Accurracy Question....

[Hornseeker]

So I've done a lot of shooting through the years, but to be honest, I've never "really" sat down on a bench with bags and such and taken the time to shoot THE tightest groups possible. When I reload, I load up several different loads and shoot them at "about" 100 yards and there is usually a combination that shoots the tightest group. Usually with the gun on a bipod on a rickety table or from a prone position on the ground.

This weekend I took my daughters 243 with 7 different loads out.... shooting with the scope on 9X at 100 yards even... bipod on the front and the butt end on a shooting bag, prone. I think the trigger is a little heavy. Anyhow, of the 7 groups, none were really any better than any other. I think the best was a 1.5 inches and the others ranges to 2.25 inches. Do many of you shoot gnats ass groups with that sort of setup or do you have to really bag the rifle in? Also, my reticle is not super fine... at 100 yards, on 9X, I could easily be off a 1/4-1/2 inch on the target... and like I said, I think the trigger pull is too heavy and is causing a little pull on the shot?

My buddies Stag arms AR15 is a dam tack driver though... same shooting setup but with a varmint scope and a NICE trigger, I had 3 bullets touching and with very little effort could keep all groups near an inch or less....

Just curious what kind of groups you guys shoot?

[KillBilly]

what grain bullets were you testing. Most .243s I have encountered won't shoot anything above 90/95 gr. any tighter than you described. Mostly it has to do with the twist. my Tikka in .243 will shoot same hole to 3 touching using Nosler partitions in 90/95 gr.

[pianoman9701]

A gunsmith should take a look at your trigger if it's too tight. At 200 yards with a .30-06, I shoot 1" groups with a bag.

[Alchase]

In reality some rifles do not have the ability to shoot sub-MOA groups......and neither do some people. I am not implying that you can't, just making a statement. You can have someone else try try the rifle with the same loads to eliminate the human factor. While on 9x how is you hold on target? This may sound backwards, but backing off the power on your scope may actually help your point of aim, especially if your crosshairs are wondering.
Most likely though is that the rifle is shooting to it's ability. Not many rifles guarantee sub-MOA out of the box. And most of those that do have been made in the last few years. So 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards is par for the course for a "common" hunting rifle without any accuracy modifications.
 

[Hornseeker]

I'll get it sandbagged down real good and really put some effort into some groups soon and let you guys know. Al...I tried my buddies gun and did the 1" thing with it... so though Im NOT the best shot ever, I do have at least some ability... now, my buddy shot my gun 3 shots and actually tightened the group up to about 1.25... so... there is potential....

Thanks all! By the way, they are the Barnes TSX's which are 85 grains I believe....

[whacker1]

It is also possible that rested on a bipod that you are encountering some specific pressure points where you are no longer free floated.  I quit using my bipod on one gun, because it would apply pressure farther out on the end of the barrel where I was no longer free floated depending on the angle of the shot.  I have since changed stocks on that gun and have not re-encountered that issue.  For comparision, when I hold the same gun off hand or on bags, my grip is further toward the action, so it doesn't encounter the barrel, because the leverage on that stock is different.  It sounds a  little far fetched, but it only takes a fraction of an inch and bipod mounted on the sling stud can put a lot of leverage on the stock.

[JimmyHoffa]

A couple things that I find help are to use the smallest target possible and to use a small sandbag on top of the scope (such that it helps keep the gun on the lower sandbags--less shooter induced movement).

[JackOfAllTrades]

What the rifle/barrel/twist/thickness/trigger pull/consistency of the ammunition/quality of the bullet/powder selection/,  in a combination, without factorying in wind, rest stability, and abilities of the shooter will determine cold bore shot location and subsequent shot impact on target.  Are we talking Handi-Rifle with thin short barrel or a Win model 70?

Take my old 03-A3. slightly sporterised stock. Remington 4 groove barrel on a Springfield action. Circa 1943. I've added a nice Timney trigger set at 2 pounds. 3-9x40 Leupold with slolid rings/mount. Hand loaded, fire formed brass with Nosler Partitions or Balistic tips, with the brass neck bullet runnout at less than .002". She'll shoot just at the edge of moa all day long. I have no idea how many thousands of rounds have gone down the barrel.

A Ruger of mine, factory barrel shooting a wildcat chambering will do the same, but with one bullet in particular, I can't push the high velocity envelope. It just doesn't like that bullet moving fast. Shoots it fine if I drop the speed some 400fps though.

Hand loaded fireformed brass in a Rossi single shot 243 with 90gn Hornady or Remingtons would only shoot 1 1/5" groups no matter how finicky I'd get with building the cartridges. I sold my son's starter rifles. They served their purpose as a lightweight, scoped, short barreled single shot carbine.

If my scoped rifle won't shoot moa, (I don't scope my lever guns), I get rid of it or tune the ammo to get the job done.

[Bob33]

I think bench accuracy is over rated.  Any gun that shoots 1.5 MOA (or even 2 MOA for that matter) off a bench is plenty good enough for 95% of all big game hunting most hunters will ever do.  A gun that consistently shoots into 1.5" at 100 yards should in theory shoot into a 6" circle at 400 yards.  That means the bullet should be within 3" of its intended point. 

What you often find are shooters that can split peas at 100 yards from the bench, but couldn't hit a basketball at 100 yards under field conditions.

More accuracy is always a good thing, but don't get so hung up on it that you lose sleep or throw away perfectly good firearms.   Have fun, and get away from the bench as often as possible.

[MtnMuley]

What you often find are shooters that can split peas at 100 yards from the bench, but couldn't hit a basketball at 100 yards under field conditions.

If that isn't the truth!  Better yet, those with thousands invested that can't find the animal to shoot.

[pianoman9701]

What you often find are shooters that can split peas at 100 yards from the bench, but couldn't hit a basketball at 100 yards under field conditions.

If that isn't the truth!  Better yet, those with thousands invested that can't find the animal to shoot.

Bob's right. 1.5" at 100 yards is enough for a clean kill.

[JackOfAllTrades]

I agree that bench accuracy is over rated. I try to go with 'killzone' accuracy.

If you want to tighten your groups a bit. Sight the cross hairs like this.

[huntnfmly]

I agree that bench accuracy is over rated. I try to go with 'killzone' accuracy. 

[Hornseeker]

I like the idea of that target Jack... thanks.

You know, thats funny, I didn't think about the bipod pressure the stock a different way....I totally forgot to mention. This gun is new (sorta) and WHILE shooting it I thought the  barrel looked a little closer to the wood on one side than the other... took the old dollar bill out of my wallet and yeppers...I could only slide it about 4 inches down... not free floated at all. Will fix that and get it bedded right before I shoot it again....

[MtnMuley]

3/4" black electrical tape cross at a hundred yards seems to work great also, hornseeker.