using illumanock in Wa

[WildWind1]

Good afternoon,

Lets talk nocks!

I invite anyone here or across the USA, including P&Y to tell me what about the light nock is not fair chase?

Anyone?

This tool is about arrow recovery only.

[MtnMuley]

 

[Ray]

This tool is about arrow recovery only.

Except there are a lot of people saying it isn't about arrow recovery and there are those that tell stories and talk of linking the tool to shooting game and recovering the game.

[WildWind1]

Here is an intersting quote from P&Y.

If you take out the phrase Let off and use the phrase lighted nock it really does make sence.

I have sent this to M.R. James @ P&Y along with another letter to see if they might consider changing their rule as well..

Why the Pope & Young dropped the let off rule….
By M.R. James, Founder/Editor Emeritus
”AS A SENIOR MEMBER of the Pope and Young Club since 1980 and editor of three of the five P&Y record books published since 1975, I have been involved in various club activities for more than 32 years. I served on the board of directors from 1986 to 2000, including a 10-year stint as first vice president. I've been an official measurer since 1978. .............

As I see it, we must admit we made a mistake. Why? For years now, about 80 percent of compound bows sold have greater than 65-percent letoff. That means most bowhunters heading afield this fall will be toting bows that are P&Y "illegal," and none of the trophy animals they harvest will be eligible for the P&Y record book. In my opinion, something is definitely wrong when our record system excludes a majority of legally licensed bowhunters.

Not only does this deprive the Club of valuable revenue needed for many worthwhile projects, but worse, it means our club no longer fulfills a fundamental P&Y goal of serving as repository for bowhunting records of North American big game. And as long as a majority of this continent's bowhunters use equipment deemed unacceptable by Pope and Young, we will never collect truly representative trophy data. Without change, we'll soon be accepting and documenting a mere fraction of the total annual trophy harvest.

Given that fact, the Club's credibility is at stake. We can stubbornly stick to our 65-percent rule and exclude an increasing number of worthy trophies year after year, or we can accept the reality of a changing bowhunting world and realize that this particular equipment issue is not really significant.”

[WildWind1]

Ray,

Well put.

I invite them to tell me how it improves your shot or lets you shoot later.

IF YOU AN UNETHICAL HUNTER, YOU WERE BEFORE THE SHOT...

[ridgefire]

im a avid bowhunter and have no problem with them allowing the use of lighted nocks. i think its crazy that some think that just because a person has a lighted nock they are all of a sudden going to start taking unethical shots. i think that like everything else, with time comes change, and i think this is where bowhunting is going whether i like it or not. no one is forcing you to use these nocks and i would never spend the money on them but if others want to go ahead. there may be times where it helps someone be able to follow their arrow better and determine whether it was a good shot and to wait an hour before following the bloodtrail or if it wasnt the best shot and waiting eight hours before starting to track it.

[wf70gonehunting]

when the Game Commission reads or hears these objections then they will see that many archers are more interested in gadgets than seasons.

I have not attended any of the meetings, are you suggesting F&G's stance is that the acceptance of lumenocks would result in shorter archery seasons?

No

I'm just curious as to why you would then suggest in your comment that archery hunters, by siding with the use of luminocks, would have made a choice of one or the other, as seen by F&G.?

[Ray]

when the Game Commission reads or hears these objections then they will see that many archers are more interested in gadgets than seasons.

I have not attended any of the meetings, are you suggesting F&G's stance is that the acceptance of lumenocks would result in shorter archery seasons?

No

I'm just curious as to why you would then suggest in your comment that archery hunters, by siding with the use of luminocks, would have made a choice of one or the other, as seen by F&G.?

I think you are reading into something which is non existant. You quoted me and asked a specific question. I answered it as bluntly as possible. Perhaps you wanted to ask a different question since my answer was not sufficient.

[dscubame]

In my humble opinion and as an outsider looking into your archery world it is very apparent archers as a group are most definitely divided.  Interesting debate you guys have here.  

[Machias]

In my humble opinion and as an outsider looking into your archery world it is very apparent archers as a group are most definitely divided.  Interesting debate you guys have here.  

I would have to respectfully disagree.  I could pick any number of topics related to each user group and end up with just as contentious and divided argument.  Hopefully though as a group, we can have these discussions and disagreements, but once it's settled, however it goes, we all come together and fight for the hunting community as a whole.  Trust me as a guy who loves to dabble in all sorts of different outdoor activities, archers are no more divided then other user groups.  

[ribka]

In my humble opinion and as an outsider looking into your archery world it is very apparent archers as a group are most definitely divided.  Interesting debate you guys have here.  

I would have to respectfully disagree.  I could pick any number of topics related to each user group and end up with just as contentious and divided argument.  Hopefully though as a group, we can have these discussions and disagreements, but once it's settled, however it goes, we all come together and fight for the hunting community as a whole.  Trust me as a guy who loves to dabble in all sorts of different outdoor activities, archers are no more divided then other user groups.  

