Another moral question regarding kids

[DoubleJ]

I am a disabled hunter.  I got my disabled rights because it is getting hard for me to pull back a bow with a jacked up shoulder and I have a heart condition that hinders how far I can hike through the woods.  I can still shoot a rife just fine though.  As part of the Disabled hunter program, I have a designated harvester card.

I'm having mixed feelings about an idea I had last night and would like some feedback.

If I take my son (Who is licensed) out hunting with me during modern firearm, and give him my harvester card, he would basically get to take 2 animals that year, one under my license as my harvester.  It is legal and I know my son would love it, but, morally?  Not sure where I stand.

[singleshot12]

If it's legal go for it!  it's up to you if it's moral or not and if you want to teach your kid that.

[GoldTip]

Well, just speaking for myself, but if someone has true disabilities that limit their ability to hunt, and I'm not questioning that you don't have disabilities, I don't have any problems with your doing exactly what you describe.  

[Gutpile]

I have a heart condition that hinders how far I can hike through the woods.

Arent you the guy who said you hiked 20 plus miles in one day with your kid while elk hunting?  Thats pretty good for having a bad ticker.

[DoubleJ]

The difference is, I do not have a disability that limits my ability to shoot a rifle, only to walk through tough terrain and shooting a bow.  My son is too young to shoot a bow yet so he hunts modern.  He would basically get to shoot 2 deer during the modern season.  For me, I don't care.  I've shot enough deer that it's no big deal as long as the meat ends up in the freezer but for him, it would be a big deal.

[DoubleJ]

I have a heart condition that hinders how far I can hike through the woods.

Arent you the guy who said you hiked 20 plus miles in one day with your kid while elk hunting?  Thats pretty good for having a bad ticker.

Flat ground is no problem.  I can't crash through brush and thick stuff

[CHUCK S]

I would like to find out how old your son is, if he's a juvenile then that would be different than a 25 yr old guy.  My gut would tell me that you would have to be standing next to him ( or squatting, laying, sitting, you know what I mean)  I don't think it's fair to sit in camp (not saying at all that's what you implied) and let some one harvest your tag.  Just my thought but I wouldn't say no to something that's your legal right.

[Ellensburg]

Morally I think it is fine. It is giving a young buck more experience.

[DoubleJ]

I would like to find out how old your son is, if he's a juvenile then that would be different than a 25 yr old guy.  My gut would tell me that you would have to be standing next to him ( or squatting, laying, sitting, you know what I mean)  I don't think it's fair to sit in camp (not saying at all that's what you implied) and let some one harvest your tag.  Just my thought but I wouldn't say no to something that's your legal right.

He's 9.  I would most deffinately be right next to him

[shoot-em-dead]

I have the disabled card myself- there isn't any question here on morals or ethics. The state made it legal for disabled people.

[Woodchuck]

if it were legal i would let youngsters fill my tag/tags every time  there is no greater gift to me in the woods than to see the unbridled joy on a kids face when they get to knock one down 

[DoubleJ]

if it were legal i would let youngsters fill my tag/tags every time  there is no greater gift to me in the woods than to see the unbridled joy on a kids face when they get to knock one down 

This is how I feel

[CHUCK S]

Since he's 9 I say go for it, can you imagine having that oppurtunity as a kid growing up. Hell the only deer I got to see growing up were in a zoo

[h20hunter]

He's 9, legal (both of you), great father/son experience, great mentor experience, safe, go for it and good for both of you.

[runamuk]

if it were legal i would let youngsters fill my tag/tags every time  there is no greater gift to me in the woods than to see the unbridled joy on a kids face when they get to knock one down 

This is the answer I would give as well.....it is legal with your card and to me there is no moral issue

[Machias]

9, 19, 29, 39, 49, legal and moral in my book.

[Skillet]

Here's my 

Legal?  Sure.  Moral?  I wouldn't think so. 
The harvester card is intended to be given to and used by people who cannot do what is necessary to harvest the animal due to a disability. 
Ask yourself this question - if you didn't bowhunt (only rifle hunted), would you have ever applied for the harvester card?  I know a few older guys that still hunt and can't do anywhere near 20 miles a day on flat ground... they don't have that card.  So if you wouldn't have gotten the card for rifle hunting, is it ethical to use it for rifle hunting?  Your call.  But the fact you posted the question speaks volumes.
Also, what does this teach the kid?  Game the system and you get to harvest more deer than regular people - legally! 

