email stating my support of the existing ML rules in WA to the addresses provided by ML_HUNTER, with the intent to minimize the impact of his lobbying.  PM me for the body of the email, if you wish to send it as I did.  Or just send your own...

[CanvasGear]

Not to be rude but isnt your letter to WDFW mostly a copy and paste of Randy Wakemans article?

CG

[wildmanoutdoors]

wildman, I agree with whay you're saying but not sure I agree with this: 

ML goes from peak to end or so

You really think so? In my experience the muzzleloader season starts right at the end of the rut. But I maybe haven't hunted enough different areas and gotten into enough elk to really say for sure.

Ya, it does start more at the end. But different areas can have a different timing. Its a bad statement but just trying to show another reason. Kinda why I put "or so" in there. But there definately easier to get on during ML.

[Blsum]

James

I'm pretty sure this isn't they way you had intended for this thread to go. I have found in the few years I've been hunting with my muzzle loader that the people who choose to shoot a muzzle loader are very passionate about their sport. But I have to admit that I agree with everyone else. I choose to use a muzzle loader for the challenge, and I'm glad I changed over. I personally don't want to see scopes allowed on muzzle loaders. For that matter I was surprised that wdfw made it legal for us to use copper jacketed bullets. We should be thankful for what we do have to use. Like fiber optic sights, and in-line's.