ford fans beware...the following post may upset you

[MDGrand]

Nice soap box comment.

Comming from the guy who has a Gyno quote on his tag.. your "ignorant" comment has no base. Glad I got set strait by a random expert on the internet who I don't even know. Can't tell you how much I will laying awake at night mulling over that one.

[FC]

All that being said, I will leave the expertise up to you as you seem to be a ASE mechanic .. Or are you? 

Why yes I am!

Your argument makes little sense. Current gen GM motors have as much in common with current gen Ford, Dodge etc as they do with the old 350. By your logic one could say that current Ford truck motors are still really just old 221's with a few extra gadgets attached to them.

The 221 BTW was introduced in 1932, Ford's first flathead V8. Oh yeah and the Wright brothers basically nailed the whole airplane thing too, Boeing likes to take credit for that 777 but it's really just a copy of the Wright brothers old plane with a few gadgets attached . 

[chongo469]

      Sorry, I know its a big word, but its Gynecologist.....

[PolarBear]

THis moronic thread is still going?  It seems we have a bunch of newbies that need to grow up.

[yakimarcher]

Found On Retards Driveway

[ribka]

Just to be clear, I still haven't heard anybody contest the fact that the Chevy trucks in the test videos, have better braking, faster acceleration, firmer frames, less bumper sag, etc... than the fords? just personal preferance talk really...I love how people say "ford doesn't sell the most trucks every year for no reason", no, there's a reason, same reason mcdonalds sells there cheap food more than anybody else, cheap prices. There is however a reason why Silverado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year! 

Motor Trend ratings lost all credibility with that rating. They rated the Chevy Volt number one too.Of course it had nothing to do with the Obama administration spending billions of our tax dollars bailing them out. The GM auto unions in retrun donated millions of union dues to the Dem party and Obama. GM uses our money to bulid plants in Mexico and China. What a racket!

No thanks

Every GM product I have owned has been unreliable.

Just had a 2010 chevy work truck crap out with less than 15,000 miles. Transmission is shot. Replaced under warranty

All my Toyotas have ran over 200,000 miles with only oil changes and brakes replaced. ZERO problems. All bulit here in the US with non Dem labor

See your confused, you are saying that because our tax dollars went into restructuring GM, the Chevy Volt isn't an amazing vehicle, and shouldn't be motor trend car of the year? I could be wrong, but i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I dought company financing goes into how they choose their winners. and your completely missing the point on the mcdonalds comment, or avoiding it anyways, it's not because they are quality, it's because they're cheap, if you think that mcdonalds makes a quality product, jokes on you. And the fact that you think GM used our money to build plants in mexico and china is cute at best, definately laughable. GM doesn't have factories in china first off, second off, all the parts they build in mexico and send up for assembly have been being built there since way before the bailout, just like ford does, please be informed instead of making up points.

So a tax payer funded bail out ( theft) of our money to give to corporations ( Gm) that in trun give them money ( forced union dues) to the corrupt Dem party is a good thing for me as a consumer.
Sound slike money laundering to me.

They needed a bail -out because they built a crappy product and could not compete on a fiar playing field.

The Price Of A Bailout? Every GM Car Sold Will Cost Taxpayers $12,000 Through 2011
 www.ntu.org


The American taxpayer has put up $12,200 for every General Motors vehicle sold through the beginning of 2011, and $7,600 for every Chrysler vehicle sold as well, according to a new report issued by the 362,000-member National Taxpayers Union (NTU).

The report, The Auto Bailout - A Taxpayer Quagmire, authored by NTU Adjunct Scholar Thomas D. Hopkins, Professor of Economics at the University of Rochester, does the math on what the government bailout of the auto industry - including General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - actually means to American taxpayers, including how much each taxpayer has contributed to the auto industry since December 2008 and how much each vehicle is costing us.