[jackelope]

if it were legal i would let youngsters fill my tag/tags every time  there is no greater gift to me in the woods than to see the unbridled joy on a kids face when they get to knock one down 

This is how I feel

I don't understand the point of this thread. If you're ok with it and it's legal, who's business is it to judge what's morally ok and ethical to you?? If you're ok with it, then do it. It's clearly legal. Who gives a crap what everyone else thinks.

I don't want you to take this the wrong way....so here goes. Are you only a disabled hunter because you can't shoot a bow and hike a lot?  In other words, you can beat the brush and/or hike long distances and shoot a rifle just fine??

[jackelope]

Here's another question. If you have an archery tag, can your son shoot a deer with his rifle in the rifle season on your harvester card?
If you have to buy a rifle tag for your kid to shoot a deer with his rifle on your card and you can hunt just fine with a rifle, then the moral and ethical issues for me lie in that. You shouldn't have a disabled hunter permit. That opinion is based on the answers to my other question about your abilities. I recall a really really big hike you went on this season.

[kckrawler]

I, too, am a designated hunter for my father who has MS and can't do anything but shoot. To me, since he can shoot just fine, I won't take a shot when we're hunting together. Basically, that companion card does nothing but give me the legal right to put his tag on a downed animal.

But, I'm 31 years old and have shot several animals in my hunting lifetime so I don't need to take the shot. If I were in your situation and was getting my kid into hunting, he'd take every shot and every kill, at least until he got a few under his belt!!!  

On the other side of the fence though, that companion card also means that he's there to tag, gut, process, and pack the animal out. He's also there to take care of you if your ticker pops off at the wrong time or you stumble into a hole that you can't get out of. I'd question if a 9 year old kid is capable of taking on all of those tasks much less watching his father suffer while he stands there helplessly. To me, that sounds like a very scary situation and we all know that they happen all the time...

Personally, I say you let him shoot! But more importantly, you should have another capable adult who can lead the situation if it get's too overwhelming for the kid...that'll scare him away from hunting quicker than you think.

[k_rex]

^^^^^
Well said!

[DoubleJ]

K.  Thanks everybody

[Bob33]

Read this carefully: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-828

I was a designated hunter for a disabled hunter (excuse me: "hunter with a disability" is now the correct term) this past summer.  He was not able to shoot an animal, and allowed me to do it for him.  It was a great experience for both of us.  I'd volunteer to do it again in a heartbeat.

[724wd]

it's interesting to me that, as a kid, my dad wanted nothing more than for me to shoot a nice buck.  If it were legal, he would have let me do all the shooting!  now that i'm in my 30's and my old man is on the shady side of 60 (and was so close to death just 2 years ago) all I want is for HIM to shoot a nice buck!       that, and i would love my my daughter (3 years) to hunt with him, as well...

[Alchase]

Has your 9 year old completed a hunter safety course?

[Bob33]

Has your 9 year old completed a hunter safety course?

It would appear so:

"If I take my son (Who is licensed) out hunting with me during modern firearm"

[wayner]

Morally I think it is fine. It is giving a young buck more experience.

[flinger]

I have a heart condition that hinders how far I can hike through the woods.

Arent you the guy who said you hiked 20 plus miles in one day with your kid while elk hunting?   Thats pretty good for having a bad ticker.

Flat ground is no problem.  I can't crash through brush and thick stuff

just curious,Where do you hunt elk at that you can hike 20 miles on flat ground and not tromp through thick stuff. That sounds like my kinda Elk country

[DoubleJ]

It wasn't elk, it was mulies in GMU 260.  I didn't correct gutpiles post because it wasn't relevant to the thread.  We walked a ways during elk too but not as far.

[DoubleJ]

Has your 9 year old completed a hunter safety course?

Yes, and bagged his first deer this year

[Gutpile]

It wasn't elk, it was mulies in GMU 260.  I didn't correct gutpiles post because it wasn't relevant to the thread.  We walked a ways during elk too but not as far.

