good day 4 the tribe

[Coastal_native]

Not to interupt the discussion...but natives are not treated differently because they are a different race...natives are treated differently because the US government entered into a treaty with them and made certain promises that included the reservation of the right to hunt.  Although, I do understand that it's some people's opinion that the treaties are not valid or are outdated.  And I do understand that no other races that were conquered had the luxury of signing a treaty.  However, IMO this argument has little to do with racial inequality...because we're not getting special privileges because we are a different race...we are getting treated differently and we are a different race, the two are just unrelated.

[colockumelk]

I agree 6x6rack.  Not all tribes are at fault.  Unfortunately since the Yakamas don't want to play nice or do their part then it will most llikely come down to legal action such as you described.  It has taken me a couple years on this issue to come to the conclusion that it is a racial discrimination issue.  People who think otherwise are either okay with racism or are naive.  What you described is exactly how we WILL and CAN win.  It may take 10 or 15 years but all good things take time and effort.  I can't think of a single judge that would risk his career or reputation when presented with constitutional law that different regulations based SOLELY upon race is okay.  

I find it interesting that Yakamas on here cry about their treaty like its some sort of constitution and how their rights can't be taken away but when you bring this article up they never have a response.  So if that treaty is SO important I'd like to see the entire thing enforced.  Especially Article 9.  Which says:

ARTICLE 9.
The said confederated tribes and bands of Indians desire to exclude from their reservation the use of ardent spirits, and to prevent their people from drinking the same, and, therefore, it is provided that any Indian belonging to said confederated tribes and bands of Indians, who is guilty of bringing liquor into said reservation, or who drinks liquor, may have his or her annuities withheld from him or her for such time as the President may determine

That being said I think article 9 is unconstitutional as well because it descriminates upon race.  If an Indian that is 21 years of age or older wants a beer he should legally be able to drink a beer.  It would be nice if the YPD would start enforcing this.  Or how about every Yakama that gets a DUI.  Does he continue to receive his government money?  

Its unfortunate that it has to come to this.  If the other team would play nice and help out when it comes to managment or ethical hunting I don't think anyone would care.  But I for one get sick and tired of reading about the Yakamas slaughtering bulls up in the Nile feeding station or at oak Creak feeding stations.  Or how they put gates up at Mud Lake to keep the Yakamas out so the deer could winter in peace.  Its too bad because my family used to drive up around Mud Lake in the winter and look at all the deer and elk.  You want to talk about losing rights.  Didn't I have the right to go look at elk and deer?  Well now I cant because they put up gates to keep the Indians out.  I used to be able to go to more than one feeding station to look at elk too but they had to close some down to public viewing because the Yakamas kept shooting bulls at them.  For "ceremonial purposes" of course because God knows they can't eat cows apparantly.  

BTW for some on here I am not racists.  This isnt racism its the opposite.  Its about ethical and responsible game managment and its about equal opportunity.  Also the things I've mentioned are facts not some casual rumor I heard.  

[colockumelk]

Coastal I agree that there was a treaty and it gave the Tribes the right to hunt.  But there is nothing in the treaty that says the Yakamas have the right to hunt 4/7 365.  If the Yakamas still were allowed to hunt on their reservation however they wanted and were allowed to hunt OFF the reservation but if so had to follow all WDFW game regulations would that still be giving them the right to hunt?  I guarantee you that no one on here would complain if the treaty was ratified and allowed each Yakama native a free hunting license and that they could each kill 1 buck, 1 doe and 1 bull and 1 cow. 

Also it IS discrimination based on race.  Here's why.  Each and every single tribe receives ALOT of federal money and grants as well as from the State.  This is fine I have no problem with that.  Each city in the US also receives that.  BUT....  if the tribes are going to take Federal and State money then when they are off the reservation they should play by the same rules that we do.  If a tribe is willing to stop taking Federal and State money/funds then they can do whatever they want.  I think if the tribes want the money then they should play by the same rules that I have to play by.  6x6rack has a legitimate point when it comes to the funding.   

[mebco09]

Colockum-

A couple of questions when you get the chance-

When did the Boldt decision change to include anything other than fishing?  It appears that the original ruling and the treaty was based on fishing only.  

