Washington Wolf politics

[wolfbait]

Calm down there Jack, you will blow a fuse, I just checked and nobody has pissed in my cheerios yet How about you Haus? I thought we were doing pretty good there exchanging info. I suppose you are mostly talking about wacoyote and I. Tell you what after this I will just nod my head and not reply to the him. Hows that. As far as all the people that you just mentioned that we can get help from, they can jump in on this any time they want,  cause it is a fact we need all the help we can get.

[Wazukie]

Wolf management 

[jackelope]

Calm down there Jack, you will blow a fuse, I just checked and nobody has pissed in my cheerios yet How about you Haus? I thought we were doing pretty good there exchanging info. I suppose you are mostly talking about wacoyote and I. Tell you what after this I will just nod my head and not reply to the him. Hows that. As far as all the people that you just mentioned that we can get help from, they can jump in on this any time they want,  cause it is a fact we need all the help we can get.

WB...you do fine as long as folks agree or don't question what you say or what you paste onto the site. As soon as someone challenges(wacoyotehunter or me) what you're saying, you start moaning. It's old. The same goes for the other guys in your camp lately.
p.s. the last thing I'm gonna blow a fuse over is this stuff...
No biologist in his right mind is gonna want to come on here and try to carry on a discussion with you guys.

[mulehunter]

Biologlist in Washington is all FULL OF SH&T about WOLVES. They dont know what they are talking about.  NO point for their EDUCATION to US!  Our BEST ANSWER IS SHOOT THE  WOLVES!

NO Discuss.


Mulehunter   

[wolfbait]

Calm down there Jack, you will blow a fuse, I just checked and nobody has pissed in my cheerios yet How about you Haus? I thought we were doing pretty good there exchanging info. I suppose you are mostly talking about wacoyote and I. Tell you what after this I will just nod my head and not reply to the him. Hows that. As far as all the people that you just mentioned that we can get help from, they can jump in on this any time they want,  cause it is a fact we need all the help we can get.

WB...you do fine as long as folks agree or don't question what you say or what you paste onto the site. As soon as someone challenges(wacoyotehunter or me) what you're saying, you start moaning. It's old. The same goes for the other guys in your camp lately.
p.s. the last thing I'm gonna blow a fuse over is this stuff...
No biologist in his right mind is gonna want to come on here and try to carry on a discussion with you guys.

Well owl be be darned, I never realized that Jack, I always thought that when someone questioned what I put up about wolves or said, well then I slapped up more documented facts. Lets see I think what started this last go around was when I put the article about the wolves already being here in the 80's and 90's. and your "side" called *censored*. so then I showed a gov. article that said the same thing. As far as a biologist coming and "talking to us" quite sure we have talk to a few biologists, maybe not the I love the wolf kind, but they were biologists. Tell you what I will speak to "my side" and see if they will stop the moaning.

[Lowedog]

Here is your problem WB... no rational person will ever take you serious.  Your outlandish claims of conspiracy are not helping your cause.  Your attacks against anyone who questions them are old news.  You are the boy who cries wolf.  The more you type the less credible you are.  

(Edit...the above is my personal opinion, not saying I speak for anyone else)

[wolfbait]

Here is your problem WB... no rational person will ever take you serious.  Your outlandish claims of conspiracy are not helping your cause.  Your attacks against anyone who questions them are old news.  You are the boy who cries wolf.  The more you type the less credible you are.  

(Edit...the above is my personal opinion, not saying I speak for anyone else)

(Edit...the above is my personal opinion, not saying I speak for anyone else)

Well that sure is a relief, you really had me in a panic there for a minute.

[wolfbait]

Your turn wacoyote!