"Every time someone in your neighborhood drives home in a shiny new Chevy Silverado, remember that it cost American taxpayers more than $12,000," said Pete Sepp, NTU Vice President for Policy and Communications. "Between this and GM's plan to payback their bailout debt with other taxpayer funds, I wonder if all those Americans without work right now could think of any better ways to spend that money. This is a play out of the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme playbook, and would be the equivalent of paying your Master Card bill with your Visa."

The study found that the average American taxpaying family has invested roughly $800 in the auto bailouts so far. Moreover, the study found, the government support poured into General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - the financing subsidiary that supports sales at both - now stands at a towering $78.9 billion. Given that figure, and an estimate of how many vehicles GM and Chrysler will sell through the end of 2010, the study finds that each vehicle one of the bailed-out companies sells costs taxpayers $10,700.

Finally, breaking down the costs by company, the study reports that every Chrysler vehicle sold costs taxpayers $7,600, and every GM vehicle sold costs taxpayers $12,200.

The research is based upon a November study released by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), entitled "Continued Stewardship Needed as Treasury Develops Strategies for Monitoring and Divesting Financial Interests in Chrysler and GM," a follow-up report on the "Troubled Asset Relief Program," as well as statements and reports released from the U.S. Treasury.

Additional Findings Include:

GMAC receives government guarantees not available to most private firms. Coincidentally, these are the same private firms that are forced to compete with GMAC's taxpayer-assisted bank, Ally Bank. These guarantees save GMAC about $500 million annually in interest costs.
During the first ten months of 2009, GM and Chrysler sales fell further than other major auto producers, down 33.4 percent and 38.9 percent, respectively.
While the prospect of repayment of GM and Chrysler loans might be expected, after bankruptcy the vast majority of the bailout funds are no longer legal obligations of the newly-structured GM and Chrysler.
If Americans are to believe public officials' claims that the government will eventually reprivatize the auto industry, the necessity of a thoughtful exit plan is essential. However, at this time no such plan exists, making it likely that the Treasury will not recover its investment.
"[T]he bailout has created moral hazard problems, inadvertently handicapping the progress of stronger, non-subsidized producers," Professor Hopkins concluded. "The problems extend beyond just the auto industry, as favored status for one financial company and its bank necessarily complicates prospects for non-subsidized rivals. The time has come to stop such bailouts, and in an orderly way, to seek at least some recovery for taxpayers."

[longknife]

Its funny to watch the pot get sturred! FORD! :tung:LOL

[Ironhead]

Believe it or not............
The USS Nimitz got hung up on a sandbar near the Everett boat launch. The Admiral, who shall remain nameless called me
knowing I had a Ford Powerstroke to come down and give them a hand. How could I refuse the US Navy, I pulled down to the launch and a smaller Navy boat dropped one of those itty bitty anchor chains over my hitch. It didn't take long and I had the boat off the bar. True story.............Really

[Curly]

 

[rtspring]

FORD,DODGE,CHEVY, HORSE DRAWN WAGON, SMALL DONKEY

If its headed up somehere to go hunting I am sure all of us would get in and shut the H*** up...

JUST SAYIN.

[jjhunter]

As a Conning Officer who has parked a United States Naval Warship at NAVSTA EV, I call bullsh*t.  There are no sandbars on the approach...

Note:  I am not disclaiming the ability of Ironhead's powerstroke to yank the NIMITZ off of a sand bar....

[383man]

Just to be clear, I still haven't heard anybody contest the fact that the Chevy trucks in the test videos, have better braking, faster acceleration, firmer frames, less bumper sag, etc... than the fords? just personal preferance talk really...I love how people say "ford doesn't sell the most trucks every year for no reason", no, there's a reason, same reason mcdonalds sells there cheap food more than anybody else, cheap prices. There is however a reason why Silverado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year! 

Motor Trend ratings lost all credibility with that rating. They rated the Chevy Volt number one too.Of course it had nothing to do with the Obama administration spending billions of our tax dollars bailing them out. The GM auto unions in retrun donated millions of union dues to the Dem party and Obama. GM uses our money to bulid plants in Mexico and China. What a racket!