Would have to agree. With 30 plus year bow hunting have to say more there is just as much if not more camaraderie among bow hunters than among other user groups. Just very passionate about our sport and heritage, history. Shoot and animal 300 yds away and then shoot one 15-20 yds away with a bow and will understand. Nothing in the sporting world more exciting/challenging than that

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Since we're all still living in the dark ages, why don't we go back to segregation, not allowing women to vote, or the horse drawn carriage?

Modern hunting equipment aids in the humane harvesting of animals; modern muzzleloaders, modern archery equipment, modern rifles, etc. Why allow scopes on rifles? Why don't we only allow blackpowder instead of pryodex and other modern propellents? IMHO I don't see anything wrong with allowing the use of any and all modern equipment while hunting. We pay good, hard earned money for the opportunity to harvest an animal for our own consumption in the form of our license and fees. It's a shame that we allow an already intrusive government to impose itself any further in our lives and recreational opportunities.  EMBRACE THE 21st CENTURY!

It has NOTHING to do with an intrusive repressive Government.  This rule is supported by the majority of bowhunters in this state.  Now that may be changing but equipment restictions are supported by the very community it affects.  I wonder how we ever harvested animals before lumenoks?  I have taken close to 40 deer with a bow and 5 bears, I use bright colored fletching and nocks and can see my arrow path and impact site without any problem at all.  The more effective we are the shorter and shorter our seasons get.  The reason more and more guys are attracted to archery seasons is the length of the season.  We get a whole bunch of new guys clamoring for the latest and greatest gadgets and the season gets shorter and shorter.  What happens then?  All these fly by night bowhunters will leave a sport their heart was never really into.  You want to use electronics on a bow, go ahead, buy a modern tag and hunt with your bow gear, no restrictions, have fun!

He is partially right about the repressive government. The fact is we are supposed to protect the minority from the majority. This has nothing to do with race like the Dem's try to make it out. This has to do with mans nature to form factions or elitist groups that promote their own (majority) interest at the expense of the interest of others.... which is exactly the case here. This is only for the positive, has no impact on the actual kill itself and has no impact on the herd, your hunt or your individual rights. It simply just doesn't appeal to your (or my) senses. Of course this is a state issue and the state has spoken at this point so it is kosher with the law of the land.. however, despite the fact that it doesn't appeal to my senses I can come up with no reasonable reason to deny that right to anyone. It has no impact on me or the success of the bowhunter to actually kill.. possibly recover (which I personally wish all were recovered)....but not kill.

I don't know it for a fact but I bet this is not supported by the majority of bowhunters (denying the use of lumenocks that is)...but it is supported by the majority of voters. I personally would not vote against it but I have no plans or desires to use lumenock. Like you I have never had an issue seeing my shot.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Would have to agree. With 30 plus year bow hunting have to say more there is just as much if not more camaraderie among bow hunters than among other user groups. Just very passionate about our sport and heritage, history. Shoot and animal 300 yds away and then shoot one 15-20 yds away with a bow and will understand. Nothing in the sporting world more exciting/challenging than that