Has anyone looked into how this situation could be legally addressed?  The RMEF has attorneys that do this kind of thing.  I know they are a habitat based organization, but they also have people working on the wolf thing in the rockies, and that is not far off from this government sanctioned poaching.  

What is the background about the Klikitat Meadows hunt?  Is this the genesis of the yakimas hunting the colockum?  

I have some thoughts to share, but wanted some clarification before I spouted off.  Thanks

[6x6rack]

Coastal,

Just two people on different sides of the coin looking at the same issue. I dont see anywhere where Tribes were given the right to ignore and circumvent State or Federal law while practicing their treaty rights. The two are seperate issues WHEN APPLIED TO OFF THE RESERVATION.

Lets assume I concede Tribes have rights to half the harvest ( I dont agree with this but lets give you a point as the last court ruling seemed to side with you), and as a soviergn nation within our Nation, tribes have the right to abide by their own law within the confines of that nation, in this case the Reservation.

Now, anything outside the boundaries of that nation, or Reservation, are subject to the laws of the United States of America and State of Washington. Regarding hunting on public, State, or Federal land there are strict rules in place that apply to everyone equally as Citizens or guests. The Tribes are breaking these rules and thus poaching when they do, as indians are equal to every other citizen when they are off the reservation. If Indians break the law outside the rez, they are subject to the same penalties you and I are. Since nowhere in any Treaty, or the Boldt decision, does it say, imply, or grant special priveledges outside the reservation, and since Indian arrests are not being made regarding game violations happening on public land off the reservation, one must conclude special privledges are currently being granted to a Class (Indians) that are not being granted to anyone else, based solely on their race. Constituanal law prohibits State or Federal funding to any such class. We will win this.

[Coastal_native]

Colockum,

I think most people on this thread have a legitimate point, but I also like to inerject from time to time.  It's getting hard to keep up though, you guys write too much and have too many legimate points  I like engaging 6x6rack, you can tell in his tone that he is pasionate about the topic and wants change...I wish he would have took me up on my fishing offer, we could have put all of this on the backburner and just had fun...and maybe his brush would have gotten just a little narrower as a result.  

As for the funding, I'm not sure about the state, at least in our situation.  The feds have given the tribes the ability to regulate hunting in their treaty ceded area.  The feds have also given the state the responsibilty of regulating hunting within the state.  These areas overlap in many places and thats where comanagement should be a priority.  Obviously not all tribes are interested in comanagement.  Maybe if the feds gave the state the authority to regulate tribal hunting in the treaty ceded area things would be different, but i'm sure thats realistic.  

By the way, I saw your PM...we got skunked again, but did see some cows.  We had the heard to ourselves for one day, but apparently someone else caught on to us.  Not sure where the two branch bulls went, we might have not been able to see them in the trees.

[Coastal_native]

6x6rack,

Very good points and logic.  Although, I still don't think your interpretation is correct.  We will all win this..."this" meening hunting for generation to come.

[colockumelk]

Alright Coastal Native you claimed to be a "Indian Tracker" and failed. So Im going to have to put your Indian Tracker status on probation. If you can't get it done next weekend for your budy I might have to take your Tracker Card.     Just kidding I bet you had fun. 

You make some legitimate points as well.  which is what makes this debate so much fun.  You keep it classy and when asked a question you answer it and give your opinion on it instead of deflecting it and calling names.  I'm glad you don't agree 100% otherwise this thread would be boring.  Youre doing pretty good.  Just don't take stuff personally and do your best to win and we'll have fun.  If someone random comes on and calls you a name just ignore it and only pay attention to the people who have serious points.  That's what I do.  Its also alright to say I'm getting pissed and then take a break and cruise the other threads.  i do that from time to time especially when guys like MB are on here.  Anyways I'm glad you found this site. 

[Special T]

6X6  In no way did i mean to back down.... If you are willing to be the test case for the rest of us I'll donate to your attorney fund... Just know this... You have to be very carful when you engage an opponent that has unlimited funds in comparison to you... RMEF or the NRA or whom ever usually only represent people when there is an opportunity to set or change case precedence... That means if you are to engage the Yaks you better have everything diled before you play Cowboys and Indians.  If yo are serious about engaging the Yaks then i HIGHLY recommend the book The Art of War By Tsun Tsue... It is a strategy boo that is applicable to war, politics and law... 