No thanks

Every GM product I have owned has been unreliable.

Just had a 2010 chevy work truck crap out with less than 15,000 miles. Transmission is shot. Replaced under warranty

All my Toyotas have ran over 200,000 miles with only oil changes and brakes replaced. ZERO problems. All bulit here in the US with non Dem labor

See your confused, you are saying that because our tax dollars went into restructuring GM, the Chevy Volt isn't an amazing vehicle, and shouldn't be motor trend car of the year? I could be wrong, but i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I dought company financing goes into how they choose their winners. and your completely missing the point on the mcdonalds comment, or avoiding it anyways, it's not because they are quality, it's because they're cheap, if you think that mcdonalds makes a quality product, jokes on you. And the fact that you think GM used our money to build plants in mexico and china is cute at best, definately laughable. GM doesn't have factories in china first off, second off, all the parts they build in mexico and send up for assembly have been being built there since way before the bailout, just like ford does, please be informed instead of making up points.

So a tax payer funded bail out ( theft) of our money to give to corporations ( Gm) that in trun give them money ( forced union dues) to the corrupt Dem party is a good thing for me as a consumer.
Sound slike money laundering to me.

They needed a bail -out because they built a crappy product and could not compete on a fiar playing field.

The Price Of A Bailout? Every GM Car Sold Will Cost Taxpayers $12,000 Through 2011
 www.ntu.org


The American taxpayer has put up $12,200 for every General Motors vehicle sold through the beginning of 2011, and $7,600 for every Chrysler vehicle sold as well, according to a new report issued by the 362,000-member National Taxpayers Union (NTU).

The report, The Auto Bailout - A Taxpayer Quagmire, authored by NTU Adjunct Scholar Thomas D. Hopkins, Professor of Economics at the University of Rochester, does the math on what the government bailout of the auto industry - including General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - actually means to American taxpayers, including how much each taxpayer has contributed to the auto industry since December 2008 and how much each vehicle is costing us.

"Every time someone in your neighborhood drives home in a shiny new Chevy Silverado, remember that it cost American taxpayers more than $12,000," said Pete Sepp, NTU Vice President for Policy and Communications. "Between this and GM's plan to payback their bailout debt with other taxpayer funds, I wonder if all those Americans without work right now could think of any better ways to spend that money. This is a play out of the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme playbook, and would be the equivalent of paying your Master Card bill with your Visa."

The study found that the average American taxpaying family has invested roughly $800 in the auto bailouts so far. Moreover, the study found, the government support poured into General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - the financing subsidiary that supports sales at both - now stands at a towering $78.9 billion. Given that figure, and an estimate of how many vehicles GM and Chrysler will sell through the end of 2010, the study finds that each vehicle one of the bailed-out companies sells costs taxpayers $10,700.

Finally, breaking down the costs by company, the study reports that every Chrysler vehicle sold costs taxpayers $7,600, and every GM vehicle sold costs taxpayers $12,200.

The research is based upon a November study released by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), entitled "Continued Stewardship Needed as Treasury Develops Strategies for Monitoring and Divesting Financial Interests in Chrysler and GM," a follow-up report on the "Troubled Asset Relief Program," as well as statements and reports released from the U.S. Treasury.

Additional Findings Include:

GMAC receives government guarantees not available to most private firms. Coincidentally, these are the same private firms that are forced to compete with GMAC's taxpayer-assisted bank, Ally Bank. These guarantees save GMAC about $500 million annually in interest costs.
During the first ten months of 2009, GM and Chrysler sales fell further than other major auto producers, down 33.4 percent and 38.9 percent, respectively.
While the prospect of repayment of GM and Chrysler loans might be expected, after bankruptcy the vast majority of the bailout funds are no longer legal obligations of the newly-structured GM and Chrysler.
If Americans are to believe public officials' claims that the government will eventually reprivatize the auto industry, the necessity of a thoughtful exit plan is essential. However, at this time no such plan exists, making it likely that the Treasury will not recover its investment.
"[T]he bailout has created moral hazard problems, inadvertently handicapping the progress of stronger, non-subsidized producers," Professor Hopkins concluded. "The problems extend beyond just the auto industry, as favored status for one financial company and its bank necessarily complicates prospects for non-subsidized rivals. The time has come to stop such bailouts, and in an orderly way, to seek at least some recovery for taxpayers."

