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QuoteIMO,I don't think that theory is right at all. Over time i think we will see more & more 3 1/2 and older bucks as time progresses with 4 point or better in the NE corner. When whitetails get older they get ALOT smarter and therefore live longer and become very nocturnal.I hope they pass the 4 point rule well, here is the data from various places across the US on antler pt restrictions:WA biologist talking about Whitetail antler pt restrictions in Oregon:"Biologists are concerned that forcing all the harvest to mature bucks could have the consequence of reducing the number of bucks reaching five-point or larger size – as it did in Oregon before that state dropped its brief fling with whitetail antler point restrictions."Data from the Whitetail Institute:"Where it has been instituted, either through regulations or through voluntary cooperation by clubs and individual hunters, antler restrictions have resulted in more bigger bucks in the entire population. Bigger, however, is a relative term. Data compiled by the PGC shows that while yearling bucks are indeed surviving at higher rates, most are being harvested the first year they are legal. Prior to the new rules, about 20 percent of the total buck harvest consisted of mature (two years or older) deer. Now, 2-1/2-year-old bucks make up 75 percent of Pennsylvania’s “mature” buck harvest.""After examining the effect of antler restrictions for 14 years, biologists in Mississippi found that selective harvest of bucks with at least four points on one side resulted in a reduction in bucks with larger antlers in subsequent years. In other words, the best bucks were being taken out of the population early because they grew legal antlers at younger ages than lower-quality bucks of the same age. Called “high-grading,” it ultimately resulted in an overall decline in antler size of 3 1/2-year old and older bucks. It’s happening mostly on public property where hunting pressure is high and hunters are still less willing to let a legal deer pass."“We were seeing a decrease in antler quality because the poor-quality yearling bucks were doing most of the breeding. By increasing the overall antler quality, we expect to see a long-term increase in antler size as well as a shorter breeding season,” he explains. “When we had the four-point rule in place, the breeding season was lasting as long as 50 days and we saw some fawns born as late as October. That’s not a sign of a healthy deer herd.”Like I explained, it will simply result in a shift from 1.5 yr old animals to 2.5 yr old animals; it will reduce the numbers of truly mature bucks in the population because it focus harvest on the older age classes and it is taking out the bucks with the best genetics.It's not a soultion, its a gimmick....the reason it is so "popular" with sportsmen, and why they mistakenly "think" it is creating larger bucks is because most hunters all they have ever shot in their life is 1.5 yr old bucks, and a few older ones; with antler pt restrictions, they are now shooting 2.5 yr old animals instead of 1.5 yr olds; basket racked, 2.5 yr old 4pt whitetails are not mature bucks; 19" basket racked, 2.5 yr old, mule deer, while they might look great in your rifle scope, are not mature mule deer.yes, you shift harvest to deer 1 yr older, and yes, a 2.5 yr old buck has a bigger rack; but, the consequences of achieving this slight gain in buck quality comes at a heavy price.
IMO,I don't think that theory is right at all. Over time i think we will see more & more 3 1/2 and older bucks as time progresses with 4 point or better in the NE corner. When whitetails get older they get ALOT smarter and therefore live longer and become very nocturnal.I hope they pass the 4 point rule
QuoteIMO,I don't think that theory is right at all. Over time i think we will see more & more 3 1/2 and older bucks as time progresses with 4 point or better in the NE corner. When whitetails get older they get ALOT smarter and therefore live longer and become very nocturnal.I hope they pass the 4 point rule well, here is the data from various places across the US on antler pt restrictions:WA biologist talking about Whitetail antler pt restrictions in Oregon:"Biologists are concerned that forcing all the harvest to mature bucks could have the consequence of reducing the number of bucks reaching five-point or larger size – as it did in Oregon before that state dropped its brief fling with whitetail antler point restrictions."Are these whitetail experts or Oregon granola biologists who don't know anything about whitetail management? I am surprised this is still out there. This is essentially the hunting mature deer reverses natural selection by allowing the weak and scrawny to survive argument put out by animal rights activists. Even first year biology student can see the major flaw in that argument. Without getting into the science of it I think we only need to look at recorded history to see that in the past 20-25 years (when the monster buck craze really picked up steam) there have been a far higher percentage of the worlds biggest whitetail taken than at any other time in recorded history.Data from the Whitetail Institute:"Where it has been instituted, either through regulations or through voluntary cooperation by clubs and individual hunters, antler restrictions have resulted in more bigger bucks in the entire population. Bigger, however, is