[Coastal_native]

Colockum,

i thought you might take a shot at me publically...however this elk season has 7 more days left and I'm determined.  We're gonna change it up and head for the high country, maybe try to pick off some of those cowardly park elk as they come out to steel food from some of our honest hard working elk...It seems you have two options during MF. 1) Choose an area with fewer elk and you will see fewer hunters 2) Choose an area with lots of elk and you will have to fight the masses.  Most people don't know about the secret option...3) find yourself a native tracker who has the ability to slip into "ninja mode"...by the end of the week we will be walking amongst the heard...mark my words.  It's really fun to hunt with an inexperienced hunter though, they get enjoyment out of things that make me say "%$*#".  I called in a bull for a friend during archery season and he missed twice at about 20 yds (way over estimated the distance), it would have been his first bull...after I heard the arrows fly I came up to him thinking he hit it, when I found out he missed I through my hat down and said "&$*%".  He just laughed and said "you should have seen that bull come out and start throwing chunks of sod in the air with his antlers...that was awesome."

Special T,

You sent 4 PM's before I even knew what the heck they were...thanks for the comments and I'm interested to open the discussion about you know what...I feel there would be an overwhelming consensus amongst hunters.


Oh yeah, I forgot this thread had a particular topic so....um...er....I disagree with what ever the last person said...good point though.

[colockumelk]

Hey Coastal if you wanna go super ninja mode you should cover yourself in elk poop.  Just sayin it might help.  Who needs scent-lok when you have all natural organic elk poop.      At the very least you should convince your buddy to do it and see if he does.  I can't help but take pot shots at people I have to do something to boost my self esteem.   

I know that frustration thing.  I took my littlist brother hunting in a late season elk hunt.  I saw a dozen cows go passed me but were out of range for my bow.  I saw them go in the reprod and right up this trail that leads to where I put my brother.  When they got to about where my brother was they came flying out of there like crazy.  So I was all stoked because I figured my brother shot one.  So I gave it some time and walked on over there and there's my brother sound asleep cradling his bow like it was his date.   

[Coastal_native]

that's hilarious about your brother...and don't act like you've never tried the poop thing...any elk hunter who's ever been out hunting by themselves has at one point or another thought about it...looked over their shoulder to make sure nobody was looking...and preceded to rub poop on their face, or roll around in bull urine.  I think I've even entertained the idea of dressing up like an elk and seeing how close I could get...I'm still trying to work out the kinks.

[Little Dave]

Funny you mention that, got some in an empty bottle the other day and brought it home.  Really close to the same color as the green tea stuff my wife likes to get from Costco.  Had it sitting there on the table and she almost threw it out.

[colockumelk]

that's hilarious about your brother...and don't act like you've never tried the poop thing...any elk hunter who's ever been out hunting by themselves has at one point or another thought about it...looked over their shoulder to make sure nobody was looking...and preceded to rub poop on their face, or roll around in bull urine.  I think I've even entertained the idea of dressing up like an elk and seeing how close I could get...I'm still trying to work out the kinks.

To be honest the thought had cross my mind about being dressing up like an elk with elk urine on the hide.  But I just didn't want to end up like this guy.   

Deer Attack

[MLhunter1]

I was huntin on a farmers field I met last weekend with a rifle huntin buddy.  The farmer told us a few years back the game dept and a tribe guy showed up and asked if they could use his field to "help" the elk.  So he said yes, the elk love to hang out in his field.  So the next day they tranqualized a few bulls and cows and collared them.  This time it was all tribal guys, no dfw officers.  So the farmer asked just what were they up to and they said these were GPS tracking collars for tribal hunters.  The tribe goes huntin with a handheld GPS that has the elk marked on it to make it easier for them.  The farmer got mad and told them never to come back.  So not only do they get to hunt big long seasons they get to track the elk with GPS in this area.  Plus the helicopter flyin around was a state helicopter he said.  So we are also spending money to help the tribe kill animals?