You sir, are a wonderful example of a straw man, see The "Straw Man" Fallacy

you did not refute any of my points, all you stated was what everyone already knows, that GM got into trouble, took some help from us, and are working hard at paying it back, the government only owns 26% of GM now down from 61% before, due to them selling back the shares that were bought for the bailout. the remaining 26% will be sold back in the next year when share prices rise enough as to not lose money on them. that being said, what does any of this have to do with our original conversation about the fact that silverado and volt trucks and cars are the motor trend trucks/cars of the year? please re-read my previous post, and respond to the actual conversation, or not at all, it's silly to argue with someone about apples and all their talking about is oranges...

[ribka]

Just to be clear, I still haven't heard anybody contest the fact that the Chevy trucks in the test videos, have better braking, faster acceleration, firmer frames, less bumper sag, etc... than the fords? just personal preferance talk really...I love how people say "ford doesn't sell the most trucks every year for no reason", no, there's a reason, same reason mcdonalds sells there cheap food more than anybody else, cheap prices. There is however a reason why Silverado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year! 

Motor Trend ratings lost all credibility with that rating. They rated the Chevy Volt number one too.Of course it had nothing to do with the Obama administration spending billions of our tax dollars bailing them out. The GM auto unions in retrun donated millions of union dues to the Dem party and Obama. GM uses our money to bulid plants in Mexico and China. What a racket!

No thanks

Every GM product I have owned has been unreliable.

Just had a 2010 chevy work truck crap out with less than 15,000 miles. Transmission is shot. Replaced under warranty

All my Toyotas have ran over 200,000 miles with only oil changes and brakes replaced. ZERO problems. All bulit here in the US with non Dem labor

See your confused, you are saying that because our tax dollars went into restructuring GM, the Chevy Volt isn't an amazing vehicle, and shouldn't be motor trend car of the year? I could be wrong, but i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I dought company financing goes into how they choose their winners. and your completely missing the point on the mcdonalds comment, or avoiding it anyways, it's not because they are quality, it's because they're cheap, if you think that mcdonalds makes a quality product, jokes on you. And the fact that you think GM used our money to build plants in mexico and china is cute at best, definately laughable. GM doesn't have factories in china first off, second off, all the parts they build in mexico and send up for assembly have been being built there since way before the bailout, just like ford does, please be informed instead of making up points.

So a tax payer funded bail out ( theft) of our money to give to corporations ( Gm) that in trun give them money ( forced union dues) to the corrupt Dem party is a good thing for me as a consumer.
Sound slike money laundering to me.

They needed a bail -out because they built a crappy product and could not compete on a fiar playing field.

The Price Of A Bailout? Every GM Car Sold Will Cost Taxpayers $12,000 Through 2011
 www.ntu.org


The American taxpayer has put up $12,200 for every General Motors vehicle sold through the beginning of 2011, and $7,600 for every Chrysler vehicle sold as well, according to a new report issued by the 362,000-member National Taxpayers Union (NTU).

The report, The Auto Bailout - A Taxpayer Quagmire, authored by NTU Adjunct Scholar Thomas D. Hopkins, Professor of Economics at the University of Rochester, does the math on what the government bailout of the auto industry - including General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - actually means to American taxpayers, including how much each taxpayer has contributed to the auto industry since December 2008 and how much each vehicle is costing us.