[bearpaw]

The simple fact of the matter is this...
If everyone would lose the friggin attitudes and we start working together...you know, the way we should be, we'd get a helllllllllllllllllll of a lot more accomplished. I don't know if some of you folks know the kind of knowledge and contacts there are at your disposal just with the folks on this site alone. Open your eyes a little and you'll see it. The attitudes and arguing and pissing and moaning that goes on here is ri*censored*diculous!!
There are farmers and ranchers, outfitters, biologists, there are people running trail cams for WDFW and whoever else trying to get the wolves on camera right here on this BB....everything that we need to make a difference right here. If you all could stop pissing in each other's cheerios we'd be a lot further ahead than where we are now.
Open your damn eyes people!

I didn't want to put it as bluntly as this, but this is the absolute truth. We need to show respect for each other and we must make our efforts credible. You can't bark at people and expect them to like you or to help you with anything. Discussion and debate about a subject is a good thing, but when the name calling starts, it really does turn people off. The groups that are making headway in Idaho and Montana are doing it by using credible arguments with photos of the carnage and reduced game counts to back up their claims, they are not doing it with name calling.

Jackelope I think it's a good thing you stated the obvious as bluntly as you did. Maybe we can all think about this a bit and find a way to help each other rather than using all the name calling which is really hurting the effort to get reasonable wolf management in Washington.

It's not only on this forum that this is occurring, I see it in some of the email I get from all over the west. I have had to step back and ask myself which people are helping, and which people are actually hurting the effort to get reasonable wolf management. I guess this is just another good example of why the greennies are winning.

We all need to forget the little differences in opinion, we need to offer each of our help toward the greater cause of getting reasonable wolf management. We can only do this if we quit bickering amoungst ourselves.

[Magnum_Willys]

If a pro-hunting, redneck, conservative state like Idaho couldn't politically stop the wolves from already killing off more than half their elk - guess whats in store for the ultra-liberal state of Washington ?  Its over folks.  Don't know how to plan for a hunting future in this state.  Start saving $ for out-of-state hunts in wolf-managed areas I guess.  Liberals figured out they don't have to try to outlaw hunting - they just have to get rid of all the animals and hunters will dissapear !  Wolves are their perfect tool to do it.  Say goodnight Gracie. 

[wolfbait]

I know that the people who object to WB rants on this subject have provided few facts/studies that run counter to his argument...

I assume that I am lumped into this group. I think I should try to make it clear where at least I stand on this. I don't know where the rest of this "group" lies but here's where I stand.

I don't object to what Wolfbait says. I respect what he says and appreciate all the info he posts...really I do...he's right smack in the middle of ground zero wolf country. The problem that I have with all of this is the processes kind of...If you watch what people say on here regarding wolf sightings, most go un-reported. We need to report them, regardless of how we feel the WDFW or the Feds are going to handle it. This is the only way we will move towards delisting and management at a state level. The more we get reported and the more we get confirmed, the sooner we will be able to manage them on a state level. I know it's not the popular route, but at this point it's the only route. This is what I try to push...if folks see a wolf, report it. If nothing gets done about it, keep track of who you spoke to and go over their head if you don't get any follow up from it.

I agree with you jack everyone should report wolf sightings regardless of what they do with the info. My question is why do the wolves need to be DNA confirmed now and they didn't have to be in the 80's and 90's? After all wolves inter breed with coyotes etc. Is the DNA testing to prove that these wolves are Canadian wolves? Should it matter where the wolves came from? Does the wolf recovery have to have Canadian wolves in order for it to be a recovery? Surely the wolves back in the 80's and 90's must have been wolves.

[bearpaw]

If a pro-hunting, redneck, conservative state like Idaho couldn't politically stop the wolves from already killing off more than half their elk - guess whats in store for the ultra-liberal state of Washington ?  Its over folks.  Don't know how to plan for a hunting future in this state.  Start saving $ for out-of-state hunts in wolf-managed areas I guess.  Liberals figured out they don't have to try to outlaw hunting - they just have to get rid of all the animals and hunters will dissapear !  Wolves are their perfect tool to do it.  Say goodnight Gracie. 

