Fawn Mortality!!!

[colockumelk]

Hopefully you answer the poll before you read this post and cheat.  Here is an interesting note.  Down here in Alabama they just did a fawn mortality study.  In this study they found that 80% of fawns that are lost, are lost due to coyotes.  Missouri State also did a study that found almost exactly the same thing.  I find it interesting that most people on here blame cougars for the loss of deer numbers.  Not saying that they don't play a part but I think coyotes do far more damage.  Now heres another thing to ponder and maybe someone knows the answer.  I wonder who kills more fawns and calves each year.  Coyotes or Bears.  I tried searching for a study on this but couldn't find one.  I only found studies about fawn mortality and coyotes.  So what I'm saying is go shoot some coyotes boys. 

[Axle]

Down here in Alabama they just did a fawn mortality study.

Up here in WA it varies by region. Most fawns and calves are killed by predators but it still varies by region.

[carpsniperg2]

Do they have the coug populations down there to involve them in the study? I would think we have way more cats, then down there. But i am not sure. Cats do play a very large part on deer and elk predation. For fawns, yotes might take more then the cougs. But as far as total numbers. I don't see a yote taking more deer then a coug each year. Bears/yotes/cougs all do play a big part of the fawn mortality.

[270Shooter]

I don't care what the studies say, I chose sasquatch...that *censored* is hell on fawns.

[DoubleJ]

I would have thought it was winter weather 

[NWBREW]

Hopefully you answer the poll before you read this post and cheat.    Down here in Alabama   

Why do you ask a question like that and then say down here in Alabama? Is there as many Cats down there as up here in Washington?

Nation wide coyotes maybe....up here I would say cats. 

[Snookmonster]

Bobcats are also detrimental to deer populations. Although it is rare that a bobcat would attack or kill a healthy adult deer, they do kill newborn fawns during late spring and early summer.

[bullrider97]

Coyotes hands down. I've even seen them hunt in groups on the eastside. Not as many cats on the eastside either, so maybe that makes a difference-

Same way in Northern Idaho where I grew up. 

[bobcat]

It only makes sense that coyotes would kill more than anything else, just because there are far more coyotes than cougars or bears.

[wayner]

It only makes sense that coyotes would kill more than anything else, just because there are far more coyotes than cougars or bears.

 

[Humptulips]

 I live here in GH county and spend a lot of time in the field for the last 40+ years. I'm a trapper and a hunter so I'm out all fall and winter. Deer numbers are down severely to the point where it's getting to be a novelty to see one. While the deer were never super thick here there used to be fair numbers. Elk have suffered too although not as bad as the deer.

Now, I'll ask you what has changed? Coyotes were there in pretty good numbers in the 70s and 80s. I know. I caught a lot of them. Actually less coyotes now then there ever have been in my life.
 
Habitat has changed for the worse in some areas but for the better in others so I think not much to blame there. I see areas of great deer habitat devoid of deer now. Unheard of in the 70s.

Tribal hunting gets a lot of the blame from some but I don't see it myself. In certain places yes, it could be but I hunt a lot of walk in areas that don't get much if any pressure from tribal hunters and the deer and elk are hurting there too.

That leaves cougar. When I trapped in the 70s I would rarely see cougar sign and they would never come to bait. This was before they were made a big game animal. We could keep any trapped. The population went up with imposition of tags and limits and even more when I-655 passed and put the hound men out of the woods. All this time there was a corresponding decline in deer and elk. At least that has been my observation. I believe cougar numbers are falling now. They have depleted their food supply. Cougar sign is common and now you can't hardly keep them from bothering a bait set. They are hungry. They are having a hard time killing game the same as we humans are. Also in my area they have pretty near cleaned the beaver out. I used to take 100 to 125 beaver off my line every year and even though no one has trapped the area for 10 years the beaver are gone.
So that's why I think it is cougar and we we will never have good hunting until I-655 is repealed.

If you have read this far I'll say yes coyotes, bears, brush pickers, they all get a few but it is cougar that has put us in negative recruitment territory.

One other thing ODFW did a mule deer mortality study just recently and I remember a study IDFG did years ago about elk calf mortality. Seems like I remember bear were the major problem on that one.
Sorry no links, Can't remember where I seen them.

It's a cinch if we could get a handle on predators we'd have more game, sell more licenses and be able to fund the WDFW better. Probably help to keep the private timberlands open too.
What we need is 1080 back but that will never happen.

[elkslare]

Just interesting note. while hunting in the Entiat, late hunt we watched a single yote chasing down a full grown doe. Never did see if it cought it but the doe was getting pretty nackered.

[logger]

Humptulips, do you think the forest service ground not getting much attenion in the way of harvest is a player? We logged the old polson camp about 3 years ago and most all we saw were elk not much for deer, we did see a couple of cougars also in the general area, but the bears were thick we saw so many bears we got to were we didn't hardly pay any attention to them.

[Humptulips]

I think the FS land is pretty well shot as far as habitat goes especially for deer but everything is hurting for something to eat there. Too much larger second growth with the brush dieing out underneath.
On top of that the south Olympics took a beating with that blow down we had 3 years ago. Quinault ridge is a nightmare of windfalls and there are some bad places on the Humptulips and Cougar mountain.
Polson camp and the 3200 rd are all private except for a few parcels of state land. Pretty good habitat but it will be going downhill now as it is pretty well all logged and growing up fast.
Bear probably don't help. You can thank I-655 for that.

[haus]

I'd have to agree with Axle. Considering the diversity of habitat found throughout our state it makes sense that variations in primary predator impact on deer/elk would vary.

Oly Pen tribal study.
http://nwifc.org/2010/09/tribes-and-state-change-harvest-levels-of-black-tail-deer-to-bolster-populations/#more-4170

Cougars, bobcats and hair loss syndrome.



Agree with your last comment Humptulips, financially there are several simple changes that could have significant financial impact on our states rural communities. Unfortunately the social factors turn these simple changes into a quagmire. It's not an impossible battle though, just can't go at it head on is all.