good day 4 the tribe

[6x6rack]

I'm a native american from the westside and I've had the opportunity to work for my tribes wildlife management dept as well as assisting some of the other tribes and WDFW with big game projects.

I think Coastal is more than qualified to answer a simple yes or no question after reading Colockums report, which is scientifically supported and even more indepth than some WDFW studies. He obviously works with more than one tribe on wildlife related issues. Says he cared deeply about the herds and their health.

Again, Yes or no from and someone participating in Indian Wildlife. Should the Yakima tribe be killing all the big bulls out of the Colockum herd?

[TikkaT3-270Shortmag]

The natives have a bad reputation not sure why.  I have been around alot of natives here in Washington and in Alaska, and I will tell you they have a great appreciation for hunting.  And they dont waste a drop of anything!! When I went to Alaska they wanted me to eat moose head soup I had to pass on that.  They had caught some pike and they even cook up the gut.  For the management part it in their hands and the states, all of us have our own opinion on how things should be managed but we are not educated on wildlife management.  If we were we would be working for the Department of Fish and Wildlife.  I did an internship with the DFW and learned alot of stuff.  I would suggest that you guys go volunteer your time they are always looking for volunteers.  This is a way you can make your voice heard.  On the other hand im not saying natives are perfect I just know what I have experienced im sure there are lots that break and bend the rules.  Anyways if you guys can try to go volunteer your time then you get inside and you can voice your concerns.

[Coastal_native]

Understandable to those who wouldn't hunt like I do...but like I said, i only really trophy hunt for myself, the animals i harvest for others I wouldn't necessarily consider trophy animals...just opportunistically.

Lowe,

We are issued tags...only one at a time, unless using the DH tag, then we can have at most 2 tags on our person.  We report our harvest to the Northwest Indian Fisheries commission along with the other tribes around here, they total it by GMU and share it with the state (without disclosing which tribes are harvesting in which GMU though, i think that has to do with bad blood between the state/tribes...we don't want the state to find out we're not actually harvesting animals in a certain GMU for fear they will play the "if you don't use it you lose it" card).  We also have annual WDFW/Tribal technical meetings where we discuss research projects and who has the funding to cover population monitoring in certain GMU's.

[Coastal_native]

6x6rack,

No...no one should be killing "all" the bulls out of the Colockum heard.  I didn't make that clear in my response, sorry.

[6x6rack]

Coastal,

So given that answer, which is the right one, I have another question.

As someone who participates in Tribal Game Management, if you were to write a letter to the Yakima Tribe encouraging them to begin participating in rebuilding the Colockum herd and participate with non tribal hunters in game management what would it say. I'd like to hear specifics.

[Lowedog]

Understandable to those who wouldn't hunt like I do...but like I said, i only really trophy hunt for myself, the animals i harvest for others I wouldn't necessarily consider trophy animals...just opportunistically.

Lowe,

We are issued tags...only one at a time, unless using the DH tag, then we can have at most 2 tags on our person.  We report our harvest to the Northwest Indian Fisheries commission along with the other tribes around here, they total it by GMU and share it with the state (without disclosing which tribes are harvesting in which GMU though, i think that has to do with bad blood between the state/tribes...we don't want the state to find out we're not actually harvesting animals in a certain GMU for fear they will play the "if you don't use it you lose it" card).  We also have annual WDFW/Tribal technical meetings where we discuss research projects and who has the funding to cover population monitoring in certain GMU's.

Thanks CN.  I appreciate your contribution to this subject.  I think it says a lot about you that you have maintained a calm level attitude in your responses here when I could see someone in your position becoming defensive and combative.  Thank you for that!  

[Coastal_native]

6x6rack

Not to sound like a chicken*&%! , but I think I'll tread lightly here, I am, as I've said, distant to the situation.  First...I think the they would have to be convinced there is currently a problem...and either they don't know there is, or they honestly don't believe there is.  So, you would probably have to convince them that it would be beneficial to participate in a comanagement strategy...so that everyone can harvest big bulls without resentment.