"Every time someone in your neighborhood drives home in a shiny new Chevy Silverado, remember that it cost American taxpayers more than $12,000," said Pete Sepp, NTU Vice President for Policy and Communications. "Between this and GM's plan to payback their bailout debt with other taxpayer funds, I wonder if all those Americans without work right now could think of any better ways to spend that money. This is a play out of the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme playbook, and would be the equivalent of paying your Master Card bill with your Visa."

The study found that the average American taxpaying family has invested roughly $800 in the auto bailouts so far. Moreover, the study found, the government support poured into General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - the financing subsidiary that supports sales at both - now stands at a towering $78.9 billion. Given that figure, and an estimate of how many vehicles GM and Chrysler will sell through the end of 2010, the study finds that each vehicle one of the bailed-out companies sells costs taxpayers $10,700.

Finally, breaking down the costs by company, the study reports that every Chrysler vehicle sold costs taxpayers $7,600, and every GM vehicle sold costs taxpayers $12,200.

The research is based upon a November study released by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), entitled "Continued Stewardship Needed as Treasury Develops Strategies for Monitoring and Divesting Financial Interests in Chrysler and GM," a follow-up report on the "Troubled Asset Relief Program," as well as statements and reports released from the U.S. Treasury.

Additional Findings Include:

GMAC receives government guarantees not available to most private firms. Coincidentally, these are the same private firms that are forced to compete with GMAC's taxpayer-assisted bank, Ally Bank. These guarantees save GMAC about $500 million annually in interest costs.
During the first ten months of 2009, GM and Chrysler sales fell further than other major auto producers, down 33.4 percent and 38.9 percent, respectively.
While the prospect of repayment of GM and Chrysler loans might be expected, after bankruptcy the vast majority of the bailout funds are no longer legal obligations of the newly-structured GM and Chrysler.
If Americans are to believe public officials' claims that the government will eventually reprivatize the auto industry, the necessity of a thoughtful exit plan is essential. However, at this time no such plan exists, making it likely that the Treasury will not recover its investment.
"[T]he bailout has created moral hazard problems, inadvertently handicapping the progress of stronger, non-subsidized producers," Professor Hopkins concluded. "The problems extend beyond just the auto industry, as favored status for one financial company and its bank necessarily complicates prospects for non-subsidized rivals. The time has come to stop such bailouts, and in an orderly way, to seek at least some recovery for taxpayers."

You sir, are a wonderful example of a straw man, see The "Straw Man" Fallacy

you did not refute any of my points, all you stated was what everyone already knows, that GM got into trouble, took some help from us, and are working hard at paying it back, the government only owns 26% of GM now down from 61% before, due to them selling back the shares that were bought for the bailout. the remaining 26% will be sold back in the next year when share prices rise enough as to not lose money on them. that being said, what does any of this have to do with our original conversation about the fact that silverado and volt trucks and cars are the motor trend trucks/cars of the year? please re-read my previous post, and respond to the actual conversation, or not at all, it's silly to argue with someone about apples and all their talking about is oranges...

A Chevy Volt, car of the year, gets less gas milage than my 1981 VW Rabbit and it costs over $40,000. What a scam. Did you buy one?

Why was GM bailed out? Because the UAW give sthe Dems million sin union dues each year. Plain and simple truth!!!

How a guy can go on a fishing and hunting web site and brag about their GM product is beyond my comprehension.

Still waiting for my check from GM. And they need to pay pay me interest for the tax payer loan too.

Interesting that all of the stockholders of GM stock were screwed in this deal and lost tens of millions of dollars.

GM vehicles are manufacture by the corrupt UAW union. The UAW forces their members to pay mandatory  union dues and gives their dues in the form of political  contributions to the Dem Party. Millions of dollars a year.

Now many in the Dem Party want to outlaw firearms and ban hunting. They are the same ones behind the introduction of wolves so they can shut down hunting. No deer elk moose- no hunting.

