Finds birds no problem, not much point

[10Key]

So, I've been working with Chukar the last couple of weeks on some live bird training. The rascal has no issue scenting the birds and finding them, he just doesn't point much. As soon as he locates a bird, he tries  to see it and then lunges at it once he makes a visual. I have him on a check cord the entire time by the way...I command whoa as soon as I know he's on the bird.

Any ideas to specifically work on the "pointing"'aspect of it? Am I missing something?

[Shannon]

I would get some remote launchers and launch the birds as soon as you can tell he makes scent. It won't take long before he starts pointing. Or get out and get him on as many wild birds as you can get. Also, I would stop Whoaing him into a point. Just let him figure it out on his own with a lot of bird exposure is the best way with less problems you can create.

[SpringerFan]

I have also heard that having them point under "fake" conditions (on a checkcord) with planted birds is not good. I agree you should get him on real birds and let his instinct kick in. Good luck.......they are smarter than us

[10Key]

Thanks for the tips...good info

[jetjockey]

10key...  Time for some launchers. Dogs will point planted birds off a checkcord with no problem.  I would take your pup into a field away from the house.  You don't want the pup to get used to a specific area.  You can simulate a wild environment with birds in a launcher.   Work the pup into the launcher and as soon as you can tell it smells the bird, launch it.  It will learn pretty quick to point instead of flush the bird.  You can use quail, pigeons, or chucker.  Id get whatever is the cheapest...... You might want to start some barrel work with the dog as well.  Get yourself an industrial plastic barrel and build a stand for it.  Put your pup on the barrel and hold him on it until he begins to relax and stand on the barrel.  It will be a wrestling match at first, but eventually he will figure it out.  You can style him up on the barrel as well.  When hes standing on it, rub under his tail and puch it towards the 12 oclock position.  You can also just tab him under the chin so he learns to stand tall and proud.  Once hes comfortable on the table, have someone throw a pigeon towards him that will fly off.  Hold him so he doesn't chase it and command "whoa".    After a while, when enough birds have been tossed infront of him, he will learn to relax and enjoy watching the birds fly.  Heres a couple of pictures to give you an example

Heres the incorrect way to hold the dog, the correct way to hold the dog, and the finished product on point.

[10Key]

jetjockey: Great pointers, I am headed to the field (game preserve in EWA) this weekend. I will put these techniques to use...The barrel thing is very interesting and makes perfect sense. I will be sure to follow up on my main training thread with pics.

[jetjockey]

10key

Be careful hunting with him.  You don't want your dog to learn that as long as the bird flys, it gets shot.  Don't shoot any birds that he doesn't point.  If you do, you might teach him that its ok to bump birds and take them out.  Since he hasn't been pointing too much, this is even more important.  It sucks, but it is what it is.  I had to watch a few quail fly off last year that I paid to kill, just because my pup bumped them and didn't point them.  Several times it wasn't even her fault, she couldn't smell them and accidentaly ran over them.  Several times, she just crowded the birds and accidentally put them in the air.  None the less, I didn't kill the birds.    The pup needs to know that the reward for doing it right, is a dead bird.  If he doesn't do it correct, then he doesn't get the bird.  The sad thing about this practice is you won't kill as many birds.  The cool thing is that when your pup is doing it correct on a consistant basis, you will eventually miss.  The look that my pup gives me when I miss is hilarious.  She basically says "look, I did it right, why the hell cant you hit the bird"....  This is where it can get a bit tricky if you hunt with people that are hell bent on killing birds, and not as interested in the dog work.  Killing birds over a pointing dog that doesn't point the birds can do a lot of damage to the training.  A lot of pointing dog guys don't care very much about the dogs bird work, they just want to kill birds.  Thats fine, if all you want to do is kill birds.  But, if the dog work is just as important, or more important then actually killing birds, then you will have to be very careful who you hunt with.  Some guys just don't understand why you wouldn't kill a bird when it gets in the air.  IMO, this is the reason a lot of guys use labs for upland.  You don't really have to train them, they stay close, and they flush birds.  BUT, I don't care what the lab guys say, there is no way they can hold a candle to well trained big running pointing dog in the upland world.  The pointing dogs are built to cover lots of ground, very fast, for a long time.  The retrievers just arn't built to do what a good pointing dog can do.