a relative term. Data compiled by the PGC shows that while yearling bucks are indeed surviving at higher rates, most are being harvested the first year they are legal. Prior to the new rules, about 20 percent of the total buck harvest consisted of mature (two years or older) deer. Now, 2-1/2-year-old bucks make up 75 percent of Pennsylvania’s “mature” buck harvest."Of interesting note...since the antler restrictions PA has had more Boone and Crockett entries than any other time since the late 40's early 50's when there was less hunting pressure..now even with some of the highest hunting pressure in the nation they are seeing an improvement in herd structure and again proves the granola Oregon biologist very wrong...obviously it works to some extent. I think it is obvious that you will see a shift in the harvest from yearling bucks to 2 1/2 year old bucks. Prior to the protection 80% of the bucks taken were yearlings and the majority of the rest were probably 2 1/2. Now there is roughly 5% more than before that live beyond 2 1/2. It also appears that 25% of the bucks are now older than 2 1/2 where as the 20% before were 2 1/2 or older...so obviously some success in balancing the herd there... though it would be near impossible with their hunting pressure."After examining the effect of antler restrictions for 14 years, biologists in Mississippi found that selective harvest of bucks with at least four points on one side resulted in a reduction in bucks with larger antlers in subsequent years. In other words, the best bucks were being taken out of the population early because they grew legal antlers at younger ages than lower-quality bucks of the same age. Called “high-grading,” it ultimately resulted in an overall decline in antler size of 3 1/2-year old and older bucks. It’s happening mostly on public property where hunting pressure is high and hunters are still less willing to let a legal deer pass."First I agree and have said this many times here that point restrictions are by far not the best way to protect the yearlings...but...it is better than nothing. Now...I will give you that this is a scientific study done somewhat recently by people who actually specialize in whitetail deer for a living unlike most NW biologist. However, they failed in this study on several points...a major point being that this study "assumed" (important) that spikes were genetically inferior yearlings (they used old research in this assumption and that research was also faulty so it has truly never been proven) to the contrary a newer and scientifically sound study shows that there is no predictability between a bucks first set of antlers and what he will have when he reaches maturity. “We were seeing a decrease in antler quality because the poor-quality yearling bucks were doing most of the breeding. By increasing the overall antler quality, we expect to see a long-term increase in antler size as well as a shorter breeding season,” he explains. “When we had the four-point rule in place, the breeding season was lasting as long as 50 days and we saw some fawns born as late as October. That’s not a sign of a healthy deer herd.” Again this comes from the flawed MS study and what is interesting is the other state are not noting the same issues example PA/MO.Like I explained, it will simply result in a shift from 1.5 yr old animals to 2.5 yr old animals; it will reduce the numbers of truly mature bucks in the population because it focus harvest on the older age classes and it is taking out the bucks with the best genetics.Okay...let me tackle this misconception.....1. Does a buck have to be old to have the best genetics? Answer: Obviously no..so focusing the harvest on the older age class does not take out the bucks with the best genetics. Those bucks have bred and have yearlings with those great genetics. 2. Can you judge a bucks genetics when he is a yearling? Answer: No not really.. so doesn't it make sense to let them get older if you want to ensure you allow the young bucks with superior genetics to breed? 3. Is it easier to see a bucks genetics at 2 1/2 than it is 1 1/2. Yes..still not optimal (5 1/2 is where he really shows his potential) but definitely better than 1 1/2. Protecting the yearlings will have the opposite effect of what you propose.It's not a soultion, its a gimmick.... That is not what Missouri experienced..there were obviosly a growing number of mature bucks in their herd after the antler restrictions. http://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2008/09/experimental-antler-point-restriction/[color]the reason it is so "popular" with sportsmen, and why they mistakenly "think" it is creating larger bucks is because most hunters all they have ever shot in their life is 1.5 yr old bucks, and a few older ones; with antler pt restrictions, they are now shooting 2.5 yr old animals instead of 1.5 yr olds; basket racked, 2.5 yr old 4pt whitetails are not mature bucks; 19" basket racked, 2.5 yr old, mule deer, while they might look great in your rifle scope, are not mature mule deer. Probably true but creating larger bucks isn't the point...creating a well balanced herd is...so if they think it is strictly due to larger bucks that is fine by me.. no harm/no foulyes , you shift harvest to deer 1 yr older, and yes, a 2.5 yr old buck has a bigger rack; but, the consequences of achieving this slight gain in buck quality comes at a heavy price.