I was going off of this quote which is in the Elk forum under the "never again" thread.

He's a hiker.  Over in Foster Creek, he did 28 miles the first day and 17 the second.  Yesterday, we did 9.7.

[DoubleJ]

Yup.  Those miles in Foster creek were along roads and deer trails chasing mulies.  9.7 during elk, all along roads with minor jaunts into clearcuts.


The thread wasn't about whether or not I deserve a disabled hunters designation.  I feel like I do or I wouldn't have applied.  The state feels like I do or they wouldn't have given it to me.  And mostly, my doctor thought that I did, enough so that he had to put his medical license on the form that I turned in, risking reprocutions if  he made false claims.  I am a disabled hunter, whether or not anybody thinks I should be.  BTW, if any of you doubt my abilities, please, get ahold of Soldier5 on here.  He is the only person from this website that has ever hunted with me.  He can be my first hand witness that I have major difficulties when it comes to hiking.  Not that I should need this proof.

Now, back to the thread at hand please.

[steen]

I wouldn't have a problem with it.  If my husband and I could we would let the kids shoot most of the pheasants also and just watch them, the dog, and take pictures.  I love shooting but I also love the walk outdoors.  I still enjoy hunting my own deer but it is usually the last tag filled because I hunt with the kids first.  Go for it, he's 9 years old.  Apply for a doe tag for your son he's guaranteed shooting time then.

[link]

Is it moral? You can't ask another person to answer that question for you. It may be moral for one person and not another.  As you've probably read by these posts, there are a lot of different "morals". Is it moral to you? Thats the question I think you ought to be asking.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

I am a disabled vet with a harvester card. I would let my son fill every one of my tags. He is 11.
No qualms about it... Only person that will judge you is you and your son.
I feel that if it is legal go for it.

[SemperFidelis97]

I would like to find out how old your son is, if he's a juvenile then that would be different than a 25 yr old guy.  My gut would tell me that you would have to be standing next to him ( or squatting, laying, sitting, you know what I mean)  I don't think it's fair to sit in camp (not saying at all that's what you implied) and let some one harvest your tag.  Just my thought but I wouldn't say no to something that's your legal right.

You have to be in line of sight of the designated hunter also said hunter has to have his own license, and tags to be hunting with you legally.  As for me I see no issue in it.  Honestly I have never used mine though I would gladly let either of my children harvest my animal if the situation presented itself.

[coachcw]

I have a good hunting buddie thats dissabled and I'm his DH . He's not my father but is Like one to me . I spoke with a warden last year on this issue , he said as long as your in prccsimitty of the dissabled hunter its ok . This allows a guy that normally wouldn't be out hunting the abillity to not only hunt but partake in the harvest . Morrally I'm ok with it and to me any time that you can spend in the woods with your son is time well spent .

[Bob33]

The one other thought I'd add: someone once told me how to determine if something was moral or not.  He said that if you had to ask, it probably wasn't.

[DoubleJ]

I know my moral compass, I was basically asking for other's input as well.  The comments of others will not impact my decision one way or the other.  I was just asking what other people thought.

[Hunterman]

If you have shot your share of deer (like I feel I have) let your kid kill them..Its called sharing in my moral book..

Hunterman(Tony)

[bobcat]

You have to be in line of sight of the designated hunter also said hunter has to have his own license, and tags to be hunting with you legally.

The regulations state that you have to be within 1/4 mile and have a form of direct communication. About the companion hunter also having a license and tag, are you sure about that? I think a hunting license is needed just basically to satisfy the hunter education requirement. A hunting license from another state will satisfy the requirement that the designated companion hunter be a licensed hunter. The companion hunter does not need to have a tag.

[ribka]

I take out my friend who has advanced MS and am his DH. I always feel guilty shooting because I would love for him to get a shot. 4 years ago I managed to chase a cow elk in his direction and he took a good shot. His MS was not that bad at the time.

Anyway even being the DH would rather have someone else shoot if possible.

[throttlejocky20]

As long as you follow the laws that apply to the companion card go for it. I shoot my old mans deer last year under the same conditions.