How sportsmen  can convince themselves this a good thing is beyond my comprehension.

http://visiontoamerica.org/21/obama-to-sell-gm-stock-at-huge-loss-to-taxpayers/

You must just luv Obumbles and want him re-elected

I'll stick with non-union American made Toyotas

[longknife]

Chebby and Ford will be the start of the second civil war .... GO FORD!

[383man]

Just to be clear, I still haven't heard anybody contest the fact that the Chevy trucks in the test videos, have better braking, faster acceleration, firmer frames, less bumper sag, etc... than the fords? just personal preferance talk really...I love how people say "ford doesn't sell the most trucks every year for no reason", no, there's a reason, same reason mcdonalds sells there cheap food more than anybody else, cheap prices. There is however a reason why Silverado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year! 

Motor Trend ratings lost all credibility with that rating. They rated the Chevy Volt number one too.Of course it had nothing to do with the Obama administration spending billions of our tax dollars bailing them out. The GM auto unions in retrun donated millions of union dues to the Dem party and Obama. GM uses our money to bulid plants in Mexico and China. What a racket!

No thanks

Every GM product I have owned has been unreliable.

Just had a 2010 chevy work truck crap out with less than 15,000 miles. Transmission is shot. Replaced under warranty

All my Toyotas have ran over 200,000 miles with only oil changes and brakes replaced. ZERO problems. All bulit here in the US with non Dem labor

See your confused, you are saying that because our tax dollars went into restructuring GM, the Chevy Volt isn't an amazing vehicle, and shouldn't be motor trend car of the year? I could be wrong, but i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I dought company financing goes into how they choose their winners. and your completely missing the point on the mcdonalds comment, or avoiding it anyways, it's not because they are quality, it's because they're cheap, if you think that mcdonalds makes a quality product, jokes on you. And the fact that you think GM used our money to build plants in mexico and china is cute at best, definately laughable. GM doesn't have factories in china first off, second off, all the parts they build in mexico and send up for assembly have been being built there since way before the bailout, just like ford does, please be informed instead of making up points.

So a tax payer funded bail out ( theft) of our money to give to corporations ( Gm) that in trun give them money ( forced union dues) to the corrupt Dem party is a good thing for me as a consumer.
Sound slike money laundering to me.

They needed a bail -out because they built a crappy product and could not compete on a fiar playing field.

The Price Of A Bailout? Every GM Car Sold Will Cost Taxpayers $12,000 Through 2011
 www.ntu.org


The American taxpayer has put up $12,200 for every General Motors vehicle sold through the beginning of 2011, and $7,600 for every Chrysler vehicle sold as well, according to a new report issued by the 362,000-member National Taxpayers Union (NTU).

The report, The Auto Bailout - A Taxpayer Quagmire, authored by NTU Adjunct Scholar Thomas D. Hopkins, Professor of Economics at the University of Rochester, does the math on what the government bailout of the auto industry - including General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - actually means to American taxpayers, including how much each taxpayer has contributed to the auto industry since December 2008 and how much each vehicle is costing us.

"Every time someone in your neighborhood drives home in a shiny new Chevy Silverado, remember that it cost American taxpayers more than $12,000," said Pete Sepp, NTU Vice President for Policy and Communications. "Between this and GM's plan to payback their bailout debt with other taxpayer funds, I wonder if all those Americans without work right now could think of any better ways to spend that money. This is a play out of the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme playbook, and would be the equivalent of paying your Master Card bill with your Visa."

The study found that the average American taxpaying family has invested roughly $800 in the auto bailouts so far. Moreover, the study found, the government support poured into General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - the financing subsidiary that supports sales at both - now stands at a towering $78.9 billion. Given that figure, and an estimate of how many vehicles GM and Chrysler will sell through the end of 2010, the study finds that each vehicle one of the bailed-out companies sells costs taxpayers $10,700.

Finally, breaking down the costs by company, the study reports that every Chrysler vehicle sold costs taxpayers $7,600, and every GM vehicle sold costs taxpayers $12,200.