Your logic is absolutely correct. However, let me ask you this:  Are you willing to let it all go without a fight?

How we each answer this question will determine what really happens. Idaho and Montana are both making positive headway, we can use what they have learned to make a difference here in Washington. If you really want to throw in the towel on hunting so be it, but I intend to fight this to the bitter end, I hope it will be with you and thousands of others help.

[Ray]

I'd like to think that my stance on wolves is fairly neutral.

When I look at what the federal government has permitted to happen to the elk herds in Idaho and other areas where wolves have been either reintroduced or where the federal government has not permitted management at the state level, my first instinct on the matter is to not trust the feds.

What seems evident is that the federal government doesn't seem to have a handle on how many wolves there are in the Okanagon or anywhere else which I have read about. The result is an utter destruction of elk and deer numbers when wolf management is non existent. What else seems obvious is the lowballing of wolf populations. Now that might not be attributable to a conspiracy theory but it seems factual that this low balling of wolf population counts is taking place and some here expect it to be done. Including some stating that they approve of this openly. That's ok, and I do not personally criticize those people. However there are consequences for matters such as this.

I believe the feds need to stay out of the way of local management issues with regards to wolves and avoid introducing any species which are not native. The wolf is not an endangered species in my book. They thrive quite well in Canada , Alaska and many parts of the northern portions of the lower 48 states. When I take that into consideration it is evident to me that states should have the full authority to manage them how they please. Specifically without federal oversight.

Now if we are aware that most estimates on wolf populations are very inaccurate and biolgists tend to make their estimates on the lower end of the spectrum then we should demand better management,  more public exposure into the process and responsibility from the state and federal agencies. The officers and biologists of these agencies will continue to lose credibility and public trust the more they whitewash evidence. Evidence doesn't mean it is only valid when it is obtained by the government. Human witnesses can provide credible evidence by personal accounts. You don't always need a photo and a carcass. If the government employees continue to discard personal accounts as they have been , then they are asking for a struggle with the citizens and are responsible for some of the negative reaction they are dealing with on this matter.

The critics who want more accountability from the government would be best served being somewhat aware of how they send their messages by considering how it will be received. Most of this can be achieved by careful review on how wolf management proponent articles and criticism is written. Yelling matches back and forth are not very productive. Think results. Frankly I think that one or several of you management proponents should create a well written web log and detail encounters and evidence in Washington as well as provide a space to share thoughtful and intelligent opinion. It should probably be sprinkled with ideas and reasoning for wolf management. The wolf info pages are a big step in that direction.

I'm not really a hardcare proponent of wolf management in Washington. However I think that there should be more attention on the matter because I don't trust the federal government to get anything half correct.

[wolfbait]

If a pro-hunting, redneck, conservative state like Idaho couldn't politically stop the wolves from already killing off more than half their elk - guess whats in store for the ultra-liberal state of Washington ?  Its over folks.  Don't know how to plan for a hunting future in this state.  Start saving $ for out-of-state hunts in wolf-managed areas I guess.  Liberals figured out they don't have to try to outlaw hunting - they just have to get rid of all the animals and hunters will dissapear !  Wolves are their perfect tool to do it.  Say goodnight Gracie. 

Kind of have to agree with you Magnum, take the Methow Valley in few more years there won't be anything left to hunt, and with wolf sightings throughout the state and no effort to confirm wolf packs, no wolf management plan yet, and how many years before delisting? On the other hand if enough people get involved an fight for honest management maybe not all of Washington will have to end up like the Methow valley. How do we force WDFW to confirm wolf packs? Some folks have suggested putting together a wolf team to go through Washington and document wolf packs and then go public, maybe shame WDFW into being honest. I discussed this with a WDFW employee, her reply was that all wolf packs have to be DNA tested in order to confirm and WDFW does no have the man power to chase down wolf packs on someones say so.

[wolfbait]

The WA wolf plan could come out with 6 bps and it wouldn't matter if WDFW will not confirm.