I think sensativity awareness might be another thing I would address, to promote good PR for the tribes...Don't put yourself in a situation where you are causing resentment, by harvesting 6 trophy bulls...in one area...in one season.  Wealthy people harvest 6 trophy bulls a year and probably don't even eat all the meat, they just don't do it in one area...I am refering to people that can afford quality tags in multiple states.

Those are some of the thoughts I have...

[b23]

Coastal Native

Maybe you can help me understand something I have always wanted an answer to.

I have always been lead to believe Native Americans are spiritual and in touch with the heart beat of mother earth and all her wonderful animals.  That they only took what they needed to survive.  Never killed in vain and would only take a proud, prestigious, trophy animal in a fashion that showed GREAT respect to that animal.  That the "style" of the hunt and the death of said animal would be spiritual and have great meaning.

My question is this.  If native american indians wish to lay claim to ANY of these animals for the sake of "Culture" why aren't any of you hunting these animals in a "Cultural" manner that is "Native" to your people?  Because all I ever see is modern times machinery and weaponry and it appears, atleast to me, these animals are being taken simply because you can.  There, IMO, seems to be nothing "spiritual" about it.

Not trying to ruffle your feathers, no pun intended, but I would truely like to understand this much better than I obviously do.

[tlbradford]

Coastal Native

Maybe you can help me understand something I have always wanted an answer to.

I have always been lead to believe Native Americans are spiritual and in touch with the heart beat of mother earth and all her wonderful animals.  That they only took what they needed to survive.  Never killed in vain and would only take a proud, prestigious, trophy animal in a fashion that showed GREAT respect to that animal.  That the "style" of the hunt and the death of said animal would be spiritual and have great meaning.

My question is this.  If native american indians wish to lay claim to ANY of these animals for the sake of "Culture" why aren't any of you hunting these animals in a "Cultural" manner that is "Native" to your people?  Because all I ever see is modern times machinery and weaponry and it appears, atleast to me, these animals are being taken simply because you can.  There, IMO, seems to be nothing "spiritual" about it.

Not trying to ruffle your feathers, no pun intended, but I would truely like to understand this much better than I obviously do.

This was already answered in a previous post.  I don't think you understand Indian philosophy very well.  I pray before every meal with my family and thank God for providing the food I am about to eat.  That is a pretty simplified way of looking at it, but it is a fair comparison.  Running a herd of buffalo off a cliff was effective in obtaining meat for sustenance back in the day.  They were thankful for the food, but this it was a means to an end.  Not every kill has to be for a spritual ceremony.

[6x6rack]

Coastal,

I think you should go for it. Do some research, get some facts, and put together an open letter that you post here on the site that encourages The Yakimas to begin hunting the Colockum herd in a way that contributes to it's stability and success. You are uniquely suited as a Tribal member, someone involved in Tribal game management, who has an obvious ability to apply some common sence and rational thinking to a charged issue. You are also the first Indian with such credentials who has had the Balls to state the obvious... the Yakimas shouldn't be killing all the big bulls from the colockum herd given their current state. I applaud you for having a set, and caring about the elk enough to say it like it is.

So how about it, how about starting some progressive forward momentum on this issue. There are alot of people following this thread, many very passionate, some pissed, some disgusted but mostly those things because they care. How about if we turn the corner here and see if we can be the start of getting this fixed?

So hell, swallow hard, put the pen to paper and lets see what an Indian who "get's it" and cares would say to a group of Indians who apparently don't.

[b23]

Ok, so lets take out of the equation all the animals that are killed for any other reason and just talk about the ones that are killed for the "claimed" "cultural" and or "spiritual" purposes.  I say "claimed" because nearly everytime I ask, hear or read about anything pertaining to these kills I usually get the same answer and that answer usually gets blanketed by the fact said animal was killed for some "spiritual" or "cultural" purpose.  I don't recall ever hearing or reading about a native american indian/s, when asked about killing an animal in a controversial area, saying they killed said animal simply because they can and wanted to or that they were hungry.  It's more generally explained as some sort of spiritual, religious or cultural thing.

