non jacketed bullets

[huntingbg]

So correct me if I'm wrong, during muzzleloader season you can only use lead bullets without a copper or other type of jacket?

[CP]

Correct.

(b) A muzzleloading firearm used for deer
must fire a single, non-jacketed lead
projectile of nominal 40 caliber or larger
except that buckshot size #1 or larger, may
be used in a smoothbore of 60 caliber or
larger. Lead bullets with polymer tips are
legal.
(c) A muzzleloading firearm used for
all other big game must fire a single, nonjacketed
lead projectile of nominal 50 caliber
or larger, or fire a single, non-jacketed lead
projectile of at least 170 grains. Lead bullets
with polymer tips are legal.

[bobcat]

Right. And that's even true if you use a muzzleloader during modern firearm season, contrary to popular opinion.

[G.R.K]

October 5, 2006



TO:       Bruce Bjork, Chief, Enforcement Program

FROM:    Dave Brittell, Assistant Director, Wildlife Program

SUBJECT:    INTERPRETATION OF WAC 232-12-051


There has been some confusion and different interpretations provided to the public by the Wildlife Program, Enforcement Program, and the Regional Offices regarding WAC 232-12-051, and which projectiles are legal to use during muzzleloader season. 

A conference call was convened today that included Steve Pozzanghera from Wildlife Program, Dan Boes representing the Enforcement Program for Deputy Chief Jarmon, and Sheila Lynch, Assistant Attorney General from the AG’s office.  The group reviewed the WAC and discussed the differences in interpretation.  The result of the discussion was that the group agreed the stronger interpretation of WAC 232-12-051 referencing non-jacketed, lead projectiles is that this language was intended to prohibit the use of copper and other metal jackets used to surround the lead core of a bullet and to limit that type of technology.  The language does not specifically prohibit other types of attachments to lead projectiles, such as non-lead tips plastic or otherwise, plastic bases, or plastic sabots.  The Wildlife Program believes that this interpretation was the intent at the time the rule was adopted.  This was also Wildlife Program’s original interpretation of the current language as written. 

Given the confusion over the interpretation of the rule language, and given Wildlife Program’s interpretation that lead bullets with non-lead tips, plastic bases, and plastic sabots are legal, the Wildlife Program recommends that the Enforcement Program not cite muzzleloaders for using those types of equipment.  Wildlife Program also recommends that Enforcement Program circulate this information through the Regional Captains to all of the Detachments. 

We would welcome further discussions with Enforcement, Hunter Education, and the Fish and Wildlife Commission if it is determined that the current wording of the rule language needs modification in the future for additional clarity. 

cc:   Bill Jarmon
   Sheila Lynch
Regional Directors
   Regional Wildlife Program Managers
   Regional Office Managers
   Mik Mikitik   
Dave Ware
   Michelle Gavin-Panos

[G.R.K]

WAC Summary Information
This pamphlet is a summary of the hunting regulations and seasons adopted
by the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission. This pamphlet does not
contain nor is it intended to contain all Department regulations. Regulations
specific to the hunting seasons described in this pamphlet are found in Sections
232-28-248 through 232-28-515, and 232-12-001 through 232-12-830, of the
Washington Administrative Code.

[MountainWalk]

i wonder why all the hostility towards jacketed bullets?

[cascademountainhunter]

yep

[bobcat]

i wonder why all the hostility towards jacketed bullets?

They're not "primitive" and/or "traditional."  They extend a muzzleloader's range. Non-jacketed bullets cannot be loaded to as high a velocity without a loss of accuracy and excessive leading of the bore. They have to draw the line somewhere, and I think in this state they got it right.

[G.R.K]

i wonder why all the hostility towards jacketed bullets?

They're not "primitive" and/or "traditional."  They extend a muzzleloader's range. Non-jacketed bullets cannot be loaded to as high a velocity without a loss of accuracy and excessive leading of the bore. They have to draw the line somewhere, and I think in this state they got it right.

             They only extend the range with the right ignition{209 Primers}.Use a lead bullet with a SABOT,I haven't seen much plasticizing of the bore with a SABOT

[MountainWalk]

inlines arent primitive or traditional. i think they got it wrong if you ask me

[Curly]

inlines arent primitive or traditional. i think they got it wrong if you ask me

They can't please everybody, but they apparently try to please as many people as possible.  Too many people would bitch if they outlawed inlines.  The way the law is, there is not much of an advantage to using an inline...........the inline may be slightly more reliable for ignition.  The thing I like about the inline is that it is a little easier to clean and it is nice to be able to look down the barrel.  The effective range of a sidelock or inline is still going to be the same, so there really is not much of a reason to restrict the laws more than they currently are.

I think the main problem with the image that inlines have is that a lot of the hunting shows on TV show someone taking elk, caribou, bear, etc at rediculously long ranges with inline ML's.  They are using TC Encore's and the like with scopes and jacketed bullets.  A lot of people see that and they start thinking that inline ML's shouldn't be allowed, but with the restrictions that are set in this State, there is not really any extended range advantage of an inline over a sidelock.

It would be nice to try some of the newer bullets that are available out there and almost all of them are jacketed or solid copper.  Some of the bullets may get you a little better accuracy and a little more effective range......probably the reason they restrict to all lead bullets.  There seems to be a lot more options for jacketed bulltes than all lead bullets.

Maybe they should make the law like Oregon's where you can't use SABOT's, but I think it would suck to change the law after having it the way it is for so long.  People already have loads worked up with a certain sabot/bullet combo and maybe their rifle wouldn't shoot conicals or roundballs well; then they would have to buy a new barrel or new rifle.

So, whether they got the law right or not, it is what it is.  I'm okay with the way the ML laws are written (except for making someone adhere to all the ML requirements if they want to use one during modern rifle).

[rasbo]

I shoot an inline and love it its dependable,however I dont shoot over 50 yrds my preference only.I cant shoot a bow anymore so I like to muzzle load.I dont believe scopes or jacketed bullits should be allowed.If I cant get to within 50 yrds then I will go to the rifle.I think thats whats its about,getting close and being a little more sneaky.

[Curly]

My limit is 120 yards with my ML.

[PA BEN]

Right. And that's even true if you use a muzzleloader during modern firearm season, contrary to popular opinion.

Modern firearm means just that. You can have a scope and jacketed bullets. IE; Modern firearm. Muzzleloader season has there own rules. IE; no scope and no jackets.

[Curly]

Right. And that's even true if you use a muzzleloader during modern firearm season, contrary to popular opinion.

Modern firearm means just that. You can have a scope and jacketed bullets. IE; Modern firearm. Muzzleloader season has there own rules. IE; no scope and no jackets.

Nope.  In this state modern firearm does not mean modern when you choose to use blackpowder rifles.  It is crazy, but the subject has been beat to death on hear and the RCW is fairly clear that when using a muzzleloader you have to follow the muzzleloader requirements even if you are hunting during modern firearm season.

[PA BEN]

I see you point, I should read before I speak
Hunting Method:
Modern firearm deer tag
hunters may use rifle,
handgun, shotgun, archery, or
muzzleloader, but only during
modern firearm seasons.
Modern firearm, archery, and
muzzleloader equipment must
meet equipment regulations on
page 67.
The regs only say, HUNTING WITH A MUZZLE LOADER not muzzleloader season. I know with Archery you can use Expandable brodheads on all non-biggame.