The research is based upon a November study released by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), entitled "Continued Stewardship Needed as Treasury Develops Strategies for Monitoring and Divesting Financial Interests in Chrysler and GM," a follow-up report on the "Troubled Asset Relief Program," as well as statements and reports released from the U.S. Treasury.

Additional Findings Include:

GMAC receives government guarantees not available to most private firms. Coincidentally, these are the same private firms that are forced to compete with GMAC's taxpayer-assisted bank, Ally Bank. These guarantees save GMAC about $500 million annually in interest costs.
During the first ten months of 2009, GM and Chrysler sales fell further than other major auto producers, down 33.4 percent and 38.9 percent, respectively.
While the prospect of repayment of GM and Chrysler loans might be expected, after bankruptcy the vast majority of the bailout funds are no longer legal obligations of the newly-structured GM and Chrysler.
If Americans are to believe public officials' claims that the government will eventually reprivatize the auto industry, the necessity of a thoughtful exit plan is essential. However, at this time no such plan exists, making it likely that the Treasury will not recover its investment.
"[T]he bailout has created moral hazard problems, inadvertently handicapping the progress of stronger, non-subsidized producers," Professor Hopkins concluded. "The problems extend beyond just the auto industry, as favored status for one financial company and its bank necessarily complicates prospects for non-subsidized rivals. The time has come to stop such bailouts, and in an orderly way, to seek at least some recovery for taxpayers."

You sir, are a wonderful example of a straw man, see The "Straw Man" Fallacy

you did not refute any of my points, all you stated was what everyone already knows, that GM got into trouble, took some help from us, and are working hard at paying it back, the government only owns 26% of GM now down from 61% before, due to them selling back the shares that were bought for the bailout. the remaining 26% will be sold back in the next year when share prices rise enough as to not lose money on them. that being said, what does any of this have to do with our original conversation about the fact that silverado and volt trucks and cars are the motor trend trucks/cars of the year? please re-read my previous post, and respond to the actual conversation, or not at all, it's silly to argue with someone about apples and all their talking about is oranges...

A Chevy Volt, car of the year, gets less gas milage than my 1981 VW Rabbit and it costs over $40,000. What a scam. Did you buy one?

Why was GM bailed out? Because the UAW give sthe Dems million sin union dues each year. Plain and simple truth!!!

How a guy can go on a fishing and hunting web site and brag about their GM product is beyond my comprehension.

Still waiting for my check from GM. And they need to pay pay me interest for the tax payer loan too.

Interesting that all of the stockholders of GM stock were screwed in this deal and lost tens of millions of dollars.

GM vehicles are manufacture by the corrupt UAW union. The UAW forces their members to pay mandatory  union dues and gives their dues in the form of political  contributions to the Dem Party. Millions of dollars a year.

Now many in the Dem Party want to outlaw firearms and ban hunting. They are the same ones behind the introduction of wolves so they can shut down hunting. No deer elk moose- no hunting.

How sportsmen  can convince themselves this a good thing is beyond my comprehension.

http://visiontoamerica.org/21/obama-to-sell-gm-stock-at-huge-loss-to-taxpayers/

You must just luv Obumbles and want him re-elected

I'll stick with non-union American made Toyotas

I believe were done here, I am a conservative, I do not like obama, nor do I want him re-elected, but do I hate gm because they are unionized? no, by that logic you hate all teachers because they are unionized, i guess you hate nurses too, get a grip on reality man. and the volt gets 50mpg on straight gas, but the first 40miles is all electric, so really, on a average day, you consume no gas, no I do not own one, but I do think the technology is amazing. your arguments are typical I hate unions banter, I'm not a fan either, but GM isn't benifiting from being a union, if you knew how unions worked you'd know that it cost companies more money when their employees go union, just stop getting it confused, you can get all political if you want, but none of that means anything about the vehicles themselves.