I agree, when I firearm hunted, I would scout during the summer, pack into Alpine Lks Wilderness for the "High Country" hunt, get in position and when I saw my legal animal, shoot it...
I would get excited as I approached my downed animal....
Then I heard some guys Bugling at the sportsman show,(early 80's) and checked it out, bought a diaphragm, and practiced. That year while up deer hunting, I called my first 6X6 Bull to within 15 yards, I had never felt the adrenalin like I did then, and I was not even Elk Hunting !
I bought a Compound the next week, at Northwest Archery, and met an interesting fellow by the name of Glenn StCharles, I took the NBEF course in the old Fred Bear/Glenn StCharles museum and met Joe and Jay St Charles, had arrows made by Suzanne, met a guy that goes by the name "Bowdoc" now, and his son (who later got a job at NW), Hunted with these guys, joined Washington State Bowhunters, and years later Traditional Bowhunters of Washington (when I dropped the "training wheels")
there is something special about groups that have weekends getting together to shoot stumps, or 3D's, and share stories that is nothing like what I ever felt while going shooting (firearms) with my friends, or at the range.
Muzzleloaders have similar weekends, but I never heard of modern weapon users having these rendezvous (not to say they don't, I just never heard of them....
But this debate was about Lumenoc's, I personally have gone the other direction, antique bows and wooden arrows, my whole family uses Trad equipment, from my 5 year old daughter (12# longbow) to me with a 70# recurve,
 I do not care what you use to hunt with, but I do feel that Lumenocs, lighted sight pins, etc, are not used by guys that hunt with a bow for the same reasons I do, they are entitled to their choices, and I see no reason why they should NOT be able to use them, but if you use a weapon with "self imposed limitations" such as Archery equipment, why do you want to add stuff to it to make things easier ?
It is all fine and dandy when competing with other archers at shoots, but if you use a bow to challenge yourself, those "tools" are nothing more (or less) than add-ons to make the bow more modern, and I feel that hunting with modern technology is just that "modern" and belong in "modern Weapon" seasons.
Lumenocs do not make you a better Archer, I see no real advantage to them myself, other than they are cool, and would help locate your arrow after the shot (lord knows I wish I had one after losing one of my Bill Sweetland Forgewoods), but as I keep stating in these discussions, THE LAW HAS NOTHING TO DO SPECIFICALLY WITH LUMENOCS, and I am sure that within a couple years the rule will be amended, but then what will be the next thing ?
First it was let-off, now lumenocs, then it will probably be expandables, then lighted sight-pins, built on rangefinders, etc....
As we all know, and complain about, the WDFW is "Dollar Driven", the seasons are getting shorter, you have to work harder to get away from other hunters, and on to animals, read all the complaining on this site, If we continue to allow "advances" in equipment, and those who feel that all the equipment money can buy should be used, where is our seasons and opportunity going to be in 10 years ?
If I were to go out and get a 300fps bow, use a carbon arrow, (whatever happened to over-draws?) expandable broadhead, lumenoc,and laser rangefinder, ride into my hunting area on an ORV, and watch over my "shot-plot" enhanced with "Deer-Cane" and "Apple-Molasses Block", maybe even a "Trophy Rock", would you call it hunting ?, or shopping ?
I can see it now..... 1 week for all user groups, and we will have no-one to blame but ourselves.
I know I sound like Chicken Little, and am overreacting to a small issue, and it is inevitable that there will be changes, I just worry that if we don't quit trying to use new technology, and attempt to hold on to what we have now, we will lose out in the end, and when my kids are old enough to go hunting with me, it will only be for one weekend a year,

[DBHAWTHORNE]

First it was let-off, now lumenocs, then it will probably be expandables, then lighted sight-pins, built on rangefinders, etc....
As we all know, and complain about, the WDFW is "Dollar Driven", the seasons are getting shorter, you have to work harder to get away from other hunters, and on to animals, read all the complaining on this site, If we continue to allow "advances" in equipment, and those who feel that all the equipment money can buy should be used, where is our seasons and opportunity going to be in 10 years ?
If I were to go out and get a 300fps bow, use a carbon arrow, (whatever happened to over-draws?) expandable broadhead, lumenoc,and laser rangefinder, ride into my hunting area on an ORV, and watch over my "shot-plot" enhanced with "Deer-Cane" and "Apple-Molasses Block", maybe even a "Trophy Rock", would you call it hunting ?, or shopping ?
I can see it now..... 1 week for all user groups, and we will have no-one to blame but ourselves.
I know I sound like Chicken Little, and am overreacting to a small issue, and it is inevitable that there will be changes, I just worry that if we don't quit trying to use new technology, and attempt to hold on to what we have now, we will lose out in the end, and when my kids are old enough to go hunting with me, it will only be for one weekend a year,

Expandable broadheads, lighted sight pins, built on rangefinders, lumenoks, let off etc... all of these things help the average hunter make ethical shots but will not increase their chances of taking a deer. We are going to allow these hunters to hunt with archery equipment simply by purchasing a license. Are you against ethical shots? Would you rather remain the fractional minority as a Trad hunter so your own individual rights (like a decent length hunting season) is not protected from the majority... or would you rather stand on your own and defend your seasons as a hardcore Trad hunter. I personally want people in archery and I want them to make great shots. I want it to be as easy as possible for newcomer to enter archery. Anything to improve that and still keep a reasonable kill range of 100 yard or less I am good with. If that means lumenocks, baiting, built on rangefinder, lighted sight pints, crossbows etc...... I am good with it.. I dont' expect everyone to be as dedicated or self restrictive as you or I. The fact that someone hunts with a lumenock or lighted sight has zero effect on me or their overall success of making a kill (success with ethical shots for the average hunter... greatly increased). I want people (big numbers) on my side to fight against the anti-hunters or even fellow hunters with elitist attitude who think my method of hunting (compound bow with fiberoptic sight and bait/cameras whatever) does not constitute "real" hunting.

[Ray]

I'm not picking on you, but this statement is not completely factual.

Expandable broadheads, lighted sight pins, built on rangefinders, lumenoks, let off etc... all of these things help the average hunter make ethical shots but will not increase their chances of taking a deer.

Rangefinders, lighted sight pins do increase some people's chances of taking deer. I think you would agree to that. Not sure why it was stated. I think it could easily be argued that placing the rangefinders and other electronics on the bow and arrow would also make the likelihood of harvest higher (increase chances).