So taking that into account.  I'll ask the same question but with a more narrowed scope.  Why aren't these animals that are killed in the name of native american culture, taken in a manner more representative to traditional native american indian hunting?

You are absolutely correct.  I don't understand indian philosophy very well at all which is why I'm asking this question.

[tlbradford]

That is a fair question.

[runamuk]

Coastal Native

Maybe you can help me understand something I have always wanted an answer to.

I have always been lead to believe Native Americans are spiritual and in touch with the heart beat of mother earth and all her wonderful animals.  That they only took what they needed to survive.  Never killed in vain and would only take a proud, prestigious, trophy animal in a fashion that showed GREAT respect to that animal.  That the "style" of the hunt and the death of said animal would be spiritual and have great meaning.

My question is this.  If native american indians wish to lay claim to ANY of these animals for the sake of "Culture" why aren't any of you hunting these animals in a "Cultural" manner that is "Native" to your people?  Because all I ever see is modern times machinery and weaponry and it appears, atleast to me, these animals are being taken simply because you can.  There, IMO, seems to be nothing "spiritual" about it.

Not trying to ruffle your feathers, no pun intended, but I would truely like to understand this much better than I obviously do.

I'm not really native.....well I am but records were burned......anyway the entire process of hunting for me is far more spiritual than any church service or religious belief....there is no way to prove ones spiritual connection through facts and figures....I use a rifle I cant pull a bow ...and still I see the entire thing as way more than just killing an animal since I haven't killed one yet thats not even in my own equation.....its also why I quit posting about my own hunts because they are all far too personal and not something I care to be judged on.
sorry this just sort of struck me ....

[Coastal_native]

b23,

I'm not sure it matters at this point, but I at least owe you a response to your last question.  Some of our traditional/historical methods of hunting would probably be considered inhumane and would only give enviro groups more ammunition to use against hunters.  IMO, the cultural aspect of hunting that remains for tribal members is that historically we were always able to hunt...unrestricted...when we wanted to, whether it be for want/or need.  Obviously that isn't possible anymore, so we've incorporated some modern management practices (bag limits and seasons).  Also, Elk has always been a traditional food for us, and since we have the ability to retain that part of our culture...it makes it that much better.  So in summary, culturally we can still go to the forest when we want and/or need to and salvage a piece of our culture (being able to eat a traditional food), as long as we do it within our regulations.  Trophy hunting is not a real big part of our culture and it is something that has evolved as we've taken on a Eurocentric way of life...but in some cases it is the best management decision. 

6x6rack,

that is a great proposal, but I would definitely need to do my research before I put my reputation at risk doing something like that.  Also, thank you for the vote of confidence concerning my credentials, but let me clarify... I've worked for our dept of Natural Resources for the last 6 years which started immediately after I graduated from college.  For the first four years I worked for the wildlife dept working with black bear and elk.  I had the opportunity to help out on a few other WDFW/tribal coops.  I've since took a different position within our DNR, but continue to help out on our wildlife projets.  I have aspirations of someday becoming the natural resource director or hunting policy spokesperson (if the position gets created).  So, if I gave you the impression that I was a renown game manager, I apologize.  What gives me a unique perspective is that my father was nonindian and my mother is indian.  I have always been in the middle of the tribal hunting dispute, even amongst my friends and family, but I have never picked a side.  IMO, there are no sides.  We are teamates in a competition where winning means we will always be able to hunt, however you have to be able to differentiate between your teamates and your opponents.  I know it might not seem like it all the time, but I truly believe that tribes are not your real opponents.

[BAR C3]

Man where was all this love and peaceful replies when I was defending the Natives last month as a White guy? Good to see some productive conversation on this subject!